Proxy body dysmorphia!

[Donostiera]

Is it possible to have body dysmorphia for someone else? That's kind of a joke but I have an issue in that my husband genuinely thinks I am fat. I'm 43, my BMI is 22.5, most of my clothes are size 10. I have some flabby bits, wobbly thighs (always have had) nice tits (ditto). One DD aged 12. My husband is 60 and our sex life is less than it used to be. Has been for about 4 years. DH was having erection problems and prescribed viagra (I guess he was 'brave' to go to the doctor) but the implication about all of this seems to be that it is ME becoming less attractive that causes the issue. This conversation comes out every now and then, causes a lot of upset, then gets put back in its box. I've never been anything other than kind about the ED, which obviously isn't great for anyone but with the blue pills things are 'fine' in that department. But the idea that it's my fault just seems so bizarre - he has told me straight that I'm not attractive because I'm fat. Btw I weigh a little less than I did when we got married 16 years ago and about 8 kg less than a year or so before we got married (we've been together 20 years). I guess it is less nubile and firm flesh though. The conversation happens once or twice a year and then he is sensible enough to back off because he does genuinely love me and I him. It makes me feel both pretty terribly miserable and angry - it normally gets precipitated by him criticising me for eating too much (hold back on that beef; that pasta will go straight to your hips - low level carping). I really love food and wine and am a good cook, very interested in different types of food. It's a hobby / interest. We've always shared that interest but for him it seems less now - he says his appetite has decreased and in this (and some other areas) I see him more reluctant to try new things these days. So anyway, he calls me fat and wants me to restrict what I eat or to exercise more - solely in order to meet his aesthetic standard. I'm very healthy and quite fit, mostly from running around a massive garden / housed / DIY project, walking, swimming, yoga, not a gym bunny by any means but healthy. And it just makes me furious that he makes me feel guilty for not conforming to this standard he has, which seems to have changed over the years. Why should I do stuff I don't want to (work out, not eat pies) for an aesthetic ideal I don't share? But he says that not taking his wishes seriously is disrespectful. He also concedes that his view of my / women's bodies is probably not correct in an absolute sense but that he can't help it so it would be kinder of me to try to 'make an effort'. As I know what MN is like I'll just say his idea of porn is chainsaw videos on YouTube. There's nothing untoward going on there. I do love him very much though he has a tendency to criticise me in other areas, though mostly this one. I run a successful publishing business and am intelligent, but have probably quite typical mother derived self esteem issues that I've worked hard to get over and I really feel that giving in on this 'fat' question - I mean agreeing with his view - would be detrimental. Our daughter is 12 and still a total innocent nymph but one day soon she will become body conscious and also start to fill out. She already notices when he picks on me for 'flab' or 'eating too much butter' and I have taken this up with him. I think he now tries harder not to express this kind of thing in front of her. He's a good man, really. But this is so weird and seemingly intractable without me just deciding to become someone else. I could try to become a gym bunny and to diet but I don't bloody want to. So if I did it would only be for him. He thinks this would be loving and self actualising (or something), I think it would be weird and self-destructive to change for this one reason. I haven't spoken to any friends about it except once by angry drunken (me) WhatsApp chat after a particularly harsh episode. Friend, quite naturally, expressed the view that he was being a twat, hence my not talking to others because I want to protect his 'reputation'. But if he genuinely has this perception I guess it's more complex than twattiness. [sits back; awaits MN verdict of A-grade twattiness]

Your daughter looks at her parents and sees a slim youngish successful mum married to a much older man. She sees the much older man repeatedly tell her slim successful mum that she's fat and greedy and unattractive.

What do you think she's learning about love and relationships?

At 60, neither the ED nor the associated bitterness, anger, dissatisfaction, insecurity (if it could even be called that) are likely to get better, are they?

That means the resulting abuse of you (if we're correct on the reasons for it, as the poster said above; it's projection) is therefore unlikely to go away.

You say he's intelligent yet he's not figured this out himself (?) Maybe he knows why he's doing this but doesn't want to stop, because this narrative makes him feel better. He doesn't care if it hurts you or is unfair to you.

How long are you going to be his whipping boy and scape goat?

He's the one who chose to marry someone nearly young enough to be his daughter at 40; a 23 yr old couldn't be held responsible for the same level of judgement as a 40 yr old; so he's responsible for the dynamic 20 yrs later when he's suffering not atypical ED but he's got an early 40s wife. Why are you now suffering for his decisions at 40 and for his inability to deal with his ED and aging now at 60.

Your starting point for assets division is 50-50, you may get child maintenance if he doesn't keep DD overnight 50-50 or more. You have your own company and would still get a mortgage if you needed one. Maybe you could stay in your house (?)

I don't see him stopping this permanently. There's a reason 50s women, for example, usually have Dads in their 70s; not husbands in their 70s.

Your starting point for assets division is 50-50, you may get child maintenance if he doesn't keep DD overnight 50-50!or more. You gave your own company and would still get a mortgage if you needed one. Maybe you could stay in your house.

This isn't cheering though is it, he could get half her company!

He sounds like an utter prick as others have said. I would assume this is all about age sorry. Did he have a 40ish wife or girlfriend (i.e. his own age) before he found a 20 year old escaping a difficult home life? Maybe 40ish is his cut off for women.

This. Is. Not. Love.

Tbh I'd have massive doubts about the motivations and character of a 40 yr old who picks a 23 yr old as his life partner anyway.

If someone tried to do that to my dd and I couldn't dissuade her, my mind would be thinking along mafia accident lines for the 40 yr old lol.

Your parents were shit parents to allow that and it sounds like he took advantage of your circumstances on that front too. I can't see many 23 yr olds with stable, happy, supportive, well adjusted home situations, and normal social lives and opportunities; choosing a 40 yr old for their life partner.

At 55, you'll still be young ish - he'll be 72 and hitting "elderly". Obviously ppl are different at 72 but many are hitting those elderly years in health, habits, outlook etc.
This is the issue with nearly 20 yr age gaps as ppl get older.

This isn't cheering though is it, he could get half her company!

Depends what assets he's got.

Depends what their total joint assets are.

At least she's got a good job/business and income. And some lending options with it A lot of ppl on here aren't in that position.

I just wouldn’t want him laying a finger on me if he spoke to me like that

*if/when the subject comes up again I will give an ultimatum along the lines you suggested

haven't talked to friends about it because it feels somehow shameful*

Your DD consciously or unconsciously knows what is going on and absorbing the message that a man treating a women in this way is ok

Whereas we, and I honestly think you, too do know that yes, even joshing counts as not ok. How could deliberately causing hurt to anyone ever really be OK.

I'm very sorry OP it's a very great deal for someone to take on board.

This is one of the thinks MN does really well. Starting with a post about 'just one small think' and then dawning awareness of the not ok aspect of this behaviour.

I happen to think that it is possible to draw a line and saw 'next time it happens we are finished'. However, I very strongly think that he will strongly resist your drawing that boundary. And that you can really only credible draw that line once, so strongly advise you to not say it until you really are prepared to follow through.

You may not want to make that level of preparation but that threat will have no impact the second time you find yourself needing to say it except to encourage him to think that if he plays nice and buys you a few thoughtful presents you will give up and let him continue, proving to himself that he is stronger than you.

On average, it takes someone seven times in order to actually get out from under abuse.

This is a lot for you to take on board. Not all abuse is physical. The fact that you find it shameful and don't want to talk to your friends and family about what is happening.

One good move is to tell someone you trust, someone who will resist giving you solutions as we have been tempted to do anonymously here. You might be surprised by their response.

Otherwise, there is no rush for you to make a move. Have a good think about how you are going to handle this information and protect your daughter.

I reread your opening poat because the first time I was so horrified by the fat stuff I didn't take it all in.

I notice you say he's critical 'in other areas' too. It implies to me that he puts you down all the time, in so many ways you have grown used to it only this one is so egregious it stands out. Maybe you believe the other things he says about you; maybe you trust his authority to criticise because he was 40 and you were 23 and he has always seen himself as superior and as a people pleaser with low self esteem you've acceded to that.

Don't bother trying to get him into therapy. Go to therapy yourself and figure out why you think this is what you deserve in life.

He's a bitter, spiteful man afraid of ageing and losing control. If you lost weight it would never be enough, it would never be right because the problem is not you. Oh, and he thinks you should be 'kind' and accommodate what he wants? But he doesn't need to be kind to you, right?

Go to therapy. Recover your self esteem. Don't waste your emotional energy on trying to please a man who will never be satisfied.

My DH is older than the OP's DH and we have roughly the same age difference between us. My DH also suffers from some ED issues, because it's common in older men. He has never for one second suggested it's any failing on my part, never criticised my looks / body (quite the opposite) and, in a nutshell, has never behaved like a twat about it. This is not an age difference problem, it's a being-a-twat problem.

Unfortunately OP, your DH is a twat.

I'm replying to @FinallyHere by way of sign-off at least for now. I think her post captures perfectly why, having opened this discussion and read attentively all your responses, I now need to step away and think about it in real life. If anyone replies later I hope you'll find this post and not think I've just ungratefully vanished. Thank you all again.

Good luck Donostiera, you seem to be a person with so much going for you, I would think hard about how your marriage looks in 5/10 years time.

Yes, but that does not change the fact that age gap relationships throw up issues that may not exist in non age gap relationship.

(You accept the ED for example, another type of person might leave or cheat or want to open the relationship).

Best of luck OP, please think about getting some counselling for yourself to figure out where to go from here.

I would not tolerate these comments from an old man with a gut and a limp dick.

Best of luck @Donostiera, you sound lovely and I wish this problem wasn't part of your life. I hope you can find a way to summon the inner strength you have and force your husband into upping his game and treating you with the complete love and respect you deserve. Unfortunately that can only happen if he has that capacity in him. It's serious shit and it's unfair that you are dealing with it - you didn't choose this.

It’s really not your job to remedy how attractive he finds you. If indeed he does find you unattractive (as opposed to trying to manipulate you in some way with his comments), then he needs to decide whether he wants to be in a relationship with someone he finds unattractive. What’s totally unacceptable is making demands on you to change your appearance (especially in front of your daughter, this would be an absolute deal breaker for me as someone who suffered from an eating disorder as a child). So basically he needs to shut up about it or fuck off.

For your part, I guess you need to decide if you want to be with someone who apparently finds you unattractive and thinks it’s acceptable to criticise your appearance, despite being told how hurtful it is.

The fact that you are much younger than him and not fat makes the situation more bizarre but what you actually look like is not the point. If you were overweight his behaviour would be equally inappropriate, because it’s inconsiderate and unkind.

Well he can fuck off. What an absolute piece of work. I think that he needs a reality check quite frankly.

I'm a year younger than you, and your DH is a year younger than my FIL. When I think about him and the absolute state of him and his brothers and his mates and their old fashioned ideas and baldy heads and crappy dress sense, it is laughable that any of them would be pulling me or my best friend or my sister and not THRILLED about it!

Your husband should be worshiping the ground that you walk on, and you should be telling him that. Why are you even entertaining this nonsense? I know that you're saying that you won't be dieting or whatever, but why aren't you saying I am amazing and smart and hot and brilliant and you are so fucking lucky to have me?

You rightly identify that your self esteem is a bit low and you definitely need to work on that. Maybe couples counselling won't be of any use with someone as abusive as your husband, but counselling on your own may very well be of benefit.

Good luck @Donostiera. Don't put up with this.

Perfectly put.

Bang on again.