Proxy body dysmorphia!

[Donostiera]

Is it possible to have body dysmorphia for someone else? That's kind of a joke but I have an issue in that my husband genuinely thinks I am fat. I'm 43, my BMI is 22.5, most of my clothes are size 10. I have some flabby bits, wobbly thighs (always have had) nice tits (ditto). One DD aged 12. My husband is 60 and our sex life is less than it used to be. Has been for about 4 years. DH was having erection problems and prescribed viagra (I guess he was 'brave' to go to the doctor) but the implication about all of this seems to be that it is ME becoming less attractive that causes the issue. This conversation comes out every now and then, causes a lot of upset, then gets put back in its box. I've never been anything other than kind about the ED, which obviously isn't great for anyone but with the blue pills things are 'fine' in that department. But the idea that it's my fault just seems so bizarre - he has told me straight that I'm not attractive because I'm fat. Btw I weigh a little less than I did when we got married 16 years ago and about 8 kg less than a year or so before we got married (we've been together 20 years). I guess it is less nubile and firm flesh though. The conversation happens once or twice a year and then he is sensible enough to back off because he does genuinely love me and I him. It makes me feel both pretty terribly miserable and angry - it normally gets precipitated by him criticising me for eating too much (hold back on that beef; that pasta will go straight to your hips - low level carping). I really love food and wine and am a good cook, very interested in different types of food. It's a hobby / interest. We've always shared that interest but for him it seems less now - he says his appetite has decreased and in this (and some other areas) I see him more reluctant to try new things these days. So anyway, he calls me fat and wants me to restrict what I eat or to exercise more - solely in order to meet his aesthetic standard. I'm very healthy and quite fit, mostly from running around a massive garden / housed / DIY project, walking, swimming, yoga, not a gym bunny by any means but healthy. And it just makes me furious that he makes me feel guilty for not conforming to this standard he has, which seems to have changed over the years. Why should I do stuff I don't want to (work out, not eat pies) for an aesthetic ideal I don't share? But he says that not taking his wishes seriously is disrespectful. He also concedes that his view of my / women's bodies is probably not correct in an absolute sense but that he can't help it so it would be kinder of me to try to 'make an effort'. As I know what MN is like I'll just say his idea of porn is chainsaw videos on YouTube. There's nothing untoward going on there. I do love him very much though he has a tendency to criticise me in other areas, though mostly this one. I run a successful publishing business and am intelligent, but have probably quite typical mother derived self esteem issues that I've worked hard to get over and I really feel that giving in on this 'fat' question - I mean agreeing with his view - would be detrimental. Our daughter is 12 and still a total innocent nymph but one day soon she will become body conscious and also start to fill out. She already notices when he picks on me for 'flab' or 'eating too much butter' and I have taken this up with him. I think he now tries harder not to express this kind of thing in front of her. He's a good man, really. But this is so weird and seemingly intractable without me just deciding to become someone else. I could try to become a gym bunny and to diet but I don't bloody want to. So if I did it would only be for him. He thinks this would be loving and self actualising (or something), I think it would be weird and self-destructive to change for this one reason. I haven't spoken to any friends about it except once by angry drunken (me) WhatsApp chat after a particularly harsh episode. Friend, quite naturally, expressed the view that he was being a twat, hence my not talking to others because I want to protect his 'reputation'. But if he genuinely has this perception I guess it's more complex than twattiness. [sits back; awaits MN verdict of A-grade twattiness]

This is so abusive- I'm glad that at least your self- esteem seems resilient to it somehow! But as pp have said think of the impact on your daughter hearing this. If you want to stay I'd be setting an iron- clad boundary that he never makes a single comment like this again or you walk

He isn’t a nice man at all. Raise your standards and boot him to the curb.

I think it's awful behaviour really, so hurtful. I do understand mentioning a partners body if they're unhealthily over or underweight but you're not! I do wonder if he's feeling insecure about the ED so deflecting the attention on to you.
You sound a perfectly healthy weight and just completely normal. Why would he want to change that? Can't he appreciate a normal female body?!
You sound like me - BMI of 22, some wobby bits but generally slim and an active lifestyle. My DH is 5 years younger and would never dream of making these comments about my body. We were once discussing weight and BMI and he asked mine. I told him and he said "Well done, very healthy". My DH cares about my health not me trying to sculpt my body in to something more sexually arousing for him.

You think he'd feel grateful to have a wife 17 years his junior. I'd be tempted to make hurtful comments about his aging body and pot belly.

Consider the possibility that he has picked this issue exactly because it is something which will impact OP's self esteem and is not easy to fix.

A win:win for anyone who consciously or unconsciously is abusive.

Ok, magic words - tell him that unless he wants to hear your opinion on his useless dick, saggy balls, pot belly, and ageing face he should shut the fuck up pretty quick. Remind him “people in glass houses…”

Then being pissed off about something else will make him start up again

This quote from one of your posts tells me some PP's have hit the nail on the head, he doesn't think you're fat at all, he's just chosen that particular stick to beat you with. He's literally using it to punish you, to vent his spite and anger about whatever has pissed him off. He could have chosen any number of other things so please put the idea entirely out of your mind that losing weight/denying yourself food you want would solve this, your weight (or even his perception of it) is not the issue here. He's very deliberately picking out something to hurt you with and using it as a weapon to knock you down for his own perverse pleasure.

Just wanted to say thank you again for all the responses - everything is helpful, including the outrage which I'm using to bolster my own resolution not to believe his nonsense. However, I don't really want to treat hurt with counter-hurt or to throw away all the good stuff which really does exist even if not exactly detailed in my first post; I somehow want to get through to him to stop. Does anyone who has been anywhere even slightly similar think therapy would help? Good stuff about him specifically is intelligence, sense of humour, good conversation, being able to fix anything (on an engineering not an emotional or dick level), being calm/supportive/gentle (with notable exception), and I suppose just 'everything' being entwined after 20 years. Other good stuff is lovely house and garden (albeit rural so venting to friends over coffee is not so easy) which has been a relentless DIY project for 8 years and now calming down and possible to enjoy; good income and work/life balance; DD very easy and happy, and thriving at school. All this would become harder if we weren't together. And I love my work (own publishing company), where everyone outwardly at least thinks I'm fab, so that helps as a reality check (I WFH almost all the time but if I have trips /conferences DH is here for DD). So if there's a way to change things or make peace with them I feel that is much better than the nuclear option. As things stand I would miss him a lot, and it's too simplistic to say that is delusional.

He is not a good man. He's an arsehole.

He doesn't want to face the fact he has ed so he's blaming you.

If you don't feel that you deserve better (you do. Nothing he is saying or doing is your fault or your responsibility to fix!) then perhaps you could focus on your daughter. What you accept in your relationship is what your daughter will accept in hers.

He's not worth it.

He won’t change.

This thread is so depressing.
He is awful.
How dare he make you feel like this?
17 years is a terrible age gap anyway (what we're you thinking), but how dare a 60 year old man criticise his 43 year old wifes body? What does he want, a 20 year old? Fucking creep.

and not a single thing on this list makes him a good partner - you have literally not listed one thing about the way he treats YOU that would make him a good husband

he is just an old asshole struggling with his age and lack of erection - i would love to see how he employs his intelligence and sense of humour to deal with that

He doesn’t have empathy, the only way he might possibly stop is with a taste of his own medicine in my opinion, but I doubt it’ll really get through - he’s choosing to act like this.

Does anyone who has been anywhere even slightly similar think therapy would help?

No. The therapist isn't going to have the magic words, either. He's not going to sit down and a few sessions in suddenly go, "My god, she's right!" Please let go of the idea that there's some magical combination of ideas and words that will suddenly make him see this from your perspective - it doesn't exist.

Therapy can't help unless someone is committed to making a change, and everything you've posted makes it exceptionally clear that he's not interested in changing - not to stop hurting you, nor to protect your daughter.

This is a man who is a functional adult that is choosing to continue causing their partner pain. He's not stupid, emotionally blind, or ignorant, and you can't educate him out of being like this.

This thread is depressing and frustrating.

I mean this kindly: what was your point in posting? You will continue to put up with this vile behaviour another 40 times (if he lives till he's 80) and each episode will grind you down more and demonstrate to your DD that this is all a-ok. A sad story

I'm really glad the rest of your life is good, and as a PP said it's brilliant that this behaviour from your husband hasn't overly knocked your general sense of wellbeing and self-esteem.

It's interesting than when I (and others) said things like this: The "magic bullet" I'd suggest is saying to him, and meaning it: "Look darling I've told you before I don't appreciate you commenting on my weight. I'm healthy and slim and won't be making any changes to fit what you say you'd prefer. The next time you say I'm fat or unattractive I will be ending this marriage as there is no such thing as a marriage without respect." You've interpreted that as meaning the marriage would definitely come to an end. You're not even entertaining the possibility that he might actually go "oh shit she's serious" and decide to stop haranguing you about your perfectly normal body.

Is this because you think he CANNOT stop? Or because you think he just wouldn't want to?

I think I was more replying to the people who said more shortly - just walk away.
This conversation has made me determined that if/when the subject comes up again I will give an ultimatum along the lines you suggested. So that's useful, if scary. Thank you again.

I think the point was just to confirm what I already knew that this is not ok - as I said, I haven't talked to friends about it because it feels somehow shameful. Not sure I said exactly that but that's part of what I feel. And I really should clarify that all DD sees is 'jocular' remarks and me saying oh shut up, I'll have more pies if I want. The distress comes out behind closed doors. But I know she will become more aware.

And I really should clarify that all DD sees is 'jocular' remarks and me saying oh shut up, I'll have more pies if I want.

There is nothing positive in any of that.

it feels shameful because victims of abuse often feel shame - on some level you know he's treating you really badly and you're being very passive about it

he is literally telling you that he thinks you're unattractive but then attempts to have sex with you - and fails because of his ED

he is humiliating you rather because he can't face the fact that he is getting there in age and probably needs viagra

Ok, so the next time he starts talking about your body, I would poke him hard in his pot belly and say " What about this mate?" Tell him he needs to do sit ups to get rid of it!
What a wanker!

Not sure my self esteem is that great. (then again, whose is?) I am definitely a 'pleaser' - I like people to approve of me and hate the opposite, all pretty simply linked to my childhood. But I'm lucky because it seems that many people actually do like/approve of me which I'm old enough to realise most likely means I'm ok. So the sense of self-worth is a bit fragile but persistent, and increasingly so as I get older, despite this behaviour of DH. In fact maybe this behaviour and the fairly obvious conclusion that he's doing it to draw attention away from 'other stuff' has actually increased my sense of self-worth deep down in that I now don't think all criticism must be true.

"I really should clarify that all DD sees is 'jocular' remarks and me saying oh shut up, I'll have more pies if I want."

All DD sees is that dad thinks it's his right to critique mum's (maybe all women's? she might be wondering) body repeatedly in a personal and cruel way. And that mum tells him to shut up but that essentially he "gets away with it" so maybe he DOES have the right? Oh maybe men generally have the right to critique women's bodies out loud? Oh if that happens [and we all know it will] at school to me or my friends, I probably don't have the right to complain and maybe I should listen to what they say. Maybe if X in year 9 says I have fat arms I should stop eating so much, or go to the gym every day, and check the diameter of my arms obsessively?

Ok so I’ve had a vaguely similar situation with my boyfriends mum. She used to try to weigh me and tell me how many calories were in my food and suggest lower calorie alternatives when we were at restaurants. She was projecting, she was very insecure. I was actually stick thin at the time. She was probably slightly overweight. She saw nothing wrong with her comments and couldn’t be persuaded to stop. I gave an ultimatum to my boyfriend. His mum NEVER mentions anything about my weight again or I will dump him as I cannot be around her (for many reasons it was hard to date him without seeing her). The comments stopped. He’s now my DH and she’s my MIL. She still projects all sorts of other things at me though she’s learnt to be more subtle. I wonder if therapy would help because if your DH is using projection to make himself feel better hes likely to simply shift to another unhealthy and unhelpful behaviour. He needs to actually address the underlying feelings and insecurities in himself or there’ll be continuing issues.

As well as the point you made earlier that soon her own body will fill out and maybe he'll start on her. Or maybe she'll fear it and change her own eating habits to avoid it. After all dad doesn't like fat women.

Honestly OP you sound so lovely but you deserve so much better than to live with someone who decides to do you down - at all, let alone in front of your daughter. This has to stop, right now.