Proxy body dysmorphia!

[Donostiera]

Is it possible to have body dysmorphia for someone else? That's kind of a joke but I have an issue in that my husband genuinely thinks I am fat. I'm 43, my BMI is 22.5, most of my clothes are size 10. I have some flabby bits, wobbly thighs (always have had) nice tits (ditto). One DD aged 12. My husband is 60 and our sex life is less than it used to be. Has been for about 4 years. DH was having erection problems and prescribed viagra (I guess he was 'brave' to go to the doctor) but the implication about all of this seems to be that it is ME becoming less attractive that causes the issue. This conversation comes out every now and then, causes a lot of upset, then gets put back in its box. I've never been anything other than kind about the ED, which obviously isn't great for anyone but with the blue pills things are 'fine' in that department. But the idea that it's my fault just seems so bizarre - he has told me straight that I'm not attractive because I'm fat. Btw I weigh a little less than I did when we got married 16 years ago and about 8 kg less than a year or so before we got married (we've been together 20 years). I guess it is less nubile and firm flesh though. The conversation happens once or twice a year and then he is sensible enough to back off because he does genuinely love me and I him. It makes me feel both pretty terribly miserable and angry - it normally gets precipitated by him criticising me for eating too much (hold back on that beef; that pasta will go straight to your hips - low level carping). I really love food and wine and am a good cook, very interested in different types of food. It's a hobby / interest. We've always shared that interest but for him it seems less now - he says his appetite has decreased and in this (and some other areas) I see him more reluctant to try new things these days. So anyway, he calls me fat and wants me to restrict what I eat or to exercise more - solely in order to meet his aesthetic standard. I'm very healthy and quite fit, mostly from running around a massive garden / housed / DIY project, walking, swimming, yoga, not a gym bunny by any means but healthy. And it just makes me furious that he makes me feel guilty for not conforming to this standard he has, which seems to have changed over the years. Why should I do stuff I don't want to (work out, not eat pies) for an aesthetic ideal I don't share? But he says that not taking his wishes seriously is disrespectful. He also concedes that his view of my / women's bodies is probably not correct in an absolute sense but that he can't help it so it would be kinder of me to try to 'make an effort'. As I know what MN is like I'll just say his idea of porn is chainsaw videos on YouTube. There's nothing untoward going on there. I do love him very much though he has a tendency to criticise me in other areas, though mostly this one. I run a successful publishing business and am intelligent, but have probably quite typical mother derived self esteem issues that I've worked hard to get over and I really feel that giving in on this 'fat' question - I mean agreeing with his view - would be detrimental. Our daughter is 12 and still a total innocent nymph but one day soon she will become body conscious and also start to fill out. She already notices when he picks on me for 'flab' or 'eating too much butter' and I have taken this up with him. I think he now tries harder not to express this kind of thing in front of her. He's a good man, really. But this is so weird and seemingly intractable without me just deciding to become someone else. I could try to become a gym bunny and to diet but I don't bloody want to. So if I did it would only be for him. He thinks this would be loving and self actualising (or something), I think it would be weird and self-destructive to change for this one reason. I haven't spoken to any friends about it except once by angry drunken (me) WhatsApp chat after a particularly harsh episode. Friend, quite naturally, expressed the view that he was being a twat, hence my not talking to others because I want to protect his 'reputation'. But if he genuinely has this perception I guess it's more complex than twattiness. [sits back; awaits MN verdict of A-grade twattiness]

Power dynamic isn't always about money or status, in this case he had a lot more life experience than you - so there would naturally be a tendency for you to look up to or defer to him. It may not have felt it at the time but it's very common in relationships with big age gaps. Not necessarily saying it's all bad, but there is scope for manipulation.

The fact that you say this:

But I need to find some way for us both to make peace with this (non)issue.

it would be good to find a way to get him into a better place so he doesn't have to be so defensive

You seem to think this is somehow your responsibility to fix....it isn't. His cruel comments to you are his choice, his defensive behaviour is not your fault.

Generally refrains from calling me fat :-)
Buys thoughtful presents, arranges meal out, observes V-day and anniversary too, buys flowers now and then, is good at Christmas. Overall more or less appreciative. But it can feel a bit hollow if I don't bury any memories of last 'fat' episode - as I said these (and associated nagging) happen once or twice a year, building up over a few weeks, then a massive fight, period of mutual wariness, back to 'normal

Also, the fact that your daughter has picked up on his shitty comments is also harmful. How would you feel if she was with someone who treated her this way?

In both cases no. But here I am. More or less happy most of the time, as long as I do my best to ignore this thing. There's been a recent flareup, obviously.

What a disgusting, rude, fragile little man. Why do you tolerate this treatment? I don’t care what his reason is, either trying to blame you for his cock not working because he’s so painfully fragile, or because he clearly likes much, much younger women and you’re too old for him now, it’s unacceptable to talk to you like that.

This is the worst part. Not now but looking to the future. My parents were all kinds of dysfunctional when I was a teenager (they are still together and co-dependent - not sure if happy or not really)

My ex did this for years. We split over his infidelities, unrelated I think.

Now, he is with someone who is actually overweight/heading to obese!

She's in her 20s though!

So it obviously was never about weight, is all I can say. The rest - was it age? a way of destroying self esteem and maintaining control? - I don't know.

Thank you for being so kind. You and everyone. I wasn't quite sure what to expect when I posted. I now feel both tearful and reassured/heard/supported

Sex mostly instigated by him now because he has to be 'in the zone' and is naturally embarrassed if he's not which is awkward.
Does he not bother about pleasing you, even if he's not in the zone?

Here's the thing, OP - your daughter is going to think this is normal.

You can tell her that it isn't OK until you run out of breath but what you are showing her is that it is normal and acceptable. And that is because you are trying to find a way to make this unacceptable thing acceptable.

He's deflecting his issues onto you to save face.

@Donostiera look up DARVO - I'm dealing with an abusive husband who uses this tactic.

I'm really sorry to hear this. I a pretty sure my DH is not on the lookout for a new 20 year old, more worried about old age and general lost youth - mine standing in as some kind of symbol for his. Definitely not 'really' about weight.

Sometimes, probably would do more but I'm probably too penis/penetration focused

This is all true but she adores both of us and our family life, house etc. And since I love my husband despite this, tearing everything apart isn't an option I want to pursue now. I need the magic spell that will make him see THIS behaviour for what it is, and not wreck everything else for her as well as me.

here is a magic spell: "you are projecting your insecurities onto me, you're older, less attractive and your plumbing ceases to work, so quit trying to make me feel like shit just because you feel like it"

or a softer version of it

I suppose you could sit him down and tell him that he is being hurtful with his comments, and would like him to address them.
His reaction to this will tell you whether he actually gives a shit about the hurt he is causing.

I need the magic spell that will make him see THIS behaviour for what it is, and not wreck everything else for her as well as me.

There isn't one. He's a grown adult who knows perfectly well it's not OK to behave this way. This behaviour is his choice, not his curse.

I agree with the others saying you're far far too nice and kind and soft accepting this and looking for a way to solve it.

This is a form of abuse.

And there is no magic spell to stop an abuser acting like one.

I have said this. He persists that his inability to see me as attractive is real (that's fair enough) and that it is linked to fatness and thus. hold it in my power to remedy it (that's not). I mean, it's ok to just not fancy someone any more, but marriage should be about more than having the hots, right? And if he still wants to shag me (which he does, and I him), even if not out of searing lust, then being kinder about my appearance would surely be diplomatic.

This conversation has happened more than once. But it doesn't seem to fix anything - it all goes back in its box for a while, then resurfaces

He would get the same stock answer from me each and every time. Namely, Fuck. Off.

Ah OP, I know how this can grind a person down and leave you with all sorts of confidence problems.

I am actually a bit overweight but having grown up in a house where there were lots of 'comments', I now have a disproportionate view of myself and my weight and it's something I battle with constantly. Please do all you can to protect your daughter from believing lies about herself.

As for the husband, wonder if you've ever been able to have a measured conversation about it? Does he understand just how hurtful and untrue this is? Maybe you need to put a very firm boundary down and say that a) you do not believe his ED is anything to do with you and b) you live an active, healthy life that you enjoy, your weight is very healthy and you will not be modifying your body further. To ask a healthy person to lower their weight to an unhealthy level or take up an aggressive amount of exercise to fit some fantasy ideal, is totally absurd and in no way normal.

Tell him you do not wish to hear any more comments on this. You are healthy and happy, there is literally nothing for him to say.

I massively appreciate everyone's messages and kindness. Thank you. I'm probably not going to be able reply to everything due to work and life clamouring for attention but I just want to thank everyone. This is much more helpful than I dared hope. I knew you'd all think he's being a twat, but didn't realise how much better that support would make me feel.

I have said all these things. I guess that he 'tries' and that's why it goes away for a while. Then being pissed off about something else will make him start up again, which makes me aware he hasn't changed his perception, just tried to suppress it (which is a good thing), but ultimately can't (because it's so deep-seated / he stops trying which are both bad things)