Honest opinion please, counsellor called me manipulative

[Purpleraiin]

My partner has been diagnosed with a form of BPD known as emotionally unstable personality disorder and also emotional dysregulation. This had caused regular blow ups, him switching into a total different person during the blow ups and him packing and leaving every single time. Then comes back once he's switched back himself. I'm fine with this and have accepted it and support him, he receives help and his switching is getting less frequent and less nasty.

When he switches communication is difficult, he hears me say things I've not actually said, puts words in my mouth, accuses me of things, or tells me about all these fellings/issues that have built up and are now coming out during his episode. To me the natural response when someone tells you how they feel is to ask questions. Why do you feel like this, how long have you felt like it, what can I do to help help that? Etc.....so that is my response. It rarely gets me anywhere as he goes from 0-100 within minutes so my questions fall on deaf ears and he leaves anyway until his episode is over.

We decided couples counselling was our way forward, hoping to help my partner learn ways to communicate with me before he switches and during a switch and for me to learn what I can do to not trigger him and to help when it reaches boiling point. I explained to the counsellor I ask questions when he throws around these accusations or feelings and i ask so I can understand why he feels that way, if its something I've done to trigger those feelings and what I can do to help. The counsellor told me I am manipulative for doing this. I couldn't understand how that makes me manipulative so I asked her for an explanation and she actually couldn't give me one and moved On from the subject.

My partner is just coming out of another episode so isn't fully back to the reasonable and nice version of himself, so he has now lapped up me being called manipulative by a counsellor, and for him it has validated what I believe to be unreasonable thoughts about me which he gets during every episode. He himself will take back these thoughts once he's out of the episode and admit I'm not the problem, it's him and his mental health and not being able to manage issues without being triggered. I've asked his thoughts Om the manipulative comment and he says he agrees although he wouldn't have used the word manipulative. His words were ' I think it's more controlling than manipulative. You like to be in control of the situation. You don't like it when things don't go your way so you fire away with the questions.'

I am genuinely confused how asking questions about an issue that's been put to me by my partner is either manipulative or controlling. This is making me doubt myself now so I really need other people's opinions as i darednt question it any further with my partner through worry that will also be seen as controlling.....as far as he's concerned he is absolutely right because the counsellor has validated his thoughts with the manipulative comment.

May be worth mentioning I saw this counsellor by myself before bringing him along to the sessions. Her opinion of me when alone was the total opposite to her opinion when attending as a couple, and she said alot that contradicted herself from my sessions alone. I also have other issues towards her that have come up during our joint session but I don't know if I am being over sensitive tbh

Also BPD is not unconditional love. It's the complete reverse. Extremely conditional. Black and white.

The thing is, OP's counselling said she could be controlling and manipulative.

OP disliked the answers she got here so lashed out and said she wasn't reading further. That is controlling.

The therapist potentially has a point that OP should reflect on.

“for me to learn what I can do to not trigger him”

This is not your responsibility. We all have to manage our own “triggers”.

Your relationship actually sounds quite worrying and so does the counsellor. Trust me, there are some highly dangerous people practising as counsellors/therapists out there. Please be careful and look after yourself rather than him.

Wanting things to be OK with work you are prepared to put in is misguided but not controlling or manipulative. Having hope that all will be eventually OK is not controlling or manipulative.

But you do need to step back OP.

You say the counsellor is confusing your partner because of their diagnosis. Are you sure? Will this be a stick to beat you? Will you be seen as controlling and manipulative and abusive in future with no mental health diagnosis to explain it? Maybe you honed in on someone with mental health problems?

I think using a couples counsellor who isn't used to treating people with BPD maybe part of the problem.

Perhaps with no expeience of the disorder, she's not really qualified to be counselling you both.

Could you find someone who is familar who can see you together but who understands a little more about how his disorder plays into things?

Hi OP

So when he is in an episode, your response is to ask questions to understand what is going on,

This would only be a manipulative response if you were doing it to get him to respond in a specific way. Think about a few times when it has happened. Do you think that you are reacting, or do you think that your response is about trying to make him do something?

The answer to that will tell you whether you are being manipulative or not.

Now, you might be asking the questions so that you can work out what has gone wrong (triggered the situation) and fix it. In which case, you are seeking to manipulate him but in a good way. You want to help him calm down and try to make sure that particular trigger doesn't happen again.

However, as you probably know, he won't be rational at all once he is triggered. So you might be better off just sitting with the discomfort of the situation, accepting that he has been triggered and he will now leave and use his methods of dealing with it and you can analyse it afterwards.

You’re fixating on the therapist to distract yourself from the fact this is who your partner is and very unlikely to change. You need to get off the ‘trying to understand him’ and his episodes merry go around.

You sound like a rescuer out of her depth. He isn’t broken, he’s just someone who will always struggle with healthy relationships and will end up hurting anyone misguided enough to think they can help/ change him.

Isn't that just BPD rather than 'a form of..'? Is giving it a different name supposed to justify his extreme behaviour and abuse?
Not that it matters really. You are in an abusive relationship and it is clearly better for you to focus on what this counsellor said than actually acknowledge that fact.
Makes me wonder what happened in YOUR life OP to make you feel this is all you're worth :(

It's the rebranded name for BPD.

People who stay with abusers are normally codependent. I definitely was. That's why she's focused on his illness and healing him.

Both people need independent therapy. Codependency is also about enabling someone.

OP, you're not going to get help here because everyone else can see that this is an abusive relationship. You are attending counselling so that you can learn how not to trigger his (irrational) responses. does he behave this way at work? With friends?

Fine, on this one issue here's my advice - when he's having an "episode", don't engage. don't ask questions. Do nothing. You know that he can't and won't engage so don't try. Just say, "you are having an episode. I will go upstairs while you gather yourself and your stuff to leave. I'll see you in a few days."

But really, this bollocks is why men get away with murdering their partners. "oh, I couldn't help myself, I was just so angry" and all that shit.

Please don't have children with this man and subject them to his abuse.

Ok, nrtft, but coming in as someone with emotional dysregulation syndrome, anxiety and depression.

I too 'hear' things that haven't been said, over-react and have meltdowns. It's bloody difficult and I hate who I become but it seems the drug combi for the anxiety & depression is finally working so we (Dh, DD and I) have been working on controlling my episodes.

What you have been doing sounds great from my point of view. True, I probably won't be able to answer questions during an episode and if I did they wouldn't make sense but at least I would feel listened to - not that you were being manipulative.

One thing we have done here that works and that might help is the '5 Senses' to try to break the EDR episode, they work on trying to ground the person having the episode so that reality 'snaps' back or we can at least step back and have chance to reset. Each element is unique to the individual and can take time to work out but once in place and with repeated use they do seem to help.
Sound: a particular track that calms me goes on repeat
Touch : I have something I've had all my life ok it's a teddybear- that gets put in my hand
Smell : a particular smell I find soothing
Taste: this doesn't always work but we have something that I find comforting in at all times
breathe: this also doubles as space / silence as they give me space to calm down. We've introduced noise cancellation headphones that combine the first element with a way for me to withdraw while still being present.

They might not help with your DP but it's a suggestion.

As to the therapist - way to make things worse. Unfortunately they're not alone. My original one told me I just had to get on with it, research it myself and 'control yourself before you hurt someone' Duh, that was why I was trying to get help.

I would change therapists too.

Good luck and sorry for the rambling reply.

I think you need to see another counsellor to talk about you.
You seem very invested in taking on responsibility for your partners wellbeing. It must be a very stressful and disruptive way to live, yet your only focus seems to be on how much more you should be doing, with a strange mixture of mea culpa and resistance to criticism thrown in. Have you reflected on what you get from the role you're playing?
The message seems to be Look how much I do! Look what I put up with! See me asking empathic questions to help even more! And when both counsellor and partner have been less than positive, you are struggling without the positive acknowledgement you think you deserve.
If you intend to live like this, I think you need to explore what your motivations are, and particularly how you will cope when the situation doesn't yield what you hope for.

This is why it’s so dangerous for bored housewives to do counselling courses and become ‘counsellors’. So many of my friends have become counsellors and they’re certainly not objective or sane enough to do this 😁 OP, run from both your DH and your counsellor.

"I need to learn how to voice issues to him In a way thadoesn't snt trigger those fears."

No - he needs to stop blaming a diagnosis for being an abuser, and you need to stop walking on eggshells.

PLEASE listen to previous posters. You are being emotionally abused - badly. This is the very definition of gaslighting in its true sense. He has so distorted your perception of reality that you think this is somehow something you are in together - when really you are dancing to his tune and complying with his controlling agenda.

OP you’ve not answered the question about kids, if there aren’t any, please don’t have any with this man.

you keep saying you’ve put strategies in place which makes it all fine, but not what they are - and you just need help because you talking to him in a normal way “triggers” him and then makes his resulting episode your fault because you need to find a way to speak to him in a way that doesn’t upset him.

what should be happening, if you aren’t controlling and he is committed to improving, is he gets therapy to help him cope with you asking perfectly normal questions in perfectly normal ways. He learns to manage his problem, not you learn to tiptoe around him so he can blame you for his behaviour.

you need to see a different therapist about putting in your own boundaries. Supporting someone is not you learning how to follow his rules so you don’t trigger his bad behaviour. Supporting someone shouldn’t involve changing yourself.

Dump this counsellor. You need a Dialectical Behaviour therapy specialist - that is the therapy recommended for his diagnosis and a DBtherapist would know how to help you help him.
Having said that, I completely admire and respect you for sticking with him. No one would blame you for leaving (even if fear of abandonment is part of the illness).
DS21 has the same diagnosis. I completely understood when his gf left him. There are so many times I myself would have liked to walk away.

The Counsellor is making things worse!

You should have stuck up for yourself after the second appointment. Personally I would have dumped her there and then. You need to find a new counsellor if you intend to carry on with your relationship.

Hi @FortyNine49 I don't suppose you have a link to finding these as I think they would help me.

FS still waiting over 2 years for NHS therapy....
www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/borderline-personality-disorder/treatment/

Some gentle advice OP Mumsnet Relationships isn’t the place for advice on BPD partners - you’ll get loads of LTB responses. If you came on here and announced you were leaving your partner because he had cancer everyone would be up in arms but poor MH is fair game it seems.
I would definitely try and find a specialist counsellor - this one has done you and your SO no favours. During an episode he likely will regard your questions as manipulative as there’s likely a part of him that knows he is being unreasonable but he can’t stop and questioning at this time will just make him dig in further.
I don’t know if you have done any research but the golden rule is “DO NOT ENGAGE” during these episodes which is very difficult. BPD suffers can be clever and manipulative but ultimately the difference between and BPD sufferer and an arsehole is BPD don’t mean it. It’s a thin line that’s difficult to judge.
Living with a BPD partner is almost impossible (from my experience) but it is YOUR decision-only you can say when/if enough is enough (but do research Co-dependency sadly a thing that can happen)
I think you know deep down that Counsellor is a waste of space. Have faith in yourself OP. Join some support groups just for spouses. Sadly this is a lifetime thing but your SO is seeking help. You need to find a way to get him on your side against this particular comment from the Counsellor-do not doubt yourself OP - it’s her not you. You are a team and she has threatened that team. Sorry this response is so long but I hope it helped.

@Purpleraiin

Your counsellor sounds anything but professional I'm afraid. The way they've behaved towards you, someone vulnerable asking for help, making your situation worse and being rude and disrespectful to you, is quite despicable. In your situation I'd find out what their professional body is (if you've got the counsellor's registration as well as their other details, even better) and put in a written complaint. 🌹

You need to calmly request that the counsellor validate what she meant and explain the consequences of her comment.
if she has no experience of dealing with people with BPD then she shouldn’t be working with someone who has.
the episodes you describe are identical to my husband who has severe ADHD and had a dysfunctional emotionally abusive childhood.
I am also conscious that I have an anxious attachment style and my husband has an avoidant attachment style so I put up with things that I shouldn’t because I struggle with boundaries. I also tend to ask too many questions at a time when he needs space to explode.
I do not want to tell you to get rid of the counsellor because I don’t know enough, but I will say that she is not acting professionally.
I also think that whilst you support your husband with such love, he is not seeing the true consequences of his behaviour and how it might be destroying your self-esteem bit by not (I don’t know, I am speculating). If he has undiagnosed ADHD I also think another approach is needed. ADHD brains need a different kind of counselling as they have little capacity for remedial action or empathy.
I wish you well. Look after yourself.

What’s the financial situation between you like?

So we need help to communicate problems. I need to learn how to voice issues to him In a way thadoesn't snt trigger those fears. He needs to learn how to take on board my issues without fear.

No you don't. You already pussyfoot around him. This is ALL on him to manage.

EUPD is not an episodic disorder. It's (quite literally ) who he is. It's a list of behaviours and personality traits. What is episodic is his abuse of you. Your counsellor should never have agreed to see you together (amongst other issues with her practice... this should just never have started).

Someone with cancer isn't abusive.

I had to be prescribed diazepam after a year of dating him because I started to have panic attacks. I also developed a stress-related heart issue for a year.

I've spent about £3K on therapy. But no, we're all just being ableist...