Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 9

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to understand the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

Link to old thread

You met one person with autism, so you met one person with autism. My son is ASD, as are my sister and mum. My son has a few deep beautiful friendships. My mum is hugely difficult. My son was diagnosed very young and my mum never was. My mum is traumatised and has also sorts of physical issues no one found a cause for (hello undiagnosed women your chronic pain and migraines are untreated NDs) and is a difficult person. My son accepts himself fully and is a beautiful angel. He’s quirky but everyone loves him. My sister is somewhere in between mum and son. I believe it’s not the condition as such but how it is managed.

I got with an ASD guy two years ago and it was not good in the end. Why? Like my mum no one understood him as a child, treated him as weird, and he masked social anxiety and shame with substance abuse, being high conflict (the world of conflict is so black and white) and being a crusader in human rights law (armed with this special knowledge he is an avenging angel). He still does not know who he is. When he’s not in conflict/winning he doesn’t know what to be. His shame and defensiveness are so deep seated. In his emotional life, such as it is, he intellectualises narratives about who did the bad thing ‘to’ him instead of examining his own true feelings and actions and motivations. He was brought up feeling he was naughty and bad and he’s scared to examine who he really is.

I was so attracted to this brilliant intelligent man who attached himself to me so quickly and made me feel so special. He was just lonely and desperate for connection and playing a role. I’m sure he’s on Bumble now showing off his how big his postdoc is. When I began to truly see him and actually dragged him to specialist ND counselling for help, he dumped me.

He acts, sounds and behaves like a narc. Is he one? NPD isn’t the cause.

Would I date someone with ASD again? Absolutely. I am ND. These are my people. But only if I truly felt they were self aware and not driven by shame.

Yes hmmm was an understatement. The first time I got the silent treatment I was terrified. And then I was told it was an autism symptom so I felt I wasn’t entitled to say it made me scared and sad.

Yes but I think support means learning and understanding. Not just bashing and moaning

Support can be just being there, listening and understanding.

@organictomatoes @Dialledin thanks for your input, its really useful to me. I've actually dated a few ND people, one undiagnosed, one diagnosed but I never looked into it further for various reasons so went with the flow. Current partner is proving to be someone I like so it's got me thinking more about how the dynamics are working.

Previous NT exes : can't wait to see me, planning the next dates, regular comms. I don't second guess anything. Flirting, complimentary so I feel desired.

ND : really good/attentive/tactile in person, less so in between. Has regular routine or requires life admin days so feels like i fit in outside this.

I thought my attachment style was secure before but seems to be anxious here because I'm not used to this type of person/I like them.

@Realdeal1 my DH was a lot like you described a NT person in the beginning. He was pretty full on. I however I think was his special interest at the time. This all changed dramatically after we were married a few years and the mask dropped. By then running and our kids were his special interests. I then slotted in to the background. This I find incredibly difficult after feeling very important to him.

It’s good I think you’re getting an honest portrayal from the onset of what his routine is like. I have to say I have a more anxious attachment style with DH since he changed. It’s massively affected my mental health over time. Just keep an eye on that one. Are there any adjustments he could make to stop you feeling this way. Could he message you or call you at a particular time each day. I’d do all possible to move towards feeling secure. In my experience ASD people are pretty loyal and it’ll be innocent reasons you don’t hear from him in all likelihood but still, it’s making you feel uneasy so worth finding a solution if you can.

@Daftasabroom

Yes but I think support means learning and understanding. Not just bashing and moaning

Support can be just being there, listening and understanding.

This is true. But it can also be learning and understanding. I'm not bashing people who are there listening and understanding so why am I being bashed for contributing with information and suggestions? They are both valid forms of support. It just seems like people don't want to engage in the latter form.

@DancesWithDucks I’m sorry you had to feel that way. Passive aggressiveness is a silent killer to enjoying life together in a relationship. I find it’s the worse thing in the world for me as a heart on my sleeve type. I find it so hard to comprehend why someone would do that. Although I have found myself withholding and doing a bit of it myself because I can’t handle the thought of speaking up and being met with silence and PA. Awful you ex drove at speeds like that with kids in the car. It sounds like you’re better off away from someone like that. It’s utterly reckless.

@organictomatoes this is the thing that scares me about couples therapy. It might be he’s ASD and I’m Co dependent but like you I believe he caused this mental state I’m.

For a highly intelligent person, it sounds like the selective stonewalling was a cruel thing to do to you. It’s horrible to think people use ASD to justify being mean. If it’s a choice and they can see you in pain, this is clearly what it is.

@organictomatoes this is the thing that scares me about couples therapy. It might be he’s ASD and I’m Co dependent but like you I believe he caused this mental state I’m.

For a highly intelligent person, it sounds like the selective stonewalling was a cruel thing to do to you. It’s horrible to think people use ASD to justify being mean. If it’s a choice and they can see you in pain, this is clearly what it is.

@Realdeal1 What I would advise in the early stages of an ND relationship is to think a lot about what you want - not just from relationships, but from life. Your partner knows what he wants and is making sure he gets it. It will be up to you to do the same - to make sure you are doing the things that bring you joy, regardless of what your partner is doing and whether he’s involved.

You asked in an earlier post what you could do to nurture the relationship, and I think this is where a lot of us on this thread have run into difficulty - imagining that there is something we can do to help the relationship meet our needs. That it’s a matter of finding a different route to the same destination, and there must be accommodations that can help our partner to make us feel loved and wanted and interesting. But that is often not the way it works. We can make accommodations to make their experience of being in a relationship less aversive, but there’s no guaranteed way to help our partners express affection and interest. Because often they just don’t feel those things towards us, in the way we assume needs to happen for a relationship to be worth bothering with. My experience has been that my DH feels neutral about me when things are going well. I am a part of his routine, and if I am not currently malfunctioning in inconvenient ways, that feels, at best, satisfactory. When things are going less well, I am an agent of chaos and demand, to be fought tooth and nail. There is no expectation from him that my company should bring him joy or excitement or happiness.

So start from what you want, independent of your partner, and consider whether you're OK living a parallel life where you might not share a lot of experiences and you may do all the initiating, organising, etc.

@organictomatoes I just read your description of your ex. You just beautifully described an extremely complex human being. I’m sorry you tried to help him and he discarded you. It sounds like he feels deeply shameful of who he really is and that’s such a sad place to be. Are you sure it’s not NPD as it sounds a lot like he killed off his real self and created a persona.

It is very clear from your posts that you are completely unable to see the perspective of the NT partner, it’s like they don’t even exist to you as people with their own thoughts, feelings or needs.

You are only able to Centre the ND person and demand everyone else here does too.

That is exactly the attitude and dynamic in relationships that is causing so much pain to people on this thread.

The absolute arrogance of thinking you can direct us as to how we seek support.

The absolute arrogance of thinking we don’t understand the partners we have lived with for decades.

Sorry, you don’t get to dictate how we talk to or seek support from each other on this thread. You don’t get to tell us to Centre anyone other than ourselves here, if we don’t choose to. For many of us, this is our only space to talk to other people who understand what we are going through. Our only space.

This isn’t your space to control, and we aren’t yours to lecture to. This is our space and we are absolutely entitled to it.

This is really well said and absolutely where I went wrong. When I met DH I’d had a career and hobbies. All I really wanted though was to get married and have kids which matched with what he wanted. What I failed to realise was that his career and hobbies would just carry on and mine were gone the moment I said ‘I do’. I guess I underestimated the impact of pregnancy and young children on a women’s life. After all I’ve been brought up in a generation of women who are told we can do anything. Actually if we have a seemly pregnancy, supportive partner and copious amounts of childcare we can do something but not everything. Adding ASD into the mix means for me I’m overshadowed rather than supported therefore my only option is to ignore my hopes and dreams. As DH says what I do now is up to me and what he does is up to him. There’s no support with any of it.

@Realdeal1 I honestly think you being past the having kids phase is a blessing. You will likely need to be your own biggest cheerleader. Anything that makes this difficult will make the situation harder. Keep advocating for yourself and what you want out of life. If having to do this for yourself doesn’t sit well with you then maybe this relationship won’t work out. I’m hopeful for you that your new partner can support your hopes and dreams in some way.

Whether the cause is NPD or not it’s the behaviours. I was raised by two parents who I think both are undiagnosed ASD. They behaved like NPD. I became codependent for this reason. I have chosen emotionally unavailable and selfish partners my whole life as I subconsciously recreate my childhood. I believed the only choices were to be a helper or be avoidant or be alone.

I wish I had got into therapy sooner. I started to see the codependency, perfectionism and anxiety developing in one of my XDP’s kids.

No one with ASD automatically has NPD. My son does not. My sister does not. But when the parallels are there we must think about ourselves and our children.

@organictomatoes I can appreciate it’s the behaviours and they are not caused by ASD. My ex displayed shades of NPD I think due to childhood trauma. He was also ASD. My DH now is ASD but as far away from NPD as you can get.

Did you ever get to the bottom of why your parents behaved like NPD? As a parent I definitely feel so much more self aware of how I am and the impact it might have on my kids. I’m sorry it affected your later relationships in the way it did.

Struggling with the hypocrisy and criticism today. He won’t let the DC eat in the lounge as they make crumbs. Except of course his DC are allowed to! I found bits of embedded cornflake cake in the rug and on the sofa yesterday morning which his DS must have eaten in there as he was the only child here last weekend. DP said last night to me that he bought the cornflake cakes for his DS and I said very lightheartedly “I know I found bits of them on the sofa and the rug!” I laughed and said it was fine.

BUT that is a “criticism” of his DS of course and he has obviously banked it. Cue this morning he starts going on about there being “pie ALL OVER THE FLOOR”. My DC had pie last night for dinner. I looked at the floor. There was a tiny thumb nail sized bit of pastry under the chair. Tiny. I said “all over the floor???” and got the dustpan to make a show of sweeping it up.

I know this was petty but it just irks me that his DC cannot be criticised for anything. Even if they eat snacks in the lounge which they’re not supposed to and get chocolate flattened into the rug and sofa which I have had to wipe clean. If I mention that in passing, which I suppose was a bit pass agg maybe (??), but I am just not allowed to actually criticise them or anything they’ve done as he just gets very angry. Either he immediately starts shouting at them which is over the top and unnecessary or he starts getting defensive and going on about my DC and everything he thinks they do “wrong”. So I occasionally mention small things in passing if they happen to come up in conversation. So rather than say “DS has been eating chocolate in the lounge and it’s crushed into the sofa and the rug and I have just had to clean it up!!!” I chose not to say anything and when he raised the snack in conversation I said I know as I found bits of it in the lounge. I try to take a softer approach so as not to cause him to flip out. Sometimes this does work better. Mostly I say nothing but I do then end up building up resentment as he is so critical of my DC and thinks his own are perfect. They are an extension of him and can do no wrong and cannot ever be criticised even if they’ve done something they shouldn’t.

But of course despite it being an indirect soft criticism he had banked it for later and would need to get his revenge by finding something to criticise my DC for. In this case the pie “all over the floor”!!!! He loves to exaggerate everything to justify the criticism. I can’t tell you how much food I clean up after his DC have been here. 90% of the time I don’t even mention it. More than 90% probably. But of course if I do happen to mention anything it means he will naturally have to find some small thing he can exaggerate and use to counter criticise. I hate it!!!!!

I don’t think there is a solution. He cannot cope with direct criticism of him or his DC. He cannot abide indirect criticism either. In short, there should never be an instance where criticism of him/DC is due as they all perfect. Me and my DC on the other hand are heathens you would think!!!!

It’s the hypocrisy which I cannot stand. That and the abject defensiveness. Like I say mostly I just let it go but it can mean resentment builds inside me and it’s unhealthy to feel that way really. I just want him to know we are all human and we all make a mess or forget things. So his DC do it, he does it, I do it…. I’m just saying look these are small things and they don’t matter and we all do them. But he cannot see it. He thinks they’re being criticised and so needs to hit back. I don’t know what the answer is. Say nothing at all ever I guess and just live with me and my DC being criticised all the time and try not to let the hypocrisy upset me.

Why is criticism such a HUGE thing?
Is it low self esteem? Is it a god complex? I have never know anyone dish out so much of it (very usually hugely exaggerating things) and be so sensitive to any form of perceived criticism. (I have been shouted at for repeating myself in the past as this is me insinuating he hasn’t listened to me! I was just repeating something I said the day before. That’s all. I got both barrels. How dare I say he wasn’t listening. He responded to me the day before when I said that. Why should he need to respond again?!!! I was gobsmacked to say the least!)

Sorry. Ignore me. I can see there was an interesting discussion going on about NPD traits!I haven’t meant to barge in with my own silly nonsense of this morning! Just having a bit of rant! Carry on as you were ☺️

@BustyLaRoux I can imagine maintaining a blended family is made made much harder by his overreaction to perceived criticism. It sounds to me like you don’t mind clearing up crumbs whoever made them. It wouldn’t be a problem if he followed suit. Frustratingly though it’s one rule for him and another for you. Also, the storing away of events and then the retribution creates unnecessary conflict. You must be exhausted from it. I’m not really sure what will help this situation but didn’t want to read and run.

@BustyLaRoux this is important too as it’s clearly upset you. My DH is a bit like this. Sometimes he struggles if I say something negative about our own dc or act negatively towards them. Despite spending way too much time with them as a SAHM. I can’t be positive all of the time. He doesn’t get how overwhelming dealing with small children all day is. He’s even hinted he’d do I better job of it if it were him.

He also gets angry if I repeat myself and snaps at me. Why are they so succinct with conversations. He hates small talk or me just chatting about my day. Yet talking about big issues is too intense. Sometimes I don’t know what to say to him. I probably repeat things unconsciously because I got a response from him.

I think this is my biggest frustration. I love talking and the validation of being heard and seen. Now I’m not getting that from DH I feel a bit lost really. I’ve tried being quiet but it goes against my nature. When I relax and chat away normally I often hit a brick wall with him. His body language is all but saying to shut the hell up because he’s not interested. Nowadays I mainly talk about important stuff but he’s still not that interested in a lot of it.

Rant away!

The inability to cope with anything perceived as criticism is a major difficulty. It’s frustrating in its own right, but it also stops there from being change or improvement, as there is no learning, as they did nothing wrong in the first place.

@BustyLaRoux please rant away!!
This is one if the reasons why this thread exists!

Also the PA and not coping with any criticism?
Dh does that too. I think it’s coming from a mix of having being bullied at school and the rigidity of ASD. That’s his way to protect himself.

I mentioned earlier on how one poster changed my outlook on what is going on in my marriage. That was about understanding, explaining etc….

But I want to say that all the ‘moaning and bashing’ posts are just as helpful to me. Why? Because every single one of us come with a story. Noticing some details, having some understanding of what’s going on and why our dh react in a certain way.
And that, in itself, is clarifying what’s going with myself and dh. Sometimes, it’s a ‘hell no, that’s not me/him/us’ and sometimes it’s a ‘oh yes…. I hadn’t noticed that but this is what’s going on’.

eg for a very very long time, I thought there was something utterly wrong with me. I was loosing it, getting upset with dh/the situation, and he was staying so calm. He was looking so rational (to me) that clearly I had to be the one in the wrong, right?
Thats reading experiences like the ones on this thread that helped me realised that actually dh isn’t calm and rational. He is silently seething. He is PA. He was stonewalling me, ignoring me.
I've also realised that me emoting at him (usually because when I said something, it’s because I couldn’t keep bottling things up so it all came out rather haphazardly) wasn't helpful either….

Even me moaning about dh is helpful. Because yes being able to share the frustrations is helpful but because it helps me organise my thoughts and gain some clarity I don’t otherwise have.

All to say that the so called ‘moaning and bashing’ of our dh is actually helpful to me. The insight I’m gaining is helpful to me. Much more than the theoretical explaining of what ASD is for example.