Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 9

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to understand the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

Link to old thread

@YesThis your reply explains things. I’m so sorry you’re going through all this. It sounds utterly utterly exhausting. What are you going to do?
Ive asked myself this question multiple times.
Can I cope with the exhaustion of continually having to be a breaker for DH’s dysfunctional behaviour with the kids or do I leave?

I wish I could wave a magic wand and they finally get it. I do hope you find a way forward. It’s a very hard place to be. Hugs to you.

It’s a really interesting discussion around ASD and Narcissism and whether they’re the same or not. I do think they’re different but I also agree completely that to the person on the other end of it, the experience feels the same. I suppose for me if I thought my DP was enjoying being cruel it would be the end for me. He used to give me silent treatment when I had “offended” him. I never knew what I’d done. I would be scrabbling around trying to make up for my “mistake” but he wouldn’t tell me what I’d done. I felt wretched. The more I pushed the more cold he would become. I realise now it wasn’t meant to be cruel. He didn’t think it worth discussing and didn’t want me to push him. I said fine, but the silent treatment needs to stop as it is abusive and cruel. He genuinely didn’t realise. Just thought he was shutting down a potential conflict in the only way he knew how. I asked him to see if from my point of view: a punishment for an undisclosed crime. Something which makes me feel anxious and bewildered and which I have no power to address as he won’t discuss it and that makes me even more anxious.

Eventually he could see it was being experienced as cruelty even though it wasn’t his intention. If he gets into one of those stern moods I know to just ignore it and he knows to move on quickly and get over it and not leave me stewing in anxiety for days.

So I guess for me, the experience of cruelty was the same but with some work it is sometimes (not with all partners!) possible to get them to see what it is doing to the other person and how it is experienced. And that by acknowledging that it wasn’t the intention, they are able to alter their behaviour.

Although it’s very hard work and not possible for a lot of relationships. And wouldn’t it just be easier to be with someone who didn’t make everything about them and didn’t see everything as criticism despite walking through life criticising the shit out of everyone and everything!!!!

Exactly this pattern @BustyLaRoux ! I say 'maybe try this' and its framed as I am saying 'you are inadequate.' You have explained it very well for me here. Its very comforting to know I was not alone.

Time to move on. I am not feeling sad, really. I am angry with myself for putting up with it all for so long but also like there's a load off my shoulders. I slept better than I have in a very long time last night and feel energised and free.

I'm also really pleased to hear you made progress with the silent treatment stuff. I do think its eminently possible to have a great relationship with an ASD partner if the NT and ND partners can meet in the middle like this. Its a lovely case study actually.

organictomatoes yay for sleeping well!!!! Honestly sometimes it is better to just say I have reached my limit. I’m really happy for you. Your subconscious is obviously at peace now.

Thank you for your nice words. It’s one of the reasons I stay. Because there is room for growth. He can listen. He can change. I could multiple examples of changes he has made. I know he wants to be better. But it’s all about timing. If he feels criticised in any way, it becomes a battle. He will shout. Blame. Compare. Criticise. Defend….. when it works it can work very well, but when it doesn’t…. Jeez. It’s tough. And for some relationships the capacity to change isn’t there. And I do not blame anyone from walking away from that as it is utterly miserable and frustrating and exhausting when it’s like that. No one needs to live like that. Xx

Absolutely no idea what to do! 😞

And yes, it is exhausting and I am exhausted.

Could you leave and go for full custody? I know it sounds cruel to keep the kids from their dad but it’s not like they wouldn’t be able to see him. They could just opt to live with mum. Even if he contested, you would be able to present examples which demonstrate he is not able to parent by himself. Tying child to a chair to make them eat. I’m sure if the DC were interviewed by CaFCASS they would say they don’t want to live with him. I know it seems harsh, but once you’re out the other side of it all wouldn’t you and the DC be better off in the end?

Sorry I’m not trying to give you advice. Just think through possible options which I’m sure you’ve already considered! Failing that, then just a hand hold. Xx

Lurker here who has recently started dating someone with ADHD and Aspergers. I'm at a different stage in that I have children already so not looking to have a family but I'd be interested to understand the dynamics more that I should be aware of as opposed to traditional neurotypical relationships. My soft skills and comm skills are very strong but at the same time, I'd like to understand how best to nurture such a relationship.

It's difficult as there can be such a difference in the basic state of being that the person with ASD in particular often needs everything to be done their way to make it work. It's not that they don't try but it's that they are not able to adapt so the NT often has to be the one to do 90% of the compromise.

ASD people often feel that they are compromising 100% of the time because if everything was done their way the relationship would look very different. I'm not sure what it would look like.

But there is a huge difference in the way of communication. The amount of communication. The level of and manner of affection.

It can be really really hard. Not so evident at first as everyone is working hard to make things work but over years when both people revert to type the differences become apparent. It can work. But it can leave both parties feeling wronged a lot of the time

One of the problems is NT people thinking it is for the ND person to change. Like they are flawed or wrong.

Often the outbursts are because the NT person is putting demands on the ND person that they are but able to tolerate.

Until there is acceptance that there is a massive difference rather than flaw, nothing will ever work

Sorry to be cynical but this struck me:
I'd like to understand how best to nurture such a relationship

Based on my experience, I think what you most need to understand is that your partner will not be thinking in this way about you.

Do you really want such a one sided relationship?

You state this is a new relationship and you appear to be already giving yourself mantle of the burden of work to try to make the relationship work.

I don't think that's a good sign.

@Realdeal1 it's difficult to advise since the impacts are very individualised. A common experience on this thread is late diagnosis. That can mean the relationship began with the ASD person masking due to societal pressure and therefore the NT person ends up with a fundamentally different sense of that person. As years pass people change, masking ends and some couples realise late that they have fundamental incompatibilities. It's great you're going into the relationship with that advance knowledge that you are mixed neurotypes.

I would think about your communication needs. What are they? How can your partner communicate their internal world? In my experience you need to question all your basic assumptions since they may not match eg what a relationship is for. For me this is basic reciprocal emotional connection. For my DH it's more like companionship. In practice these are really different.

All that acceptance and accommodation is flowing one way though, in this narrative you set out, isn't it? From one person and to the other.

Successful relationships are about both being able to move towards each other. If only one person is doing that, resentment builds. PP described such relationships as like a death of a 1000 cuts. That is very accurate.

Actually my advice is this, I said this earlier upthread. It works for any relationship, not just where one is NT. And its that you need to judge the quality of the relationship by how things are where things are not going well, not by how they are when you are both getting along splendidly. If when there are disagreements/ disputes and you can both find a way to work through that constructively together and resolve it, you have a firm foundation for your relationship. If you can't, then end the relationship.

And based on my experience - do not dismiss the odd/ upsetting bad incidents. I did this and concentrated on the good. But those incidents were the red flags I ignored. Regret that now. If I have knew how to read those, I would have left when it was easier too.

@YesThis
All that acceptance and accommodation is flowing one way though, in this narrative you set out, isn't it? From one person and to the other.

Successful relationships are about both being able to move towards each other. If only one person is doing that, resentment builds. PP described such relationships as like a death of a 1000 cuts. That is very accurate.
But the ASD partner will feel like they are compromising. Just living in a NT world is requiring masking and compromise every single hour of every single day. Just existing in a relationship is taxing. That's what NT don't always realise. NT see them as making all the sacrifices and accommodations but that is what NT are doing daily

drumbeats honestly I think you’ve missed my point though. And as YesThis has explained, a relationship needs to be two-way. Some acceptance, some understanding, some change. My DP has asked me to change many of my behaviours:

I must not interrupt him (though naturally he continually interrupts me)

I must not pursue a conversation when he doesn’t want one just because I want to have the conversation

I must be Very Careful how I choose my words so as not to set him off

I must not ask him to do a task differently (this is criticism, even if the way he is doing it is causing damage)

I avoid telling him when he has upset me as he would likely see this as criticism (I can….if I time it perfectly and choose my words very very carefully)

Just a few examples of the accommodations I make for him. And as we are meant to be a partnership there are things I would like him to change. Some of which he has been able to do. He no longer barks “SECOND TIME” at me if he has to repeat himself. He no longer points his finger at me in a jabby way when he is reinforcing his point. He no longer gives me the silent treatment for days at a time.

He does however continue to shout at me (which he thinks is reasonable and acceptable). He shouts over me when I speak calmly to silence me if he doesn’t want to hear my pov. (Which is never). He does openly criticise my DC and my exDH which I do not want to hear and have repeatedly asked him to stop.

I don’t think these are behaviours I should tolerate. And I do continue to state that I don’t like them. I try to walk away rather than engage, saying I am not engaging with this. It is upsetting and exhausting. He doesn’t do conflict well at all. Even small inconsequential disagreements over very minor things. Quickly there is aggression and perceived criticism, defensiveness and blame. And of course shouting. I manage it as best I can. And I stay because there is hope of change. And because there are many plus sides to being with him. But I do not accept that I should not seek to try and change his unpalatable behaviours. I accept a lot already. I have changed my own behaviours to suit him and his ways. It cannot be all on me to accept and change and for him, because he is ASD, to just remain as he is. I mean he can choose to stay like that if he wants but he will find it difficult to find someone who would tolerate it long term. He is a better person for being with me. A better partner, a better father and he would be the first to say that. And not all ND people are capable of reflection and change. And it isn’t for their partners to accept and suffer endlessly while they make all the accommodations. They can actually choose to leave. And that is OK.

Also I am not sure why you assume I am NT. I have a diagnosis of ADD as it happens. And yes my ND partner has made some accommodations for me also. Because we are in a relationship and that’s how it should work.

I agree about acceptance.

But my question is more about what acceptance means.

Accepting the ASD person will always be ASD is one thing.

Accepting anything and everything someone with ASD ‘needs’ with no care for the needs of the NT partner ‘because they are NT so they can/should cope’ isn’t. NT do have their own needs (eg for connexion) and they shouldnt be dismissed just because they are NT. Those needs are just as worthy. Nor should the ASD partner expect their NT partner to change either iyswim.

If you add other stuff in the middle such as the other partner is also ND (but let’s say ADHD rather than ASD) or physical disabilities rather than ND, then it becomes extremely hard to handle. Many of us are in that position on this thread.

And i think this is where the crux of the problem is.
Sometimes the needs of each partner are simply not compatible long term. Or they mean that one person is giving up too much - aka it’s unhealthy.

Sometimes what could look like the NT asking for the ASD partner to change (eg I need more emotional connexion/small talk/cuddles) is simply the NT asking for their needs to be met too.
Sometimes what looks like the ASD partner imposing their needs (eg staying silent/hyperfocus on a task/rigidity of schedule or food) is the ASD person asking for their needs to be met.

I think we need to be very careful to not assume that if the NT partner is asking for something specific from their ASD partner, it’s just because they can’t accept the ASD iyswim

I do understand your point about them feeling like they have to compromise all the time. But yes, if it possible to do so then they should. Because it isn’t OK to go around shouting at people. They can compromise or not. But other people also have the right to refuse to deal with them.

SpecialMangeTout that’s very well explained

When DW and I come to an impass in our relationship, like many others we agree for each us to compromise and meet halfway. I take a couple of steps forward, DW however takes a couple of steps backwards. We're still as far apart as we ever were yet I have compromised while DW has retreated or dug her heels in even further.

@drumbeats for most of us on this thread it is us making the change, the compromise. Very rarely our partners. In my experience the demands and sacrifices are totally one sided.

I totally agree that you need to judge how you both deal with the not so fabulous bits of your relationship.
I genuinely thought dh and I had a great relationship. We never argue.....about anything.....ever.
27 years and no disagreements, no arguments. Dh defers to me about everything.
I always thought we* *talked about stuff, I realise it is always just me talking and dh just going along with whatever direction I am going in. He never actually contributes to the conversation. "I hear what you're saying " "That makes sense " "You know more about that than me" "That sounds good " "Im happy with that" are the usual responses regarding anything from where we go on vacation to what's for dinner.
We have had births, deaths, serious illness, emergency surgery, kids struggling in school, kids struggling emotionally, basically 27 years of life. I can honestly say that dh has been emotionally unavailable for most if not all of life's shitty times.
It has taken me such a long time to actually see our relationship for what it is. Lonely.

Just living in a NT world is requiring masking and compromise every single hour of every single day. Just existing in a relationship is taxing.

Tbh if someone feels that ‘just existing in a relationship is taxing’ then I don’t think they should be in a relationship - for their own sake!!

I also think you might want to get curious about the many conditions that actually ask people to compromise and mask every single hour of every single day. From some physical disabilities to PTSD, generalised anxiety disorders etc etc….

@PictureFrameWindow I like my partner a lot and there is a real kindness there which I find really attractive. I think where I struggle a bit is I'm used to partners who are quite full on for want of a better word, and there's no question about making plans or where things are heading. With my partner, it's like he's in a bubble and I have to take as face value that he cares, or is faithful etc. I guess I want that reassurance and part of me wonders whether we are both better suited to our own eg NT for me, ND for him. When we are together, it's brilliant but it does feel like outside that, he's in his own world.

I think the will to make it work on both sides, to communicate and to try as far as possible to meet each other's needs, is one of the two cruxes.

The other crucial thing is the ability to change. Sometimes people try very hard to adapt but sadly it just can't be done.

But the will to try is the first step. Relationship is doomed if one side isn't willing to try, while the other is.

Yes there are other conditions that also make relationships challenging. In not sure how that negates my points or why you want to look into them?