Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 9

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to understand the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

Link to old thread

I’m so sorry to hear of people’s struggles with their Hs. It’s heartbreaking to read how there is a double bind of needing to be grateful for the physical care they are receiving but not being allowed to say how hard they find it emotionally to be in a close relationship with someone with ASD. If the spouse delivering the physical care said they were struggling physically because of it. The strain on them was hard. They do it because they love the person but it’s been really challenging caring for their partner … they get a pat on the back. If the other says emotionally they’re drained. They’re burnt out. It’s really tough and they’re miserable….. they’re told they’re being unfair?

My DF is ASD and he made my DM’s life a misery. Everything was on his terms. He was angry and controlling. We were all scared of him. He was unable to see another PoV and would become angry if challenged. Shouting was normal communication. Criticism was normal. My DM was the most caring and loving parent but eventually she walked out on us. And it broke her heart to leave her children. She never forgave herself. She drank herself to death in the end and partly I think this was to shut out the guilt of what she had done. But I don’t blame her. I blame my DF for driving her away. He was awful to her. Would time her trips to the supermarket to what HE felt was a reasonably amount of time. Would check the receipts to ensure she paid him back for any items which were not “household” items. This kind of thing. It was normal for him to behave like this. He genuinely doesn’t see anything wrong. In his mind she used to take too long to do the shopping so why shouldn’t he set a limit? The money he gave her for housekeeping should only be spent on family items and he doesn’t see an issue with making her pay him back for the pair of tights she bought (tights to go to work in. He felt her wages should pay for those. It doesn’t matter they only cost 99p. It’s the principle).

So yeah, his controlling behaviour was abusive. And I do blame him despite the fact that with hindsight I can see it is his ASD which makes him behave like this. I don’t think everyone with ASD is an abuser. But I do think the controlling nature has a higher likelihood of it tipping over into abuse in a marriage. And this is what I saw with my parents.

I had a conversation with someone close to
mw recently and they said I was wrong to blame my DF for the way he behaved and for driving my lovely DM to do what she did and how it wasn’t his fault. But I do blame him. He’s a fucking asshole! He’s an asshole still. I don’t care if it’s ASD related. I resent him for what he did and what he continues to do. Shouting at us and demanding we do what he wants. I don’t appreciate her telling me to have more compassion as it’s not his fault. I guess when you live with it, when it destroys your life and you have every right to be angry and people saying “oh but it’s not their fault. You shouldn’t feel this way. You’re wrong to feel angry”….. it really irks!

I don’t appreciate her telling me to have more compassion as it’s not his fault. I guess when you live with it, when it destroys your life and you have every right to be angry and people saying “oh but it’s not their fault. You shouldn’t feel this way. You’re wrong to feel angry”….. it really irks!

I completely agree with this. I’m still really upset with the counsellor who told me to understand my H more and how he can’t help himself. I don’t have any emotional capacity anymore for him, it’s all used up on trying to keep my own head just above water so I can get through the day. Where was her compassion for me? Why am I the one who is always invisible?

@BustyLaRoux

Your poor Mum. That’s absolutely awful, utterly tragic. I really admire you for your grace to your Mum.

@krkw @bunhead1979 may I ask what age you or partners were diagnosed at?

DW tends to shutdown or find some kind of displacement activity when times get tough.

just recently for me and I'm 37 and I get it from my mam who still isn't diagnosed at 67. Unfortunately the help isn't there even after you are diagnosed but I've found groups on fb to be the best help for me

Thank you @krkw DW and I are both in our 50s. I'm waiting for an ADHD assessment, DS was diagnosed AS at 7, over the years it's become very clear how similar DS and DW are. But also how different our relationships with each other are.

YesThis sucks doesn’t it? Who are these people to tell us to have more compassion? I have every right to feel angry. I have every right to hold it against him. It’s not like people haven’t tried to tell him his behaviour isn’t reasonable. He just doesn’t agree. It is entirely reasonable as far as he is concerned. And it’s like the principle (him being in the right) overrides anyone being upset.

A more recent example I was discussing last night with my DB: recently some relatives came a long way to stay with him. I haven’t seen them for several months and before that several years. I went to meet them and my DF in a pub near his house. I took my DC and my DP whom they’ve never met. We were having a nice time. I think we were still on our 1st drink and I said I was going to order some food for the DC as it was 6:30pm and I couldn’t be bothered to get home and start cooking. My relative has gastro issues and can be really quite ill if food isn’t managed properly. He saw us ordering food and said oh maybe he would get some dinner too as he was starting to feel hungry and he didn’t want to leave it too long or it could make him unwell. He mentioned to my DF that he might order a pizza. My DF just said “no. I’m cooking dinner. I’ve bought a ham!” My relative’s wife said “but it’s getting on a bit and you haven’t started cooking yet and [relative] really needs to eat soon or he’ll be unwell. Couldn’t we order some food here? The food looks nice and we’re having a nice time” My DF just no. They couldn’t order food as he had a ham. She asked him if he could maybe cook the ham tomorrow instead. He was so rude then. Asked “and when am I supposed to cook this ham then? Is that tomorrow before we go and meet [other relative] for dinner or after???” Then he abruptly said my relatives needed to drink up immediately so he could go and cook this ham. I said “but we’ve only just got here! We’ve come to see them. You can’t all leave”. And he was getting quite nasty by this point as his routine and plans were potentially being derailed and he sneers at us “no we have to leave right away! Come on. [Relative] is hungry and needs to eat now. I have to get home and start cooking for him!!” And he starts ushering them out the pub. They are obviously really upset. My relative says to me he doesn’t want visit again as DF always spoils things.

I was discussing this last night and said the thing is (1) he doesn’t read their reaction and doesn’t see he’s upsetting them, but (2) even if we spelled out to him that he is upsetting them he would just reply “but I have to cook the ham!”

Other people’s feelings do not ever trump his own priorities. And his own priorities are usually things like sticking to his routines rigidly. The upset that causes to other people would not be more important than sticking to his plan. People are just less important than his plans. And to have a close relationship with someone who just doesn’t see your feelings are more important than their priorities is soul destroying. Eventually people have had enough and they are entitled to walk away. Disability or not. I don’t care. No one should have to accept this as their lot in life when they could be happier on their own. We are allowed to say enough is enough.

What if a partner who was full time carer said they couldn’t cope anymore. That they just couldn’t provide the level of care the other person needed. They were making the awful decision that they would have them put into residential care. We wouldn’t say they’re being unfair and should try harder! We would acknowledge what it has cost them to do as much as they’d done already and what it is costing them to admit that they can’t go on. Yet for the partners of people with ASD some well
meaning people tell them they should be more understanding?! Have more compassion?

Sorry but no. I don’t buy it. We have the right to say that’s enough and living like this is awful and I don’t want to do it anymore and nor would I recommend it to others.

I‘m not saying I am ready to walk from my relationship but I have been close many times. Would I enter it knowing what I know now? No. Do I blame my DM for walking out on us? No. Because I know what it would have cost her to stay. Am I angry to be told but it’s not his fault. Be more understanding! Yes. Actually I am!

Here is the best relationship advice, (for the general population, not just those with ND partners). It’s not how well you get on when things are fine that dictates how strong the relationship is, it’s how you can both deal with matters when things are not going well.

@YesThis this is excellent advice.

And I’d add to this: you can’t change anyone. Only they can (and obviously that’s dependent on their own personal limitations). So don’t start a relationship thinking that X has happened but it’s ok because I’m going to support him and it won’t happen again. Because I’m sorry but it will.

but I have to cook the ham!”

My H says things like this. He’ll just keep repeating a single point over and over and over again. There is nothing one can say or do to shift him from that single focus once he has set on it.

Thank you for replying. I'm sorry you are feeling the same and yes it is exhausting and I still don't have any answers either.

Last weekend's special was;

DW - I told you to get toilet cleaner
Me - they only had bleach or bathroom cleaner
DW - but I wanted toilet cleaner not bleach or bathroom cleaner
Me - but they didn't have what you wanted
DW - but that's what I wanted
Me - but they didn't have what you wanted
DW - but that's what I wanted
Me - I can't buy what isn't there
DW - I'm going to have to take what you bought back.

We have different flavours of this every other day.

In addition to the ham story, i kind of get the opposite- which i guess is the adhd part. Where he says he will definitely cook something specific, so all the rest of us get excited about this and look forward to it, just for it never to materialise. He just cant make a plan and execute it. It would get to the meal time and i’d say “are we not having x” only to find he’s not bought anything or prepped or anything. This would be s bit less annoying if he just said “i know i said i’d do this, but i didnt get round to it” so i could work out a plan b rather than just having nothing to eat ready.

Woman are often overlooked even though we have rhe same struggles because we hold ours in our heads where young boys tend to show it outwardly. It hits woman harder when they have children and becomes unmanageable but even then it's put down to anxiety and depression and misdiagnosed along with you "not trying hard enough" which just damages even further. Most woman have trauma from living with and being misdiagnosed their whole lives. It's a sad truth but keep pushing to be heard and get the diagnosis because unfortunately doctors don't seem to be up to date with autism and adhd in women still.

Sad evening yesterday. We were having such a nice day. All of our DC were here and DP decided to cook a roast for us all. I offered to help but he said everything was under control. Roast was lovely. We all enjoyed it. He was clearing up then his DD came downstairs looking all folorn (as she is prone to) and said the DS had been in her room shouting and wouldn’t stop or get out when she asked him to.

At this point my DP completely flies off the handle. Stands at the bottom of the stairs shouting for his DS to come to him. DS comes out of his bedroom. DP then proceeds to scream and shout at him. DS not allowed to get a word in edgeways. My DS was in my StepDS’s room and he comes out to see what all the shouting is about. DP then shouts at him to get of his DS’s room as his DS is going to spend the rest of the evening in there by himself. My DC don’t respond to the shouting like his do. His DC are scared of him. Mine just think he’s a knob! So when he shouted at my DS to get out now, my DS just gave him the raised eyebrows and basically laughed at him. Unhelpful. But kind of fair enough really. He was being pretty awful.

DP didn’t respond well to that and shouted at my DS some more. A few mins later DP caught my DS trying to sneak back into my step DS’s bedroom. Well that was it!!!! Now my DS got the swearing and shouting treatment, how dare he go in there when he’s been told not to etc. it was a fair point but delivered badly (as usual by screaming, swearing and shouting!)

My DP then proceeds to have a go at me! How my bad parenting is the problem. Why can’t I just parent my DS properly??? He is rude and disrespectful etc.

I reply that I don’t appreciate being shouted at. If he means “parent better” that I need to parent more like him (by screaming and shouting) I am simply not going to do that. I am not commenting about his parenting and I don’t feel it’s his place to judge mine. We parent differently, that is all. Had he not shouted at my DS in the first place but instead spoken to him calmly and respectfully then he might have got a better response. And that shouting at people will generally in life not get the best of them. Anyway none of this gets through to him. And he continues shouting at me. Despite repeated requests for him to please stop the shouting. He also tells me he thinks shouting at his DS and my DS was a perfectly reasonable thing to do given the situation!!!!!

My DF is the same. Shouting is normal. Shouting is fine. I’m not saying I never shout at my DC. I do. But rarely and only when utterly exasperated! I will always try and handle things calmly and by talking to them.

Later my DD told me she had been in the room when my step DS had “shouted” at his sister and refused to leave. She said he wasn’t shouting at all! Just talking loudly and directing her what to do (which is just how he speaks. He has no volume control and thinks he is in charge). He was probably being a bit annoying and bossy but nothing more than that.

All that shouting and unpleasantness for nothing! My DP could easily have sat down and discussed calmly with his DC what had happened. But instead he thinks the way to parent is to be incredibly strict, refuse to allow anyone else to speak by shouting over them and not allow any different point of view to be heard. It’s the same when he has disagreements with me. He just shuts me down by shouting at me. Louder and louder until I stop talking. He genuinely thinks this is normal, reasonable and proportionate!!!! I do worry his DC will grow up thinking this is how to behave.

I went to bed as I said I’m not going to stand there and be shouted at. DP stayed downstairs. Is now in a massive grump and barely speaking to me.

@BustyLaRoux why do you stay with him? I don't think you share children/finances/house. I am sure he has some redeeming qualities (I hope so!), but I can't imagine what they are to make it worth subjecting your kids and yourself to this horrible domestic dynamic.

I know you don't shout at your children, but you do expose them (regularly?) to a grown man imposing his will on children through anger and shouting. All the kids, his and yours, are absorbing that someone who is angry and shouts as a first response is to be tolerated. You can't save his kids from the shouting, but you can save yours from the shouting and show both sets that being angry and shouty isn't normal and to be tolerated?

I am absolutely not judging you for staying with him, I am just interested in what makes you stay?

I completely hear what you’re saying UpsideDownside and thank you for expressing it in non-judgemental terms. I often ask myself similar questions. I speak often to my DC about how unacceptable his behaviour is. How shouting isn’t the way to get what you want. As I say they look at him souring and think he’s a dick! I’m not saying that them being subjected to it is OK, just that we use it as a lesson in how not to behave and they feel sorry for his DC.

Why do I stay? Well there are some very complex financials which I won’t go into. But also he is extremely kind. He cooks their favourite meals. Takes them out to places they like so I can get some work done. Buys games or treats he thinks they would like. Watches music documentaries with my DS and is giving him a musical education. He regularly brings me little gifts and cooks for me as I struggle to eat proper meals if left to my own devices. He will drop what he’s doing to give me or them a lift somewhere. He is thoughtful and generous and we all laugh a lot. Having spent 20 years in a marriage where I did all the graft and was manipulated and bullied, it is nice that he pulls his weight and I get to be lazy!! I wasn’t allowed to be lazy in my old life. I was up at 5am every day. I did everything. All the childcare. All the cleaning. And I worked full time. I never stopped while my now ex DH did what he wanted. I am so appreciative of a man who enjoys seeing me put my feet up! He is loving and affectionate and we have a great physical relationship.

There are many plus sides. But yes a large shouty downside. I am trying to change his behaviour. He used to be so much worse. Believe it or not this is an improvement! It’s extremely challenging to try and change the behaviour of someone with ASD. Self reflection and change don’t come naturally. But it is possible.

He genuinely thinks this is normal, reasonable and proportionate!!!!

Unless he’s shouting people down outside the house he only thinks it’s reasonable and proportionate to do it to you. I have what feels like ptsd from outbursts like that. I would wonder if the truth is he resented cooking that roast and clearing up.

@BustyLaRoux 🫂🫂🫂

This is the perfect example as to why you need to get your facts right before exploding. And why shouting is not an appropriate way to communicate or parent.

Fwiw I think he is using you as an emotional punching bag. Hence the shouting at you, saying it’s all your fault etc… He gets to release his anger and stress.
And its not ok!! Might have said that to both dh and dc2 a few times too.

I’ve realised this am that I’m walking on eggshell. I took a decision and I knew dh would be grumpy.

I spent £10 on an insurance (extra cover for an appliance) that I thought would be helpful. Was on the phone with her and dh heard.
Cue for THE look telling me ‘what the heck have you done?’
I finished the call, explained and had a ‘hmm’ as an answer alongside a face full of contempt and judgement.

Im sure he would have denied it if I had made any comment too.

Now there isn’t anything really visible about the whole interaction. No words were exchanged. But I’m left feeling crap.

I was wondering if he’d resented the clearing up too. I should have offered to help really. I have thanked him a few times.

He is obsessed with fault and blame. So my DS didn’t behave well, as he is prone to as a teenage boy who thinks he can do what he likes unless taken to task! I don’t disagree with my DP that he shouldn’t have snuck into the room of my step DS but I would have handled it completely differently. In fact I did. I went upstairs and spoke to my DS and said I was sorry my DP shouted at him but that he hadn’t helped the situation by enflaming things and not doing as asked. He agreed it was unhelpful and had made things difficult for me. But we also both agreed my DP is a dick for all the shouting. He is a child unfazed by most things so wasn’t upset in the slightest!!! I wish I had his attitude sometimes as he doesn’t let shit like this affect him. I know people will say he must be internalising everything but I know my DS and he has always been a child who was unfazed by things. He just shrugs and gets on with life!

It’s a shame that he feels shouting at people is the best way to make himself understood. I have explained that when he shouts at me I cannot hear the actual words. It’s not possible to actually listen and digest what someone is saying when they’re shouting at me!

I am going to just walk off when he starts shouting. Calmly speaking to him doesn’t calm him down. I do wonder if I have some PTSD related to my DF shouting at me throughout my childhood. He shouted at me the other week when I had gone round to do him a favour! I just walked out of his house and drove home without doing the favour he wanted!!! He then of course started sending me the nasty text messages. I ignored. I refuse to engage with him if he shouts at me. I need to do the same with my DP.

I am also seeking therapy to help me. And to revisit my childhood. I thought it was all resolved in my head but being with someone who is also ASS has made a lot of the trauma I must have experienced come back up. It’s good in a way as I have never had any support for it. Always assumed I had dealt with at all pretty well. Not even thought of it in terms of it being trauma. But I now realise how awful it was. My DP, ironically, is very supportive and was probably the first person I spoke to about my childhood who was like WTF??! That’s awful. You should seek help for that. Obviously the irony is that his lack of awareness means he doesn’t understand he is guilty of many of the things my DF has done!!! My DF being a far more extreme case though. My DP shares some similarities yes, but he is a much much nicer person than my DF!

@SpecialMangeTout my DH would do that. Humps and sighs, eye rolls, but doesn’t say why they have a problem (but you kind of know what it is). Thats the sort of thing my DH would get irrationally grumpy about, but if I turned round and said let’s get takeaway/new electronic device for say £100 he would go, “great”.

@BustyLaRoux re your ds reaction, i just want to share with you my own experience.

My dad has always been the one shouting and flying off the handle. Still is.
I remember clearly as a teen having a few adults witnessing his outburst and asking me if everything was ok - huge surprise to me that maybe things were pretty bad as it was my normal. I actually didn’t get it at the time.

my mum also commented that ‘I shouldn’t be taking what my dad said to heart’ after one of his shouting. And I told her ‘that I knew very well when it wasn’t important and to simply ignore’, which reminds me a lot of your ds reaction to your dh.

Except … I might have found a way to deal with said shouting then. But it has left me with the need to constantly manage other people’s emotions. I always have a heighten awareness of other people’s emotional state as well as the tendency to believe I’m at the root of it. It took me years and years to realise that too. Which I now realise has made me the ideal partner for dh - one that tolerated his (silent) outburst and judgements and thought it had to be me at fault. I think that’s what kept our marriage going for so long tbh.

Reminded me of the time I went to DF’s house after he had broken a bone as he said he needed help putting clean sheets on his bed. I got there (have driven over in my lunch break). He is making a sandwich. I ask if he has got the sheets ready. He says no (no notion that it might be nice to have them ready for when I get there. Ho hum, never mind).

I say could I go and get them then? If he tells me where they are. He says no, he has to get them himself as I won’t know which ones.

Sigh.

I ask if he could please go and get them so I can put them on the bed for him while he is eating his sandwich maybe..? He says no, he needs to finish making AND EATING his sandwich!! He tells me I will just have to wait.

This is normal behaviour for him. It doesn’t matter I’m taking time out of my working day to come and help him and would like to get on with it as I’m due back at work. Doesn’t think it would have been a good idea to get the sheets out for me. Doesn’t see any problem with making my stand there for 15 minutes while he makes and eats a sandwich. He won’t let me get the sheets. He won’t get them for me other than at the time HE specifies (after the sandwich has been eaten). He won’t change his plan to assist me to do the favour he wants done. Seems almost indignant to be asked to please put the sandwich on hold for two mins.!!

Oh and whilst eating the offending sandwich he then tells me he didn’t need me to come really as he could have just got his cleaner to change the sheets for him, but, he says, he would rather have me do it!!! 😳😫😡

Thats awful. Are you ever tempted just not to bother?