Counsellor didn't recognise abuse

[Superlambaanana]

I have recently come out of a 9 year relationship with someone I now believe was emotionally abusive. We did counselling last year and I recorded the sessions on voicememos on my phone. (Not for any sinister reason, and mever told anyone I did this. It was just so I could listen back later to fully absorb the points). At the time we felt the therapy helped. The relationship went on for another 15 months before we broke up finally.

At one of the sessions I said I sometimes felt afraid of him and he blew up in the therapy room. The therapist then suggested we do solo sessions for the next two weeks. I just listened back to my solo session and it is so glaringly obvious to me now that I was in an abusive, controlling relationship.

I told her numerous stories in that solo session about how he went mad if I didn't immediately agree to what he said. That I had made massive changes in my life as a result of him making nasty comments about me (I stopped drinking and smoking, lost weight, moved because he wanted to etc etc). That he shut me down by shouting in my face in a really scary way if I tried to talk about any issues. That once he'd calmed down I was always expected to never mention the issue/ row again.

And I told her I was afraid of being alone and that was pretty much the only reason why I stayed with him, but I also felt he pushed me to be a better person by forcing me to do things to improve myself.

She asked me why I said I was scared in the previous session - did I feel he would be violent? and when I said no, I'm afraid when he shouts in my face and I'm afraid I'll be trapped forever in a miserable relationship, she said "well he and I assumed you meant violence when you said you are frightened. That's why he blew up. You should have put it differently last week and you need to think about how you say things' FFS!

This wasn't some two bit, barely trained counsellor. She owned a large counselling company and we paid a premium to have her as one of the most experienced relationship counsellors in the area.

I know that doesn't mean she's not useless. But honestly aren't these people trained to sniff out abuse. I honestly think if she had probed a bit more perhaps I would have woken up to the bleeding obvious and got out far sooner!

I feel like reporting her! But obviously I can't reveal I have it all on tape!

Advice?

You knew it was problematic at the time, because you kept it secret. Yes, your partner would have refused. He had a right to refuse. You could have asked permission from your counsellor, but you didn't. You kept it secret, and it would have had to be a concious decision to do so.

No this discussion is completely different as is writing notes after.

I would stop defending the recording OP - it was an absolute violation of boundaries. It's also a distraction for everyone reading because I'll be honest, it adds to the sense that your therapist observed more than you gave her credit for, both in your ex's behaviour AND your own.

You're free now. Delete the unauthorised recordings, consider individual counselling and live your best life!

It's a whole world of wrong.

Recording suggests that this could have been kept to prove abuse within the relationship by someone who is trying to prove their innocence.

I've heard women being tolds to covertly record at home to log the abuse, or to secretly film DV, I think it's a good idea.
Did you ever do this op ? What would have been heard, you say he shouted a lot, and you say that he would get angry because you would not speak, was that the silent treatment on your behalf, see context is everything.

As another poster stated shouting doesn't always equate abuse, and silence doesn't always mean you are being abused.

To record the sessions without consent could be construed as controlling and could enable you to engineer the situation to make you appear the stable, logical and reasonable partner, at home you could have been an entirely different partner, maybe the councillor saw his passion for the ralationship and your indifference ?

I think the councillor recognised your need to control the situation and the responses that came from those joint sessions

I have a feeling the councillor thought your h was being wrongly accused of abuse and that you were tying to control the narrative, is that why you are so angry with her ?

You disagree with her assesment, but you are separated now so why the need to ruminate, why the need to chastise this councillor, is it a conclusion to the whole relationship that you need to be right, because it's only been a year and maybe you'll find it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

Let's hope you don't write an Op-Ed.

You are comparing two very different scenarios, context is important. In the example of a woman walking home alone scared would mean of physical harm/rape/murder. That's not the same as fearing aggression or potential violence in a relationship.

Am I allowed to use the word scared when my XH has been physically violent in the presence of me and our children but only by viciously kicking objects whiel screaming at us? Is that 'deserving' enough of the word, or does it only count if he's actually hit me? Am I allowed to say I'm scared because I fear he will hit me? Am I allowed to be scared that he'll terrify our kids again? Do I have to add a caveat every time I use the words fear or scared to say he hasn't been physically violent (yet), just garden variety emotionally and mentally abusive. I don't think my situation is any more deserving of using that language, but I am wondering where you draw your line between those who are aloud to say their scared and those that aren't.

your IMMEDIATE reaction to the word scared, is a fear of harm but only certain harms count according to you. She did fear harm from her ex, mental and emotional harm. So while she's feeling afraid thinking about what he's put her through and what she fears he may do in future she should be carefully picking her words to make sure she doesn't upset her abuser? He has harmed her and she is afraid he will harm her more. She is feeling fear, she is scared.

@RandomForest you've got me all wrong. And look that's fine. It's a comment board and you're jumping to conclusions which are incorrect because you don't have the whole story.

I didn't know i was in an abusive relationship when I was in it. The thought never crossed my mind. I thought I was just as much the problem as him. I wasn't recording to create 'evidence' or manipulate. It was just to create a record to help me learn and try to help make it work. At that stage I desperately wanted it to work.

This is all blowing my mind a bit.

You were completely out of order to record without consent.

It is not the same as taking notes or discussing it anonymously now.

@LameBorzoi and @SquirrelSoShiny

Have made some really good and relevant points.

I would actually challenge you to find a counsellor who DOES make notes during sessions op. It is widely considered a thing to be kept out of the counselling sessions to ensure the clients feel the focus is on them. Also if scribbling away you can get paranoid about what they are writing. I guarantee you she did keep notes just after you had left.

I cant help but wonder about your contract with her. Many counsellors have in their contract that there can not be any recording without mutual concent.

I agree with those who have commented that secretly recording is a huge breach of trust. I won't comment on your view of what occurred as it is your view. Your counsellor will have seen a different side and it may be her story is different yet.

I like others am happy you made it out of that relationship.

@Mrsttcno1 so should I not have said I felt scared of him in the therapy session? Even though I did feel scared of him?

Honestly, OP, I'm beginning to wonder if you are downplaying the implication of physical assault the way you downplayed the recording. And if that is the case, then the counsellor was well justified in pulling you up on imying that.

(I'm not saying that verbal /emotional assault isn't important. It does, however, warrant a different response and has different implications).

@LameBorzoi so how would you have articulated it in my situation? I'm actually interested in what words you think i should have used other than saying he made me scared sometimes.

Are you still planning on contacting this councillor ?

@RandomForest I'm not sure. I'd only contact her if I wanted to persuade her that she had missed something.

Who suggested councelling in the first instance ?

You'll get gaslighted (gaslit?) here fyi

I came back en this thread hoping the sensible brigade had arrived. Seems not. Agree op is being gaslit here. If she is afraid of a man yelling in her face and she tells the counsellor, that person should take it seriously. I know my therapist was concerned when I said my DH's words can drastically alert my mood, get me really down. I'm certain if I'd said he'd yelled in my face and frightened me she would have had serious concerns. She would never never have implied or told me it was my fault or that I should have expressed things differently or should watch my words. Never ever.

Obviously people lose their shit. I'm sure I've yelled at my partner more than once. What comes after though is a direct indicator of the level of abuse. Is there a genuine apology? A making amends? Does it reoccur? Do they acknowledge they have an anger management problem? Or do they only say it's your fault? Big difference.

I think you should report her.

Unfortunately you can't mention the recorded session without dropping yourself in it though.

I had couples counselling with my ex, he's a total narc. Neither of them picked up on it. Frustrating.

I think a few people on this thread are determined to believe that I said I was scared in order to deliberately mislead the counsellor into thinking I was being physically abused. And that I recorded the sessions in order to create false evidence that I was being physically abused. I wasn’t being physically abused, and I wasn’t trying to imply that I was or trick anyone.

But I was afraid of him, and I made a number of attempts to explain in the sessions why that was - that he screamed at me, I always had to immediately agree to what he wanted, he was unhappy if I was out for too long etc and that I was afraid of the consequences of even raising these issues.

In hindsight I think she should have subtly suggested that I was in a controlling relationship or confirmed that this was unreasonable of him. But instead I continued with counselling and the relationship because I believed - and the direction of the questioning in the counselling appeared to confirm - that I had as much responsibility for causing him to behave in these ways as he did for reacting and acting the way he did.

I seemed to spend an awful lot of time in the relationship trying to rationalise why my behaviour was ok and why what i was doing didn't merit the reaction i got from him, but he always dismissed any points i made. I suppose that was gaslighting. I seem to find myself in the same position here, so I think it probably is best to leave this thread now before I end up down a pointless rabbithole!

@Superlambaanana I don’t think people suggested that you tried to fabricate anything to mislead your counsellor. You attended the sessions for a valid reason, but you lost a lot of credibility when you defeated your choice to record the sessions.

Think about it the shoe was on the other foot. You attend a counselling session, open yourself up to a lot of pain and shame, just to find out that someone captured the whole thing. Even if their intentions were harmless you’d still be mortified, wouldn’t you?

Nobody here can safely confirm that your counsellor was negligent or out of line, because we weren’t there. Report her if you genuinely think that she failed in her job, but be aware that your word will not be accepted as gospel.

Bollocks!
She knew she was being/would continue to be gaslighted.
The words ‘I’m afraid’ are not code for he hits me, and it’s really disingenuous to say otherwise. It means “I’m afraid of how his verbal aggression will next escalate.” We might find out there were a few subtle shoulder bargings or ‘accidental’ toes being walked on.

I cannot believe how many people are siding with an abuser. It’s atrocious.

For me her recording the session is a really strong indicator that massive gaslighting was happening. It doesn’t make her lose credibility (what a disgusting thing to say to an abused woman) on the contrary- it indicates veracity.

Totally this.

There are always two sides to the story and whilst I always give the female the benefit of the doubt there are cases whereby people do collate evidence to prove abuse.

One famous case being Jonny Depp and Amber Heard, not saying at all this is what's happening her but innitially op was going in all guns blazing wanting to wreck a woman's career, I just think that needs investigating before op defiantly says the woman was acting unprofessionally.

Maybe op if you contact the councillor and air your point of view and see what she says before reporting her.

Counsellors don't usually take notes. Notes are written up afterwards. Recording someone without their consent it a complete breach of trust (as both the client and the counsellor).

As for your original post yes, your position should have been recognised as DV. It is strange it wasn't, however counsellors are human and do make mistakes. As someone else said if you feel very strongly it might be better to ring her and ask did she recognise the violence and why wasn't it pointed out.

@randomforest i would normally ignore someone like you but you really are a piece of work.

I came on here to say I think in hindsight I was in an abusive relationship and that I wish it had been pointed out to me by a relationship councillor who had more than enough information to spot it. I said ‘I feel like reporting her’. I didn't say I was actually going to report her. I didn’t come on ‘guns blazing’ or ‘wanting to wreck a woman’s career’.

You’ve asked a lot of odd questions like who wanted to separate, and who’s happier now we’ve broken up,

You’ve accused me of:

1. pushing for a separation (nonsense - we were having counselling to save our relationship and didn't break up for over a year after the counselling ended),

1. acting in the sessions (nonsense - I didn't act or try to catch anyone out),

1. being unstable - "acting to appear stable" (offensive nonsense),

1. being controlling/ controlling the situation (more offensive nonsense),

1. maliciously accusing him of physically abusing me (even more nonsense), and

1. to top it all off you’ve accused me of having made him angry/ deserving the abuse by giving him the silent treatment (in response to me saying sometimes I was afraid to speak). I mean wtaf?!!

And finally, you used the word female as a noun in your last response.

I am highly suspicious that you are a man - and an abusive man at that.