Counsellor didn't recognise abuse

[Superlambaanana]

I have recently come out of a 9 year relationship with someone I now believe was emotionally abusive. We did counselling last year and I recorded the sessions on voicememos on my phone. (Not for any sinister reason, and mever told anyone I did this. It was just so I could listen back later to fully absorb the points). At the time we felt the therapy helped. The relationship went on for another 15 months before we broke up finally.

At one of the sessions I said I sometimes felt afraid of him and he blew up in the therapy room. The therapist then suggested we do solo sessions for the next two weeks. I just listened back to my solo session and it is so glaringly obvious to me now that I was in an abusive, controlling relationship.

I told her numerous stories in that solo session about how he went mad if I didn't immediately agree to what he said. That I had made massive changes in my life as a result of him making nasty comments about me (I stopped drinking and smoking, lost weight, moved because he wanted to etc etc). That he shut me down by shouting in my face in a really scary way if I tried to talk about any issues. That once he'd calmed down I was always expected to never mention the issue/ row again.

And I told her I was afraid of being alone and that was pretty much the only reason why I stayed with him, but I also felt he pushed me to be a better person by forcing me to do things to improve myself.

She asked me why I said I was scared in the previous session - did I feel he would be violent? and when I said no, I'm afraid when he shouts in my face and I'm afraid I'll be trapped forever in a miserable relationship, she said "well he and I assumed you meant violence when you said you are frightened. That's why he blew up. You should have put it differently last week and you need to think about how you say things' FFS!

This wasn't some two bit, barely trained counsellor. She owned a large counselling company and we paid a premium to have her as one of the most experienced relationship counsellors in the area.

I know that doesn't mean she's not useless. But honestly aren't these people trained to sniff out abuse. I honestly think if she had probed a bit more perhaps I would have woken up to the bleeding obvious and got out far sooner!

I feel like reporting her! But obviously I can't reveal I have it all on tape!

Advice?

Report her. She sounds incompetent and negligent.

@Coyoacan How would you feel if someone were covertly recording you at work? I expect that if the clinican knew of this, she would feel very violated.

Recording clinicians is a first go-to for people looking to bully or control a clinician (I'm not saying that this is what you were intending, OP). If you are caught, expect to be banned and/or have a warning put in your file.

One of the problems that it's so problematic is that some things can look very different with the benefit of hindsight. OP has had over a year to process and think about those sessions.

@Superlambaanana I'm not a relationship counsellor, but I am trained in some of the techniques that they might use.

For many issues, it's not the counsellor's job to tell you that you are, eg, in an abusive relationship. Unless you are in immediate physical danger, that's not a decision that anyone can make for you. The counsellor's job is to give you the tools for you to make that decision for yourself. It takes time to do that - it's been a bit over year since those sessions, which would be a pretty standard time frame to think about big life changes like that.

Some of you are really brutal and seem to be get into a right tizz about this. eg @RandomForest I'm sorry for not answering your question/s! I can only see one - what was the reason for the therapy. It was to try to save our relationship by improving communication. Neither of us wanted to break up at that time. Not sure why that's relevant here though.

The recording is a tricky issue I accept that and I'm interested in the different takes. I would be suspicious of somebody who told me they did this so I don't blame any of you for thinking it was wrong of me. Abusive and controlling is nonsense as ai never intended to and have not done anything with them - and will never do anything with them. It was not about others, it was about me being able to hear what he and the therapist said and properly absorb it again later. Sometimes I did understand something better on a second listen.

Motive and self discipline are important here. Someone who might be even remotely tempted to use a recording, or who might be susceptible to getting obsessive about going over old ground should definitely avoid doing this.

I'd be surprised if the therapist didn't record the sessions. She never took any notes. And it wouldn't bother me if she did. I can't see any malevolent intent she could have or any unacceptable use she could put a recording to.

What file is this you speak of? The one that the being in the sky maintains on each of us? The therapy wasn't nhs.

If it was the important ot you to record why not just ask at the begining of the session?

This. She is absolutely useless. I knew my Ex would never hit me but my limbic system sure as hell didn’t. The Adrenalin and cortisol would run round my body for hours after one of his verbal attacks. I got to the point of being tense and on edge just when he was in the house. Of course it’s terrifying.

This is exactly why I would never go to relationship counselling with him. I was terrified of getting a counselor like that who would shore him up and make things worse.

@Mrsttcno1

You are deeply ignorant of the effect of verbal aggression and abuse. It’s frightening and deeply psychologically harmful.

Regarding the file : I was meant on general terms (and in reply to a PP), not about your situation specifically. I meant that most clinicians would take covert recording very, very seriously.

In normal relationships if one person told the other they found their behaviour frightening, the person being told that would be concerned, ask more about it and be mortified.

Blowing a gasket shows you are a frightening person. And that you are trying to silence your partner so her grievances can’t be heard.

Trying to pretend you said they beat you is manipulative technique so your behaviour can’t be challenged.

A good counsellor would clarify what she meant and then deal with what was brought.

OPs partner used quitetried and tested manipulative tactics to gain control of the situation and succeeded in extending his control via the counsellor into OPs solo session. Via her, he managed to shift blame for his outburst onto OP whilst leaving her fears unaddressed.

@nomoreacorns Of course there were toxic behaviours happening, that's why they were getting counselling!

And the counsellor did clarify OP's meaning - OP has already speculated that that was why the subsequent session was with the OP on her own.

You were 100% in the wrong for recording your therapy sessions without your therapist's permission. I've been observed and recorded in several arenas professionally and have no problem with it. However what you did was wrong.

Your therapist would be sanctioned (if registered) for recording sessions without consent. In services I have worked in, clients would be exited for doing this.

I'm sorry if you feel like this is an attack but you crossed a real boundary here and your casual dismissal of it makes me wonder what other boundaries you are casual about. I'm wondering if your therapist observed other things that made her challenge you on how you spoke about things.

I'm glad you left a relationship that was obviously feeling harmful. His behaviour sounds very unreasonable and aggressive. My other comments don't change that. I'm genuinely glad you left him.

And on reading again were these joint sessions you recorded? In which case you violated the whole basis of counselling.

It's all moot now in that you have left your ex and that sounds like a good decision. I'm just staggered you thought this was appropriate.

@Coyoacan

In making the recording, the OP demonstrated a blatant disregard for the rights to privacy of both her ex and the therapist.

Neither of these people knew that this was happening. Neither consented, and both had an expectation of privacy in that setting.

OP is filled with righteous indignation about what she perceives as a failing on the part of the therapist, but her invasion of the privacy of both her ex and the therapist is just an exercise in self entitlement.

You said earlier that you have a recording of the session during your partner blew up. That means rate that you recorded the joint sessions as well, not just the 1:1s with your counsellor.
Sorry but to me that sounds like you had an agenda from the start, or at least trust issues with the counsellor.
Tell me. How would you feel if you found out that your partner had covertly recorded the sessions? Would you have an issue with it then? I am surprised that you can’t see how wrong this is on so many different levels, and what this says about your mindset when you started counselling.

Posters seem incredibly keen on giving OP an answer to a question she did not ask.

She's coming to terms with the abusive dynamics of her relationship. No-one who doesn't understand this need should be responding. She recorded counselling sessions so she'd be able to review what happened when she had the head space - which is what she's doing now.

Her question was about the counsellor's presumption in speaking for the husband, and dismissal of OP's stated fear.

If you're a therapist who can't tolerate the thought of clients keeping records, start your own thread.

what this says about your mindset when you started counselling

FFS, what mindset do you require of a partner who's being intimidated and gaslighted in her relationship?

Insecure, unable to trust either her partner's claimed recollections or her own, anxious to know whether her fears are rational or not, overwhelmed ... it's understandable to want a factual record of proceedings, don't you think?

Asking the partner's permission to record is going to get a predictable answer.

@GarlicGrace There is a huge difference between keeping records and recording people without their consent. A problematic relationship is not an excuse to trample over the rights of a third person. It's a clear breach of client - clinician boundaries.

With the clinician "speaking for her husband": this is a couple that presented for relationship counselling. Feedback on communication style is a normal part of this. __

I challenge you to find a clinician that wouldn't immediately terminate the therapeutic relationship upon discovering covert recording.

I'll be honest - normally my default starting point would be exactly what you're saying. I'm actually very happy to hear that the relationship has ended.

But I would just like to point out:

• Recording a counselling session without explicit consent is a MASSIVE violation of trust. It is a huge boundary that has been crossed and treated quite casually. It actually doesn't matter if the OP had 'pure' motives it was a breach of boundaries.

• Because of this I wonder if the counsellor (experienced and with a good reputation according to the OP) had a different perspective on what she was hearing. We are only hearing the OP's side of things- for obvious reasons! Maybe the counsellor saw problematic behaviours on both sides but thought that improved communication would help resolve things one way or the other.

• If the counsellor acted unethically I would always encourage people to make a complaint but actually the OP was the one who behaved unethically.

• The one who shouts is not always the abuser. Sometimes the 'abuse' is reactive to other more subtle abuse. We weren't there, we don't know what else was observed by the therapist.

I have read the OP closely, it's not just about shouting of course. It just sounds like a really unhealthy relationship has come to an end and I'm happy for the OP. I just suspect there is more to the story and that's ok, the OP doesn't owe us any explanations.

OP - I hope you aren't put off having individual therapy now. It will give you a neutral space to come to terms with everything

@SquirrelSoShiny That's an excellent summary.

There are some very heated responses here and I will reflect on how upset some of you have got about the recording. I'm not dismissing your concerns about it.

I'm not feeling 'righteous indignation' though nor did I take the decision to record the sessions casually. I take very seriously the risk that it could have been discovered and of course that would have led to immediate distrust and yes, the therapist rightly kicking me out. I also took and take seriously the need to only use the recordings for myself and never share them.

If i had asked permission he would definitely have said no. He used the sessions to manipulate even without knowing I was recording. The therapist said often that he was 'watching her watching me' and she felt he was looking for cues from her about how to respond to me. I now feel most of the therapy was about me saying things I found challenging in the relationship - him justifying or brushing those things away - and her saying we needed to communicate better. Which was true because we did. I just wish she had also pointed out some of his behaviour was unacceptable. I wonder now did she think i was overreacting to this apparently very nice guy?

Would you all have been ok if I had gone home and immediately after each session written down notes of the meetings with a fresh memory? That's essentially what I was seeking to achieve with the voicememo. Would you expect me to have asked the therapist and my ex for permission to do that?

Often we recall a conversation differently from the way it was. My ex had a knack of making me think I was losing it/ was unreasonable/ just not listening to him/ respecting him - ie it was all me and if I could just do what he wanted/ cheer up/ etc then everything would be ok. I don't believe he was entirely to blame but if you'd asked me a month ago I'd have said we were 50/50 to blame. I'm now realising it was much more on him. I didn't shout, demand or control where he went and for how long. I bent over backwards and when I tried to deviate even slightly from his plan I got screamed at. It wasn't me. It was him.

Also, thanks to everyone who's saying well done for getting out and glad you've left that toxic relationship! I am bloody glad to be out of it!

The fact that you can't see the difference between the recording and making notes is worrying.

I can see the difference because of the potential to use a recording against someone. But contemporaneous notes could also be used against someone.

If we follow this logic, then isn't even this debate here on an anonymous forum morally iffy?