Row with DH - totally confused

[Needsomeadvice0923]

Argh so annoying. Just had a really strange row with DH and would appreciate some perspective.

We were talking about some home improvements we need doing, and I said I wanted a day or two to think about / research some ideas before talking further.

(Argh this is so stupid, sorry).

Anyway, DH kept pushing me for answers and the conversation suddenly descended into him calling me names - character assassination type stuff (I’m this, I’m that) rather than swearing iyswim - to the point that I asked him to stop and leave the room, as it was becoming a really unpleasant (and in my mind: juvenile) row.

But he carried on. Standing with his arms folded
and basically just being mean. So I told him I was removing myself from the situation and went into the bathroom (I was just about to jump in the shower anyway before the row) and locked the door to get away from him.

He suddenly followed behind me and tried to open the door. Tbh I originally thought he had punched the door behind me in anger, so I opened it and just said ‘stop’ (we have kids downstairs). To which he put his foot in the door so I couldn’t close it again and stood in the doorway in order to continue having a go at me. I said repeatedly he was being physically aggressive and I would like him to leave me alone. And ideally just leave the house entirely.

We then had this totally ridiculous back and forth where he tells me how awful I am (stuff like I’m patronising, have no respect, am terrible at communication) and I tell him using his physicality to intimidate me in a row is unacceptable. I asked him repeatedly to leave me alone but he just wouldn’t. To the point that I momentarily thought about calling the police (or his mum!) but realised it would sound totally ridiculous.

Eventually he moved from the door so I could close it. I locked the door and shouted “stop bullying me!”

TBH I’m really confused. He just blew his top. I honestly don’t know if it’s bad or not, or how bad it is, if it’s bad at all. I just really didn’t know what to do. I’m perfectly happy to discuss things reasonably with him, but rowing like this with DH is so tiresome and destructive.

I know he’s worried about our finances at the moment. We’re a bit up against it with the mortgage rises and our jobs are not secure either so it’s all a bit stressful right now.

He seems to go though this cycle every few weeks. Everything is fine, then he’s weird and mean, then we go back to normal again. His mean phase is usually just argumentative and short tempered … so this today is unusual.

For clarity - DH has never hit me or anything like that and we’ve been together for almost 20 years. However, once - 10 years ago - he briefly smothered me (in a row, from behind, and to stop me from talking).

WWYD? I’m at a total loss! He won’t see he has done anything wrong and I’m certain is waiting for an apology. Weirdly I’m worried for him more than anything right now.

Sorry this is sooooo long.

Which would show a scary lack of empathy. Not a normal way to try to end a discussion.

@Ohhbaby 1. in a nonabusive relationship you’re correct this is not how arguments go. In an abusive relationship with her totally different dynamics at play which are all about power, it can absolutely blow up in a second from absolutely nothing to full on physical violence. Sometimes it’s because it’s not really about the home decor at all anyway, it’s just an excuse for the abusive man to exert more control. I have 100 percent had arguments like this with my abusive ex. 2. Holding your hand over someone’s nose and mouth especially as a result of arguing with them is absolutely smothering. And it is known statistically (like strangling of any sort, length of duration) to be a huge red flag and warning sign for an abusive man who can be very dangerous indeed physically.

With respect you do not understand what you don’t know here when it comes to abusive relationships. Yes it’s easy for us to say LTB and hard to do and yes it’s not us that will have to live with the consequences. But having suffered through domestic abuse myself I will say that when people do point out to you how bad a situation is in no uncertain terms, it at the very least plants a seed that may later give someone the confidence they need to escape domestic abuse. In my case it was a work colleague who saw fingerprint bruising around the top of my arm where my ex had grabbed me roughly in an argument while I was pregnant and read me the riot act. I didn’t leave then which one hindsight I regret. But it did keep coming back to nag at me the next time there was an incident. So that’s what some of us are trying to provide here and I wouldn’t dream of saying it to someone where there weren’t huge red flags.

If you think this sort of behaviour is not affecting your children, you are completely wrong.

You only need to search on here to find adults damaged by an abusive parent in childhood. You need to safeguard them and yourself.

I don't understand how you could even look at him after he tried to smother you, let alone stay married to him.

It's not weirdness or him being weird. He's physically bullying you and being verbally abusive.

Stopping you shutting a door and blocking your exit is completely unacceptable and as you said, he's using his size to physically bully you. It's quite scary to read and it must have been pretty scary to experience

@readbooksdrinktea I completely agree. Nobody smothers someone “by accident”. In this moment this man intended to shut OP up any way he needed to including the risk of serious harm to her.

Huge red flag right there. I am sorry OP, but that is dangerous and completely unacceptable. Not accidental at all IMO.

@Muchonachomiamigo I don’t disagree with you re: the effect on children which is often minimised until the victim is ready to acknowledge the reality of the abuse. But lecturing her or shaming her about it especially when she is literally in the immediate aftermath of a violent incident and trying to figure out what the heck went so wrong with her life and her relationship and the man she has children with isn’t helpful and just makes people disengage and block out the awful truth that people are trying to help her to comprehend. This is why Women’s Aid or similar are so good. OP was listening to what was being said and processing it without rejecting it outright although she was shocked at this viewpoint and I’d hate her to feel she can’t come back here for fear of criticism in her hour of need.

However, once - 10 years ago - he briefly smothered me (in a row, from behind, and to stop me from talking).

You do realise women die like this? He’s got an explosive temper judging by your row and his behaviour, it’s a small step to completely smothering you.

if he’s worried about money why didn’t he explain that ? His behaviour is seriously worrying.

Fair enough. In my mind I don't get how it could just escalate so wholly unprovoked, but I appreciate that I might come from relationships that are normal and not abusive

Thank you for taking the time to write a response and not just report my post in which I was polite and did not say ops husband were right. I clearly stated he was wrong, but questioned how it escalated. I'd rather it being a learning opportunity than to take down a perfectly reasonable post with maybe a flaw in the argument?

It feels like on MN you have to agree with the majority or your post gets taken down.

You said :"Don’t know here I would start with the finances. And divorce in my wider family is absolutely shameful"

You start by seeing a solicitor, and getting hardwon advice on here from women who have been there, done that.
And divorce is not as shameful as his treatment of you and the damage being done to your kids... because they know... they know.. regardless of what you might think.. regardless of how much you think you are protecting them... kids always know.
This is not about what the rest of the world might think....

@Needsomeadvice0923 I've been where you are - the whole 20 years thing, it wasn't that bad was it, did I imagine it...

and someone, several people, on here said that sadly it was the cycle of abuse, and when I thought about it, it was.

whilst I was working out what to do next he got much, much worse, more nasty behaviour on more occasions, more close together.

eventually I found the strength to say that I wanted a trial separation. He got very nasty then, massive temper tantrums and threatening all sorts...and as soon as he had left I realised that it wasn't a trial at all, I didn't want him back.

I loved him and I didn't want to break up our family which was mostly fine, or so I thought, but the difference in my DC since the divorce is huge, they - and I - have found our old happy, laughing positive selves again, and I have realised how much I had changed trying to keep things calm and the kids safe.

It's not easy to take in, realising that your husband is abusive, and that he has been for many years. Or to accept that you have not realised, or that you have gone along with some of it to keep the peace.

But now that you know, you have choices. Take the time you need to think about what you want to do, and how to do it.

We're all here for you. And I promise there is happiness and freedom on the other side xxx

I also think you need to question the 'But I love him' narrative.

Why do you love him? What about the way he is, is loveable? What is it about the way he treats you that is loveable?

Because from the outside I think that's habit not truth

These might help you to gain a little perspective about his behaviour

@Nanny0gg I certainly thought I loved my husband - partly because I didn't know better but also because my feelings towards him were honest and not the game playing he was doing. And when you are in an abusive relationship it takes a while to understand that you need to base that love on 100% of his behaviour, not just the good bits.

It has taken me a while to stop loving him, I couldn't switch off those feelings overnight, even once I had realised he was abusive. Some of the time he was loveable, and treated me like I was special, and that's why I stayed, that's how abuse works...if they were horrible all the time, especially at the beginning we wouldn't stay.

@Needsomeadvice0923 don't beat yourself up for how you are feeling, it will all be very confusing and conflicted at the moment, just allow your feelings to settle and gradually the way forward will become clear.

@Ohhbaby You were victim blaming an abuse victim. And suggested she had done something to incite his behaviour. That's not a 'reasonable' argument.

Frankly I don't think you know how damaging your post can be to an abuse victim

You certainly don't have the right to get huffy because you got deleted.

Habit is easier than change I guess?

I really appreciate everyone’s point of view and perspective. I don’t feel any judgement just lots of support and it all helps to process and work out what actually happened.

in regards the escalation - I don’t get it either. I know it sounds bonkers but I didn’t egg
him on or anything like that. He seemed to wind himself up without any help from me.

Will let the situation calm down and report back.

I've also been there - 25 years of it.

It is abuse. If you Google narcissistic abuse, or look it up in YouTube, you can find lots of information. It is a very clear pattern I am afraid.

I was also in @lululongdog s situation. Fairly low level abuse to begin with (both emotionally, financially and later physical intimidation) and then it got a bit worse but the instances were few and far between. It messes with your mind because essentially you don't want the bad stuff to happen and when it's infrequent you learn to get over it in between. I also agree with a PP who said: He sounds like someone who has to make an effort to be normal.most of the time but then slips when not getting his way and sometimes REALLY slips.

This exactly my ex of 20 years. Please get out. The divorce process will likely be unpleasant but the relief when you are free is absolutely worth it.

He’s fine apart from occasional weirdness like this
I was going to type I bet there’s a lot more “weirdness” (aggression) you’re minimising and then the drips came in the subsequent posts.

I’m willing to bet he is a shit dad too.

PPs have given you good advice, women’s aid is a good start.

You are minimising it by calling it "occasional weirdness"....it's domestic violence.

You may love this man but you are living with an unpredictable, hot tempered, intimidating and voilent man. Just because it's not daily, doesn't mean it's not bad. It only takes once time for him to go too far and you're dead.

Please for your sake and your children's sake, break free from this.

@Ohhbaby thanks for coming back having reflected on it. I completely agree that you have simply not experienced abusive relationship dynamics. One of the tactics of an abuser is called “crazy making” for a reason! Living in an abusive relationship doesn’t follow the normal rules of logic and can make you feel like you’re losing your mind.

It can definitely be an echo chamber as well as a viper’s nest on here at times but I appreciate it when people are able to really consider what someone with a different view point has to say.

Briefly smothered you, wtf????

You say you love him. Which part of his character do you love, because I’d find it incredibly hard to respect or love him/his behaviour.

@Needsomeadvice0923 I’m glad you’ve found it helpful to talk things through on here. By all means allow things to calm down and look after yourself and your kids but don’t leave this alone forever. I understand the enormity of it and all those thoughts about finances and the perceived shame and stigma of divorce (I’m from a rather conservative Christian family and background so I get it totally). Have a proper think about what’s been said and consider talking to a domestic abuse support worker, please be assured they will not pressure you and will help you to figure out what is going on and what to do next. It would be good to confide in people IRL what’s going on as well and also to get some sort of log started of this sort of behaviour in case you need it later even if it’s just noting it in a diary (if it’s an electronic diary it will be date stamped) or even better sending a text to a friend or letting police know what’s happened. I very much regretted not logging these incidents properly later on. Look after yourself and know that it’s not you being stupid or going crazy, this is an abnormal situation.

I understand that you love him. I loved my ex too until one day he had chipped away at my love for him so much that it no longer stopped me from leaving him. Of course people are in love with their husband and father of their children. And it can’t be undone overnight. Abusive men aren’t the obviously horrible ogres at first glance people assume they are. It’s common for them to mask their true nature (or perhaps only allow certain facets of themselves to be revealed to you) until it’s “too late” because you’re pregnant etc. And you’d think such behaviour would change your feelings instantly but love doesn’t work like that as anyone who has ever had any sort of ex who broke their hearts will realise.