GP's who are teachers not being remorseful for corporal punishment

[maratara]

I have recently found out that my MIL and FIL who were both primary school teachers ( so up to 12yo max) have both caned children who were badly behaved when they were teaching in the 70's and 80's. It has blown my mind. I burst into tears - I have left all my 4 children with them alone at various times . I had no idea. They think it was just the times, and I am overreacting and I don't understand how things were. This is not that long ago though really! And nobody had a gun to their head to hit a child.

I think they were bullies who used a power imbalance to hit a child with a stick.
Needless to say our relationship has taken a bad turn. I really liked them until now - been with their son for close to 20 years but only found out about this 2 days ago.
What would you do?
My youngest is 11 so it's easy to say he just doesn't want to stay at Grandma's anymore in the holidays for a night. Other children are adults so would never stay the night - just come to family gatherings and things.

What do other people think?

Tears**

You're being ridiculous. Honestly.

… vanishing op …

My mum was a teacher in the 70s. She told me she once "got a child caned" by reporting a child's disrespect to her. So it wasn't her choice (although she knew the possibility of the punishment) and she didn't administer it herself. She still feels guilty, though.

I think you just need to let this go. You haven't felt any reason not to trust them in the past couple of decades and are they always to be flamed for their past choices? People can feel remorseful and wish it hadn't happened and perhaps they just came across as not caring because they have tried to move on? Is that wrong? Should they carry the guilt forever?

If they're otherwise nice people who you've previously trusted I wouldn't let this affect your or your children's relationship with them.

sorry, but YABVU - you say that you got on well with them up until you found this out. You are judging them on something that happened 40-50 years ago and was acceptable at the time, and even expected at the time. It was an accepted form of discipline in those times.

I started secondary in 1983 and caning had stopped by then, but friends older than me can remember the cane, the ruler, and also having blackboard rubbers thrown at them by teachers.

Times have changed, we can't whitewash history, these things happened, but thankfully they do not happen now and that is the important thing.

The only thing for you to worry about is how they treat your DC now, not what they did back then as an accepted part of their job.

This was the times! Provided they don’t do it now, you’re being precious. It wasn’t nice, but this was how it was. In 50 years time things we do now will be considered awful (hopefully excessive use of screens, it’s just as damaging as a smack!)

Agreed

Agree with this too. As is often the case, the pendulum swings too far one way then too far the other

I can't remember how many times I had my knuckles whacked with a wooden ruler for daring to write with my left hand or had my left hand tied to the chair behind my back so that I couldn't write with it. Back then (early 70's) being left handed was still regarded as being wrong (or worse).

Every left handed person that I have spoken to that went to infant school in the 70's suffered the same or similar punishments just for being left handed.

You got a clip round the ear if you were caught doing something wrong by the local beat Bobby, you got the same from the local park keepers for picking flowers, climbing trees for conkers, playing football where you shouldn't etc.

That was life around here in the early 70's. I'm glad that time marches on and things change, life changes.

They did something that was normal and even expected 50 years ago.
you’ve known them 20 years and had a great relationship with them. They no longer do that, and have never done it to your children. I think you’re being ridiculous

People who think that are violent twats.

Oh god- I was worried this thread was going to bring out the "hang 'em and flog 'em" brigade. 😢

Incidentally, I am as sure as I can be that the "clip round the ear from the local bobby" trope exists only in Enid Blyton books and Nigel Farage's fevered imagination.

I was at two primary schools in the 70s. In one of them I was put over a teacher's knee and smacked in front of the class. She was the only teacher who used that kind of punishment and she was notorious for it. No other teacher in either school hit or threatened it.
At high school in the 80s, the occasional board rubber was thrown. But again no other corporal punishment.

I would be tempted to say it was a choice by individual teachers. Parents however, were big smackers and it was the norm. Everyone I knew (bar one child) would get a clip for misbehaving.

At my nursery school the teacher bit a child hard on the hand because he bit several other children. It was early 70s and the general consensus was that, that’d learn him. It did.

I'm with you OP, even in the dark and distant 70s 🙄 people had standards and personal ethics. Many teachers managed to get by without brutalising their students. If your PIL used a cane, then they chose to do it and are responsible for it. The way you describe it, they don't regret it at all, and are somewhat proud of it. That would turn my fucking stomach, it shows their true character, and I certainly wouldn't view them the same way again or want them alone with my children.

Thanks pp
I have already explained I have no idea why I started crying but I did and I was embarrassed about it, so please stop piling on me for that. I left the room composed myself and apologised to my FIL for getting angry as I left, after spending a relatively pleasant evening . I think it was just such a shock that they weren't ashamed or sad or anything about it, and I had always looked up to them and trusted them totally.
Those of you who have grandparents who were teaching in the 70's and 80's maybe should ask them what they did.
No I haven't drip fed. I ignored the biscuit shouting episode and the advice on how to get my kids to sleep " we used to say go to sleep or we will belt you". I thought this was just their way of talking. They are generally nice people .
For those who asked they are in their 70's.
DS is too old for sleepovers now anyway so it's a moot point.
Obviously we won't stop seeing them. I never suggested it.
Regretting starting this thread. but oh well.

You are being ridiculous. I remember boys being caned, never girls. I remember chalk and blackboard dusters being thrown at mainly the boys, chalk at the girls, girls got detentions. It was what it was then. And by god it sorted the nonsense! Is it acceptable now, no, but 1960’ 1970’s were a different time. Get off your critical emotional soapbox. If your PIL are good grandparents be grateful.

Op did you ask if they'd ever been on the receiving end as children?

I think you are in shock that they did it, but really it was different times. And actually it must have been fairly early in their careers for it to have happened.

You have to look at the whole package of teaching, bigger classes, no classroom assistants, poorer understanding of SEN. Kids who'd now be medicated for ADHD or given help with ASD were just expected to survive in class and teacher expected to manage and keep order of all of it.

But don't let it get to you. You've loved and trusted these people for years. How were they as parents and grandparents?

I do think you are overreacting, I agree the biscuit behaviour was very odd.

Others in my family would agree with you though.
My gran was caned in the 1930s by her uncle, the headmaster. Her parents were furious and as her uncle didn't agree he was wrong to hit a child, they never spoke to him and his family ever again! To this day there has never been any attempt to reconnect with that part of the family.

So you started crying because, in your opinion they are not ashamed enough by their actions 40 odd years ago?
Perhaps they spent decades feeling guilty and had to move past it to live their lives, perhaps they never felt any guilt but realised time moves on and it is no longer appropriate to do those things.
Either way your reaction is extremely odd having got to know them over the last 20 years. Hopefully your own children/their partner won't feel the same way about something that you have done.

My dad remembers getting hit by teachers.
He always said it was the vile teachers that disliked kids who did it.

Id lose all respect for them, I wouldn’t be sending my kids over there alone again and I’d be telling them why.
Id also keep all my contact to a minimum.

Massive overreaction!

I agree with the over reaction. I've already said I was embarrassed . It was not something I wanted to do. I think we are going in circles now, Most people disagree with me and some agree, Thanks for all responses.

You are being ridiculous. I remember boys being caned, never girls

Girls in one class in my primary school (early 1960s) had to stand on their seat and then got a (hard) slap on the leg from the teacher while boys were walloped with a gym shoe - think he called it 'a taste of black medicine.' Interestingly none of the other teachers in that school seemed to need corporal punishment; they were women and the walloping teacher was a man who looked like he had a perpetual grievance against the world.

Once I got to secondary it was detentions.