GP's who are teachers not being remorseful for corporal punishment

[maratara]

I have recently found out that my MIL and FIL who were both primary school teachers ( so up to 12yo max) have both caned children who were badly behaved when they were teaching in the 70's and 80's. It has blown my mind. I burst into tears - I have left all my 4 children with them alone at various times . I had no idea. They think it was just the times, and I am overreacting and I don't understand how things were. This is not that long ago though really! And nobody had a gun to their head to hit a child.

I think they were bullies who used a power imbalance to hit a child with a stick.
Needless to say our relationship has taken a bad turn. I really liked them until now - been with their son for close to 20 years but only found out about this 2 days ago.
What would you do?
My youngest is 11 so it's easy to say he just doesn't want to stay at Grandma's anymore in the holidays for a night. Other children are adults so would never stay the night - just come to family gatherings and things.

What do other people think?

they both caned children who were badly behaved when they were teaching in the 70's and 80's. It has blown my mind. I burst into tears…

Um…

My parents were both heavy cigarette smokers when I was a child. Thankfully they both gave it up when I was around 8 or 9. They were the most loving parents and in later years were wonderful grandparents to my children. It wouldn’t have crossed my mind to resurrect the distant past and think I couldn’t have left my children in their care because they smoked cigarettes around their own children 40 years ago. I think you need to leave it in the past OP and with respect I think you are overreacting to this revelation.

PP has reminded me. As well as the cane and slipper being administered by the head, we had teachers who would throw board rubbers at the back wall if anyone's attention started to wander. It was a big , heavy wooden block and ,if it hit you on the way to the back wall, well that was tough. Another teacher fired pieces of chalk at your ear and another had an old chair leg he used to slam into the side of his hollow desk if he felt like it. The noise it made would make you jump out of your skin. I was thumped on the head by my secondary school maths teacher ( he'd made his hand into a fist) because I was quietly copying an example down from the board to help me when we had to do the work later . Nobody in the classroom reacted or said a word about it later. I didn't say a word to my parents. School in the 70s was shit Op. My mum always said " You don't enjoy secondary school, you just survive it".

For the people saying there was no corporal punishment in their schools, that is obvious their reality. The point is that if the Head wanted to use it, he was free to do so. He chose no to.

I think you need to get a grip, if you think every teacher in the 70's and 80's went around beating every kid for the hell of it, it wasn't like that.

My own experience was that it was only a very few boys that were beaten, the naughty boys as it were. 40 plus years later I cant remember what these individuals did to get the slipper, but it would have been for obviously bad behaviour not a tiny step out of line.
Most kids had the sense to stay out of trouble.
There must have been some policy in place as I recall the slipper was only done by one of the most senior teachers at my comp, and the bad boys were sent to him for punishment when necessary. Another punishment was sanding and revarnishing the wooden desks. He would have known these boys quite well and presumably their circumstances. Same ones over and over again. From memory he was actually one of the nicest kindest teachers at the school and widely respected, including by the naughty boys.

I experienced it too. Including at a girls' school.

Some teachers used it, others didn't.

At secondary only the head was allowed to cane, but having board rubbers thrown at you or being kicked in the shins were common with one particular teacher.

I’d be fairly shocked too. Not sure id care to see them again TBH. However, I don’t think it makes them dangerous to your 11 year old. No reason overnights couldn’t continue.

Totally normal at my school, plimsoll for the girls, cane or ruler for the boys. It was accepted and expected. My brother had to hide the caning marks at home or he would have got another lot. No lack of respect for our parents, it was just what happened.

In 50 years time our current young people will look back in horror about how adults encouraged many of them to take dangerous drugs or have unnecessary surgery, all for a passing gender phase.

Metal ruler on knuckles at my school.

what do your children think of your ILs? (assuming you haven’t passed your horror on to them). That’s all that matters now, really.

I think you need to give your head a wobble OP. Not saying corporal punishment was acceptable but it happened. Like many things that used to happen but don't any more. I went to a grammar school in the 70s and misdemeanours were dealt with by 3 strikes on the hand with a cane. It did sting for a while after, but to many pupils it was a badge of honour.

Same here.

I'm 57 now and have totally different views to the ones I held 30 - 40 years ago. I have learned a lot in those intervening years and my opinions have changed totally. I'm just sorry I ever adhered to such outdated bollocks at all but it was all I had ever known and I had a sheltered existence. It is true that times and thinking were still very different back in the seventies and eighties (I was growing up then, and my parents were still teaching), but times do change, and have.

OP, if they have never used corporal punishment on your children then I think you are overreacting and need to calm down. Tell FIL that his refusal to acknowledge that his way was not the best way in the face of all of the evidence to the contrary is disappointing, and there will be no more overnight stays until you are confident in his behaviour towards his grandchildren.

If the incident over the biscuits is true and you witnessed it then tell him that that too has shaken your trust in his ability with his grandchildren.

At the age of 11, your youngest child is potentially starting to outgrow solo visits to grandparents anyway.

YABVU. I lived through the days of corporal punishment in schools and I think you are being very naive. There were clearly set out consequences for certain misdemeanours, and I imagine if a teacher turned around and said ‘stuff that, I’m not following the school rules re punishment because I don’t believe in caning’ they would have been fired on the spot. None of the protections teachers have today existed! You seem to have no idea what life was like back then for most employees and are imagining a lala land that did not exist. Sure, maybe they could have each searched around for schools that did not have these punishments as part of their established code that they were expected to implement, but I guarantee they would not have went with a reference so no hope. Again, no protections.

Give your head a shake and stop being such a drama llama.

It was normal. We all knew kids who got it. At my schools, the deputy or head caned on the school field in view of everyone. Classes were generally orderly. Only the odd class had bad behaviour, and I still remember the footsteps down the corridor that stopped it in its tracks. I was in a large comprehensive.

Obviously, time moves on, attitudes have changed now schools are places of learning, calm, and behaviour reflects this...oh wait..

I wonder how many kids will be up in arms in the future at having to suffer at the hands of other kids, and nothing was done to remove/ punish the perpetrators. While corporal punishment isn't desirable, schools have nothing as an alternative to instil fear boundaries.

I was at primary school in the 80s and remember the head telling everyone in assembly there'd be no more caning and he dramatically snapped it in half. He just gave people a smack on their arse with a plimsoll after that.

There was no physical punishment in my secondary school unless you count having to run round the hockey field if you played up during games.

I distinctly remember a female teacher putting her hand down my skirt. She was constantly telling me off for not having my shirt tucked in and one day just glared as she shoved the front of my shirt into my skirt, touching my knickers in the process. Can you imagine the furore that would cause nowadays? I can't say I'm scarred by it, I thought it was funny.

My own experience was that it was only a very few boys that were beaten, the naughty boys as it were. 40 plus years later I cant remember what these individuals did to get the slipper, but it would have been for obviously bad behaviour not a tiny step out of line.
Most kids had the sense to stay out of trouble.
^
Exactly this!

It didn’t stop the naughty boys but it did stop the vast majority who were watching and thinking about it.

Good god get a grip! Really talk about over reacting. I’m a child of the 60’s and got hit with the ruler by a nasty nun when aged 6 or 7. No big deal really.

Use of tawse (a strap) was banned in Scottish state schools in 1987 and 1998 for private schools, according to a BBC article.
That doesn't mean every school was using it up till then of course. It's not something from a dim and distant past. Most elderly people (and some not so elderly!) today will have been in schools where children were hit and probably hit their own children.

I think you are overreacting. I went to school in the 70s/80s and the belt, slipper and cane were possible punishments, though very rarely used in my experience. This was definitely the norm. Thank god times had moved on by the time I started my career.

My DGF was a headmaster and had to cane his own son twice! This is totally at odds with who I knew as my DGF. Yes he was firm, but he was kind, gentle and very loving. He always had time for us and would drop everything if we needed him. My GM on the other hand… 🫱 🗝️🚪

Not wishing to derail or diminish, but there is an excellent play called The Cane by Mark Ravenshill which has almost this exact scenario. Nicola Walker played the daughter in a recent Royal Court production.

I remember a girl getting hit on the palms with a ruler in my secondary school in the mid eighties. Smacking small childrens legs wasn’t that uncommon a decade ago. All this nonsense about if you can hurt a child knowingly you must be a monster is ludicrous. Most of the people reading will have held their child down for vaccines and minor procedures. I’m sure there are people who smacked children willy-nilly but the vast majority would have felt it was helping them behave.

I know a retired nurse and in the 1970s as a student on his first ward, one of her morning jobs was to wash all the ashtrays and put a clean one on each bedside cabinet!

When I started on wards in the 90s, you had patient and staff smoking rooms. If everyone on the shift changes were smokers, handover happened fairly often in the staff smoking room.

What a ridiculous reaction. Give your head a wobble. They did not cane your kids so no idea why you are 'crying' and making this about you when nothing actually happened ? Yes it happened back then , it was normal back then and not accepted today. Move on. Ridiculous

I trained as a teacher in the mid 70s and corporal punishment was permitted. I never used it in school or on my own children but as pp have said it was of its time. There are many things that were the norm in the past that have now been discredited: putting babies to sleep on their fronts; cot bumpers (these would keep babies safe); attitudes to women, particularly in the workplace.

My parents smacked me - it was what parents did; we were driven around in cars without carseats- or even seat belts and in the front; playground equipments was set in concrete.
Fat killed you and smoking eased stress.
How many of the things that we do now will be discredited in the future? The use of the naughty step has gone out of fashion and gentle parenting is in; will my GDD think less of my DD because she used the naughty step?
Don't get me wrong I welcome all the changes - the Back to Sleep campaign has saved many babies.
But please don't condemn us oldies because we lived in different times as who knows what we are doing to put our children at risk currently.

My brother was taught by the Brothers, they were downright evil

Bursting into teats is ridiculous.

If they have never hurt your kids and wouldn't do it now I think you're hugely over reacting