GP's who are teachers not being remorseful for corporal punishment

[maratara]

I have recently found out that my MIL and FIL who were both primary school teachers ( so up to 12yo max) have both caned children who were badly behaved when they were teaching in the 70's and 80's. It has blown my mind. I burst into tears - I have left all my 4 children with them alone at various times . I had no idea. They think it was just the times, and I am overreacting and I don't understand how things were. This is not that long ago though really! And nobody had a gun to their head to hit a child.

I think they were bullies who used a power imbalance to hit a child with a stick.
Needless to say our relationship has taken a bad turn. I really liked them until now - been with their son for close to 20 years but only found out about this 2 days ago.
What would you do?
My youngest is 11 so it's easy to say he just doesn't want to stay at Grandma's anymore in the holidays for a night. Other children are adults so would never stay the night - just come to family gatherings and things.

What do other people think?

My mother was one of the gentlest people you could hope to meet. I hardly remember her even speaking crossly to me or my siblings. She was a secondary teacher in the 70s and 80s and owned a belt, she may even have used it (I know she did send children to her Head of Department for punishment).
I very occasionally saw pupils receive corporal punishment at both primary and secondary school in the 70s. It wasn't a common occurrence at my schools but it was accepted by both pupils and staff

I am fascinated by the responses to the OP.

She has been called hysterical, dramatic, acting like her children are at risk.

The reality is she is upset that her parents in law caned children - as in lifted a cane and brought it down on the back or backside of a child under 12.

But you are all fine with that because - times were different.

Really? I don't think so.

My parents were born in 1926 and 1927 and would have sooner brought a cane down on their own back then do it to a child.

My grandparents were the same.

So you have two people who caned children (think about that - caning a child) and are not remorseful about it at all.

I would certainly think less of them and judge them for that. But you are all just dandy about it because "different times". But in those different times there were plenty of people who wouldn't have dreamed of caning a child.

Quite a disgusting thread to be honest.

OP, I can understand your reaction. Your in laws aren't a physical danger to your children so I wouldn't worry about that. I certainly wouldn't want them to pass on any values to them though. They don't have any worth having.

And imagine if someone posted on here tomorrow that she saw a child being caned by an adult and was very upset.

Would there really be people saying "hysteria" "dramatic" "calm down"

I doubt it.

So people will say different times. But in those different times there were plenty of people like my parents, my grandparents (both sides) and loads of teachers my parents remembered fondly who didn't do this cruel shit.

Sure, times change, but you look back and are sorry it took so long to develop surely. The lack of remorse is strange, shows they don’t understand the real consequence of assaulting children as they did, so I think your reaction is quite normal.

my parents are of that generation and strong opponents of any violence toward children. So clearly even the time excuse is nonsense.

Thanks for the reactions.
I had a total visceral reaction because to me planning to hit a child with a stick ( which is all it is) is not something I can deal with. It's not like slapping in anger or fear ( child about to run across the road or something). This is organised and planned and an adult getting a rod and whacking a child. My MIL said she only did it twice - both to girls and seemed she'd done well. My FIL is pleased with himself - dragged out a story about one of the kids he hit bumping into him at an event and thanking him . Calling BS on that.
Yes I understand they were different times , but it wasn't the 1800's. It was the 1980's , There was no gun pointed at their head to hit children. They didn't sign a contract to hit 5 children a term. It was a choice.
Anyway, I have lost an awful lost of respect for them.

I can understand how it makes you feel but they had no choice as it was the done thing in those days. Have they ever ill-treated their grandchildren? I hope you can bring it in yourself to forgive them. How does your husband feel about it?

You burst into tears? What an enormous ridiculous overreaction.

See. That's what I don't understand . I went to school from the late 1970's and through the 80's and no teacher hit anyone. Ever. So it was a choice they made. I think that is what upsets me the most. Also the, oh well look how well they turned out crap example as a justification; and the complete lack of remorse. They just aren't the people I thought they were.
I will move on but I will never look at them the same.
I don't really understand how it's different than finding out your grandpa beat the heck out of your father. Would you think well of him? It's the same thing.

I agree. Adults belting children is just a thing that sets me off. Some people cry at tigers in cages. Obviously not something that upsets you - even if you found about it years after leaving your children in these peoples care. I understand people will all react differently. Maybe I was ridiculous. I didn't mean to cry. It was embarrassing.

I was in primary school in the late 50s and early sixties and was caned frequently. Most of the time it didn't really hurt and I personally much preferred it to having to write lines or getting after-school detention.

My DH (53) has talked about teachers doing this

It was just how things were done

You've blown it out of proportion. It's certainly not the same as your in laws beating your H

I think we are similar in age, it may not have been the done thing in your school but it certainly was in mine. You keep saying they had a choice but they wouldn’t. They would have followed the school’s rules as teachers.

Unheard of at my mixed private primary school in the 70's in England but did happen to some of my (boy) friends at state school. I think they had to have done something pretty naughty though. However, at secondary school in a different part of England (late 70's & 80's) it was fairly unusual at both state and private. The whole time I was there two boys got caned once (at the same time) for a serious case of vandalism. We girls were threatened with the slipper but it never happened ever in my time.

I can understand OP losing respect for PILs but I think it would be a bit harsh to stop DC spending time with them for no other reason.

As I say . I don't accept that as a justification. It's all very " was just doing what I was told to do by my commanding officer". They didn't even have that as they didn't have to hit children. They chose to.
Obviously I am in the minority. I sort of thought I would be. I guess I was just shocked. My FIl proudly announced he'd caned a boy for knocking over a table.
I look at them differently know - they are not the benign souls I thought they were, Lots of teachers in the 70's and 80's managed not to hit children. It was a choice they made. Maybe they were just crap at controlling the classroom. Whatever, I ( unlike most people on here who think its all g because it was the done thing) as I said do not trust them anymore to make appropriate decisions with regards to children.

No I won't stop them seeing them. Of course not. But no more overnights. I've been dubious about those since a few weeks after the last one when FIL screamed at DS to "put down those biscuits, Do not touch them or else!. DOn't you dare have one." DS had asked 5 minutes earlier ( I heard) and was waiting on MIL to make him a cup of tea to have with them,sohad no idea why he was being yelled at.
I explained that to FIL but it went in one ear and out the other as he glared at the packet of biscuits. I thought that was strange and that together with , and mainly, some health issues they have I haven't sent DS for a sleepover since. Won't ever again.
Thanks again for all replies. I understand now I overreacted, and will leave things as they are ( minus the sleepovers).

They quite possibly thought they were doing the right thing for the child (spare the rod, spoil the child). I went to school in the 70s with corporal punishment, glad it's stopped now but didn't find it traumatic. My abusive mum on the other hand.

One day your grandchildren will be horrified by the things you did - supporting sweatshop child labour, eating meat, taking flights, etc, etc.

Quite possible, but not really so personal is it? Getting the child to your office. Getting your cane/rod whatever ready and then calmly hitting them. The things you quote are at least one step remove. Totally agree that people will look back and think "WTF were they doing using fossil fuels?" It's not quite the same as "WTF was Grandpa doing hitting dad?"

You're hugely over reacting. I was in primary in the early 80s and was smacked by a teacher several times, and I was a good kid in comparison to many others. The cane was hung in the head masters office, and whilst I never remember it being used the threat was definitely there. If your PILs are decent people I'm sure it wasn't gratuitous violence, it's just how things were done.

Yeah, you're overreacting. I was at school 70s and 80s and although the cane itself wasn't used the teacher used a table tennis bat and all the children (mainly boys) who were late back to class after break got tapped (and I do mean tapped, it wasn't hard) on the backside.

My ex's school used the cane, it was a private school. It was hearing it being used on student's hands and fingers that horrified me. Through trousers and often a jumper in your backside wasn't such a big deal.

But then there were always some sadists that enjoyed inflicting pain which is probably the initial reason why it was phased out.

If you have got to 18+ years with no concerns about them at all around your children then that would outweigh my feelings about their past actions. They have proved they are responsible - it doesn't sound as though they have ever smacked any of your children or been abusive. I'm not diminishing your feelings OP - I completely agree with you about the use of corporal punishment. However, from their perspective they know what they did was legal and may feel that it was part of their job and possibly even necessary.

I'm 58. I went to school when corporal punishment was legal.

Im guessing you are a good deal younger than me. You have no idea how different school culture was when your ILs were teaching.

That's quite a dripfeed.

Indeed it is. Chinny reckon.

It's not like slapping in anger or fear ( child about to run across the road or something).

No child should be hit ever. And certainly not in these circumstances. A child who is about to run in the road is not being supervised properly by it's parent (reins, wrist strap or firm hand hold) You can't cry about corporal punishment and then say this is ok. Hitting out of anger or fear is still hitting and is serving the parent not the child. Hitting is hitting whatever the reason.

However, corporal punishment was accepted back then and plenty of teachers did it. We used to get a ruler across our hands in primary school, a blackboard rubber thrown at us more often in secondary. DH went to schools that used the cane as punishment along with various other forms of punishment.

We can't rewrite history, but we should be extremely pleased that the world has moved on since then and that hitting children (even for running into the road) is totally unacceptable and, in lots of places, illegal.

I missed the GD screaming post. Was this out of the blue? It seems odd that OP has adult children and doesn't appear to have had any problems and then that happened. That would make me stop unsupervised visits more than the fact they used the cane in the past.

Has FIL behaviour changed recently OP?