Using a condom

[karlaka]

After the second date, I had sex with the guy I met through university.
We started making out and it was obvious we would end up having sex. He was about to put his dick in, then I asked him to use a condom. He immediately put on one. We had sex and fell asleep. During the night, we both woke up and started making out. We had sex again, this time without a condom. I didn't say anything, and he didn't initiate using one either.
When I later brought up the topic and asked if he does this often, he said that he used to find condoms arousing and that he wouldn't do it otherwise. He mentioned that he trusted me right away because I had emphasized the use of a condom the first time, and he felt secure with that.
What would you think? Would you believe him? Would you continue seeing this guy? Or do you think he did nothing wrong and I was just as much a part of this?

Didn't feel able to v didn't think at the time because carried away are two different things.

Complete assumptions on your part.

It doesn’t sound as if she was ‘fine’ with it. She went along with it. But we don’t know that she was ‘fine’ with it.

Honestly don’t understand what sort of men some of you are encountering where you think it’s OK that you have to tell them each time you’re having sex that they should put a condom on. Like they’re 6, or something.

Well, when you asked him to wear a condom first time it reassured him that you're the 'type' to insist on this, and so you're much less likely to pass on an STI to him. He felt he'd be safe to do without the second time.
On the other hand, when he was happy to do without first time, you should have been alerted to the fact that he's 'the type' to not use condoms even with people he's just met, so you should have seen him as a high risk of STI.
It was selfish of him not to use one as most of the risk is to you. Not an attractive quality in someone you're looking to date.

I really couldn't make sense of what he said until this post made it clear....really OP just get rid. Plenty of fish etc

IME of a year of OLD and a fair bit of casual sex, no man will voluntarily discuss contraception unless you being it up.

I'm in my early 50s, so the chances of pregnancy are low, but I still have periods, so they're not non-existent. I don't use any LARC, so realistically condoms are the only option.

If I'm prepared to fuck them with no condom, I'm probably prepared to fuck others with no condom - and they do often ask how OLD has been going, so they know they're not that dpecial or exclusive. Plus men my age, like me, would have been going through puberty at the height of the AIDS epidemic, when condoms were everywhere and we were all going to die from unprotected sex. Not one of them mentions using condoms or having had STI tests before I bring it up. Also men, if you're shagging around, one STI test a year with your work's private health provision isn't enough.

Most of them will use a condom if I insist, though some of them will whinge mightily about how sex with condoms just isn't as good, and do they really have to... no, they don't have to, but I don't have to have sex with them. If using a condom means they can't sustain an erection, they won't be getting a return invitation anyway (see also: Viagra.)

If you give them any leeway, they will not use a condom. There is a distinct lack of logic, too. If you insisted on condoms first time, why would they suddenly not be required the second time, when you've had no time to get the pill or an STI check? For me, if I ask for condoms to be used, I expect it for that whole of that session - every time there's penetration, there should be a condom, not just the first time. I usually have a good stash of condoms available because I would expect them to "forget" or just hope for it without.

Men are really shit about using condoms, especially the ones who are more likely to sleep around. Yes, I also prefer sex without condoms, but I also prefer sex without STIs.

You need to overtly mention condoms (and probably provide them) every single time - if there's any chance a man can have sex without one, he will.

I think you’re very naive not to think some
guys will take any opportunity given to them to not wear a condom if they can - even if you’ve said he should wear one. If he’s using excuses to not wearing one, or forgetting, it’s because he likes not wearing one.

You had consensual sex without a condom so I don't understand your post.

Because she told him she wanted to have sex with a condom. Why would that change in four hours? What situation had changed?

You’re responsible for your sexual health.

I don’t believe his nonsense of ‘trusting you’. That’s the red flag for me. If he hasn’t said that before I’ll give you £200.

The obtuse and the disingenuous are out in force….

This is so bloody daft. You can’t hold it against him for not using a condom when you didn’t either, you’re as irresponsible as he is

Seconded.

However this is mumsnet so it's the mans fault.

@ConnieTucker wgar changed is the fact 4 hours later op consented to sex without one by not asking, not stopping, not say no condom no sex, and agreeing to it

ergo op equally responsible

I'm confused. You both had consensual unprotected sex, but it's all his fault? Just talk to him. Tell him you said want to use condoms every time from now on. No drama.

I get what you mean..you think he'd be responsible enough to use one without being told every time.

He's sounds pretty careless about sexual health.

Who knows what he's picked up.

@RantyAnty
Yes you’d think op would be responsible enough to insist on one every time wouldn’t you ?

Any sensible woman will tell a man especially one who is practically unknown to them to use a condom each time. It's not difficult and why would a sensible woman just lie back and think I've said it once so he knows? He doesn't know any such thing - you could have wanted one the first time for any number of reasons, you might have changed your mind and thought fuck it....since when do you let a stranger control your life?

You asked the first time and he put it on. The second time you both got caught in the heat of the moment and you both forgot. This is both of your responsibilities although it does sound like it was consensual.

He’s more or less said that when he’s in relationships then he doesn’t wear condoms. This is something a lot of couples do but it’s after they have both agreed to it.

This is maybe a lesson for you for next time, if you carry on seeing him, then tell him upfront that everytime you have sex you want him to wear condoms. Go buy some yourself and keep them in your bedside cabinet so they are handy to get incase you get caught up again.

My experience is you both discuss contraception prior to having sex. With my partner of 10 years there was a few occasions we got carried away and didn't use anything (once being very early in the relationship). I didn't blame him for that because neither of us 'are 6' and both capable of checking we're being responsible.

Clearly I'm in the minority but I wouldn't see him again and I wouldn't be happy with this. For me, the fact that he didn't put a condom on, when he knew that's what you wanted (because the first time you had insisted) suggests that he doesn't respect you and that your safety isn't as important to him as his own pleasure. Not great.

I do think PPs are missing the wider context here. I have had to insist with every man I slept with to use a condom. I have been coerced into sex more times than I care to remember. Men have stealthed me. Personally I find it bloody tiresome, awkward and rather a turn off to have to ask a man every single time (even on the same night!) To wear a condom. I won't go into wider concerns like your general safety when you're alone with someone you barely know who is much stronger than you, physically, impacting your behaviour.

Yes, she needs to take responsibility for her own health but putting this at OP's door I think ignores the wider context. personally i would call it a day. You may have both consented, but he still doesn't sound like someone I would want to invest any more time with.

Thanks for articulating exactly what I’ve been unable to do @Sleepytimebear.

All op needs to do is say, look, until we decide to get serious I want to use condoms. That means every time. He didn’t coerce her or stealth her. It’s no more on him than her. How would op feel if her next partner basically said , nah, I’m judging you for having unprotected sex? Everyone on here would be saying the guy was out of order

seriously men can’t win in this site

He said he always used to wear condoms before

You only have his word for that, his behaviour in not using one with you suggests otherwise.

He knew after the first time that you wanted to use condoms but he deliberately started the second time without using one. That's rape or at least, as the PP said, rapey. He knew the wishes you had stated earlier, but ignored them. You're not safe around him @karlaka x

I've been 'stealthed' so I know what it's like. It's very unnerving. So sorry you went through this. xx

Why didn't you speak up the second time though?

To all the PP's saying this- It's the freeze response, it's very common when someone is raped.

Ffs it’s not rape!! Or even rapey

ridiculous to suggest so. Op is 50-% at fault here

Ffs it’s not rape!! Or even rapey

He started sex without a condom knowing OP wanted him to use one, based on what she'd said earlier and asked him to use one then.

This counts as rape in law (if her consent was conditional on him wearing one) or if she eventually consented to it before he penetrated her, at least trying to override/ignore what OP wanted- 'rapey.'

No it was not rapey at all. She knew he wasn't wearing one and herself got caught up and didn't want to stop to say put it on. As she said herself. Both equally responsible. I'd be more concerned about pregnancy than stds right now!