"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

[oneplusone]

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

[Flight]

Ally what a cool post

Yes, it is really helpful - I like to read about others' experiences as I can take from them the relevant or familiar bits. So don't feel it is unhelpful - it most definitely is!

I will have to think about Dad. He was the one I idolised I suppose, always feeling he liked me, while mum never did. I was her 'bad side' if you like - she saw in me the child she was, and felt her mother hated.
Hmm.

It would be hard to look badly at Dad because sometimes I feel so alone and he is the only one left that I thought I could trust - though I know he would always side with her

He used to do the same - when I had a brief few years away from them in my late teens, I didn't want to see them at all and he still brought stuff round from my mum. It was hard to deal with.

Talking of that time, I had a boyfriend then, and we lived together but I was awful. I think I took out all my problems on him. I am terrified of doing that to someone else, which is why I avoid relationships perhaps.

He bore the brunt of my not seeing the parents - I was a right mess.

Is there a way to go without taking our problems with us? Or do we have to give the probl;ems solidly back to our parents before we are able successfully to move on, without hurting partners./our children?

I'm a bit worried that if I leave her I will transfer it all to them,

actully I already am doing that, getting cross with the elder one, when I am really angry with her and the stealing of my right to enjoy being a good parent.

[ally90]

Thanks

I felt my dad was always on 'my side' versus my mother and sister. And it took me a long time, in fact until I broke contact with him to see him for what he is. I understand the loneliness of it all, we all do. And that is what keeps us in contact with them. The pain of giving up hope of them ever accepting us as we are.

I think we all take it out on our dp/dc/friends at times. I do it in a subtle way, I disconnect from my dd, ie eye contact, don't respond readily, look irritated while smiling at her thinking 'just go away! I'm busy thinking!' and she knows. And sometimes cries...then I feel bad and realise what is happening (happens quicker now a days) and apologise to her (she's only nearly 2...but I hope she gets the jist of it) and take a deep breath and think i will deal with my thinking later, now is dd time. Its a behaviour led thing, gradually you learn to recognise your behaviour pattern happening as you are doing it, then gradually as you want to behave that way and you can eventually, hopefully stop yourself. You need to become very self aware of how you are feeling. Its a hard thing to do given we have not been allowed major feelings let alone minor feelings ever...but its an important step to check out how you feel on a hour by hour/minute by minute [optimistic emotion] basis. You also need to allow yourself to have those feelings. I feel bad if I feel irritated at dd, but I need to realise that if I'm woken 3 times in one night (like last night) I will feel a bit peeved...even 'normal' brought up adults would...but I'm so worried about being like my mother I swing to 'I must be a bad mother to feel irritation at my dd'. But no, its human to feel like that. ANd when I allow myself to be irritated and acknowledge it...it fades away.

Waffle over Oh and give yourself a break...if you beat yourself up for losing your rag, your more likely to do it again...we can't be perfect humans all the time...acknowledge any hurt caused to dc, look into your feelings to see what triggered the behaviour, make a mental note, acknowledge what you did was not okay, but remember the next moment in time is a new fresh start, and we can change if we choose to

[JingleyJen]

Hi folks,
I have to say that my main worry about my disfunctional family is the effect it is having on my relationship with all my boys (dh included)
I really can't understand why Dh wants to be with me, sometimes I am purposefully horrid to him so that he has reason to leave me.

And the boys, well I seem to keep my temper for so long then I just flip.. It scares me that I could turn into my father. He used to beat my sister until she couldn't walk because she was so sore. I can't let myself smack the boys because having done it once I found it would be really easy to do it again and again and that makes me just like him

I desperatley want to break the cycle, my Mum always said if she turned into my spiteful twisted grandmother we should shoot her.. and she has.. that really leaves me believing that I will be as horrid to my boys and I can't bear that thought.

I have so many things in my life that just reiterate and confirm that I am no worth the air I breathe that I am always planning for my boys life without me, I have letters that I have written for them for certain birthdays because I just know I won't be around for them. It makes me so sad to know that it will be better for them.

Got to go now.. getting myself into a fizz when I should be making dinner for tonight... not constructive.

[mampam]

Hello am going to have to have a rant now just to make myself feel better!

My mother and I jobshare!! We both work at the same place 2 and a half days per week each. Wednesdays is the swap over day when I go home at lunchtime and she starts. This has been the reason why I could not totally have a complete break from her but has been one of the deciding factors in why I have decided I do need a break from her. The main reason for this being that when she comes in to work she either ignores me or if she does speak to me (conversation usually initiated by me) she speaks in a really nasty tone of voice(unless of course we are in earshot of somebody else and then she's as nice as pie!). I realised that at 28 years old I do not have to put up with being spoken to this way from anybody least of all my own mother.

Anyway,I am leaving my job and my last day is tomorrow. I am leaving partly because of her but mainly because I am now going to only work in the evenings so I will have more time with dc's most importantly I won't have to pay for childcare. I have just found out that my mother has been saying to various people behind my back that I'm making a terrible mistake leaving my job for the evening one. Well not only will my new job benefit me with childcare costs but I will be earning more money too.

I just see this as yet another attempt by my mother to poo poo anything and everything that I do. It's ok for my older brother to get engaged to a girl he's only known for 8 weeks, thats the most fantastic news she's had in ages, despite him leaving his 8 month old daughter and supposed girlfriend in the process, thats obviously fine. But heaven forbid I should want to better myself and do whats best for my dc's!!

It really pisses me off. The inlaws are also being a real pain at the moment too. I sometimes wonder what I've done in life to deserve this.

Ok rant over!! Thanks for reading if you made it this far!!

Jingleyjen we all feel like we our dc's would be better off without us at times. The truth is our dc's love us so much and they wouldn't want to be without us. I know sometimes I feel like I let my dc's down. If only they were born with a perfect parenting manual attached to them and a guide on how not to f**k them up in the head.

[Flight]

Jen I feel so sad reading what you just wrote

I've felt that way too at times

I never believe that the other times are real, I think you know what I mean.
Like, that stuff is the truth, and everything else is just the surface stuff that doesn't change the fact I'm a shit mother.

I am just starting to think about how my mother could have made me feel this way, rather than it being real.

Just at the very beginning of climbing out of the hole...maybe...remember dear that we are all in this boat, every mother on the planet has something about herself that she hates, feelings like she is the worst person in the world.

The false division between those of us who are depressed and the 'rest of the normal people' can make us forget that we're all the same really.

Been thinking about you since I read this hours ago but couldn't think what to write.

Hope you have a peaceful night anyhoo xx

[3NAB]

I haven't posted on here for a while as I got a bit lost and then felt like I was intruding.

Tomorrow is my son's 7th birthday.

Last year my MIL turned up with a letter from my mother which she gave to my DH and I found him reading it. Really spoilt the day for me. So worried the same thing is going to happen.

[ally90]

Jingley Jen they are NOT better off without you. You see you have a gift your mother does not have, insight you can see your behaviour for what it is, and you can understand the impact it has on others. You cannot give in to your mothers abuse of you in this way. You can do this, you can change. I've said it once today and I will say it again.

Can't or Won't?

Can't change. Balderdash. Yes you can! You can look back and see what started your low self esteem and non existant self confidence. You are not a bad person. The fact your mother/family abused you is NOT your fault. Repeat that out loud 'ITS NOT MY FAULT'. You were just a small child like your children when you were abused. But unlike your mother, if you have caused hurt to your sons or dh even you have REMORSE and actually FEEL bad about it. The fact you FEEL makes you a different person to your mother. An apology and an acknowledgement from our mothers would mean so much to all of us. And you are capable of that! That is what a good enough mother can do for their children. We are not perfect, we do say and do the wrong thing/hurtful things but we can acknowledge that...and therein lays an important lesson for our children, how to make a mistake/hurt someone and how to put it right...and its a really powerful thing when someone acknowledges your pain/hurt, it makes it all much better to know someone understands us.

What books have you read? Have you been in therapy? Sorry if you have said...

Oh and the other part...Won't change. What do you fear if you change? You will start having to feel the pain of remembering your childhood again? Revisit it? Have feelings about your mother again? What do you fear about feeling good about yourself? And as for testing your dh, he is your support and strength right now. Can you confide some of this to him? So he understands where you are coming from?

I know all this is so difficult, but you are not alone anymore. You have us on this thread to be here, and you have your dh and your dc. We on this thread believe you and will listen to you...why not let this thread become the voice you listen to rather than your mothers destroying your confidence and happiness. After all...there are more of us on this thread (and lurkers) than your mum! And in this case we are bigger and better than her!

This is not the end of the road for you, this is the beginning. It won't be easy and you will need lots of determination and will power to get past your past, and it may take a lifetime...but at least you are trying. That's more than most mothers have done.

Your turn with the hot fluffy towels xxx

[ally90]

3nab, just post! Not intruding...we're all at different stages...you could be waiting all year for an appropriate time to post. We do understand if you need to just blurt it all out...I feel I should have replied a bit more today...but just don't feel up to it. Hope your ds bday goes well. And ask your dh to respect the fact you don't want your mother communicating, even by a letter. She's your mother and you know her better than him.

Mampam, good luck with your new job if you think its good for you, then I'm sure you know best your mother sounds a joy to be around

[Sakura]

ally, sorry to hear that your mother has been at you again, and is managing to use effective tactics to get at you.
They know our buttons, dont they! They know our weaknesses. <span class="italic">Please</span> dont respond however hard it may be- this is what she wants. She is prodding you for a reaction, because if you react she knows youre still that little child. If you <span class="italic">dont react, you are the more powerful of the two of you.
Oooh, when I got the letter from my mother saying that I was born with special needs, and that is why she was justified in hitting me in order to control me ( I don`t have special needs, by the way- none at all!, but even if I had....)
Well I really wanted to reply to that letter, but by not replying I was excercising my power as an adult.
Your post about the way you are with DD was really insightful. It gave me a lot to think about, especially as our daughters are about the same age.

[ally90]

Thanks Sakura I won't respond, I'm thinking to my therapist and what he said last week...ie if something should happen and I have not said all that I was feeling. But what good would it do? Even if she did change a bit, I would not be able to trust her again. I would not want to visit my parents in their madhouse, or even outside it...therapist reckoned people act basically more to society norms if they are surrounded by unknown people...not my parents...my father cheerfully bellows to all and sundry about his food allergy and it has 'unfortunate effects' followed by booming laugh... my mother hissing things at under her breath then being all maternal as one should when in public (shame about how she is in private...would not want that on display) I am now, since yesterday seeing them in a fresh light, something my dh has been telling me...they really are slightly mad...batty...eccentric...reclusive...any other words I can think of...just have no idea of how people in society really behave...its like we had our own rules in our family...something I always felt uncomfortable with as it did not fit in with what I knew of outside of the family. And thinking back I saw how my friends reacted to it all. Still feeling okay today...and slept too

Really shocking that your mother would say you had sn...just to justify her abuse of you. I would be just about boiling over if that had been my mother!! Who was it who used a rolled up towel to pretend to throttle their mother? Have you heard back from any family since you got back?

[BlaDeBla]

I'm trying to keep up with what people are writing about. There's a lot going on in this thread!

Jen, your post struck a chord. I agree with what mampam said about feeling inadequate and those feelings that our dcs would be better off without us.

I've been thinking a lot about how we are or aren't like our parents. My father loses his temper at every available opportunity and wouldn't know what a boundary was if it bit him or if he got tangled up in barbed wire. He has no respect for his family and is fantastically rude. He is also a great coward and realistically something to be pitied.

What a thing to turn out like! I have noticed recently that I may share his temper. I can feel myself getting angry, but these days I am better able to look at the situation and often I think that I am getting angry for my own ends, and that for my own and everyone elses sake it is probably best not to share it!

I still feel very shaky and unstable (about day 3 of feeling like this). It feels as though nobody has believed me and that I am making it all up.

[kaz33]

Jen, your post made me very sad, that horrendous rage that builds inside you for no real reason and explodes without any warning. I feel it as a physical thing, a knot in my stomach, a taste in my mouth and I have to fight it so hard.

I am off on my course on Thursday and have slowly been physically and mentally unravelling as the date draws near. I fell over in the school playground flat on my face and hurt my hand on monday. It is now nearly better but I have been wondering around with ice packs on my hand (luckily my left). Last year I started to get a bad leg, unable to walk in a straight line for long distances (which manifested itself when I was around my parents). Today I was going to go into town after dropping the kids off at school but realised that my leg was going big time. I hobbled home (a five minute walk to and from) . I pick the kids up from school and have to work so hard for the two or three hours before DH comes home to hold it together. I just so need to get there and let it all out.

[toomanystuffedbears]

hi
dd2 is napping, briefly probably.
I have come across a new (2006)parenting book that is making loads of sense:

The Science of Parenting
by Margot Sunderland
"How today's brain research can help you raise happy, emotionally balanced children."

I got off the discount table at the local bookstore for $4.99 (published price $25).

JJen-don't feel worthless-you simply are not allowed to feel that way- got it?
I know what you mean, though, truly. Mine WAS like: who would miss me? Who would come to the funeral? Zero, goose egg, No one would miss me...which was a lie of course: dh, ds, dd1 and now dd2. Does anyone else really matter? Dear Oldest Sister matters, lovely Middle Sister does not.

My feelings of worthlessness came from and was continued by (at least partially) the Middle Sister keeping me diminished. Some is from society pressure to 'do everything-have everything', and some is from unrealistic expectations we have of ourselves. Then add the freight train of emotional baggage from our dysfunctional childhoods, continuing today as survivors still immersed in the brainwashing soup of our birth family (or in laws). No wonder we feel crap, right?

This thread offers a wealth of guidance to get out of the family brainwashing soup-that is something we all, as adults, do have control over-even as difficult as it can be to accomplish. It is so true that we do not want to continue the cycles of treatment that our ineffective parents laid on us-and this recognizes that the dear children are innocent. It is hard to be in "parent" mode 24/7...but that is what we need to be prepared to do for the youngsters; and we need to be able to switch into parent mode spontaneously as needed. It is hard, but that is our job, and I know how thankless it can be too.

-----

MS called yesterday. Caller ID , I didn't pick up (I was literally about to step out of the door with the baby to take dd1 to an activity) so wasn't going to pick up at that time anyway.
And I could sense the terse tone in her voice- message-she wants to get in touch with me, please call her back, she would appreciate it, thanks, bye. Still no questions about the baby, when can she see her, what color is her hair/eyes? ... because the baby is not about her.
She probably wants to know about this weekend which was the first she was to come and "help" me...so she has blocked my emails (in which I canceled all plans for her to visit), or refused to read them...communication has to be on her terms.
DH listened-no apologetic sense (not even imagined) to her message or tone...he says do not call her back.
I will not call her back.

I'll stand firm in solidarity silence with you Ally. Just writing that make me feel so much more empowered... thanks!

Got to get ds and dd1 out of school to orthodontist this morning with baby in tow...should be an interesting morning.
Better get to it..

[oneplusone]

Hi, i can totally relate to the feelings of worthlessness and thinking that my DC's would be better off without me. I have even contemplated leaving as I honestly have sometimes thought they and DH would be better off without me and all my 'baggage'. I feel i am dragging them all down and the DC's are missing out on things because i am so wrapped up and consumed by my thoughts and emotions about my family/childhood.

Some days are better than others but i haven't had a really 'up' day for a while. I seem to be slightly depressed pretty much all the time. In fact I think I have had low level depression since I had DD, nearly 5 years ago, with the occasional day or two here and there of feeling a little bit 'alive'. Otherwise I feel like i am in a 'fog' most of the time.

[JingleyJen]

Well as if I don't cry enough already you lot have had me at it
I am finding it really hard to cope with this, it feels like the pieces of disfunctional jigsaw have started slotting into place..
Reasons for things that I have done in the past, decisions I have made all tied into the abnormal relationship I have with my family.

you all sound like you are so strong..
I tried going to counselling a few years ago but the woman was horrid and I felt like she made me talk about things that were upsetting then she tutted and was visibly irritated that we were wasting time on me getting upset.

I am frightened of opening a can of worms.. Our family unit is built on denial, denial that my dad was a very violent man to my sister It still brings a lump to my throat remembering him kicking the shit out of her in the street when we were on holiday in Italy and her cuddling up to me as she fell asleep in my arms us both shaking with fear.
Denial that my mum is mentally unstable - she had a breakdown in 1989 and really has just got worse. Denial about how bitter I am that at the most crucial times in my life I knew I didn't have anyone I could rely on. When I was raped aged 12 I told no-one... when I fell pregnant from my first consenting sexual relationship aged 19 I had a termination because I knew I would have no support.

Sorry this has turned into a woe is me..
I think it was Ally who said in her post that you believe me.. it is amazing how powerful that statement is.. I feel like I have needed to hear that for so long. Thank you.

[toomanystuffedbears]

JJen- I'm sorry for you the way your father treated you.
This journey of self-reflection is difficult and seems like pit of unlimited depth, but it is a path to healing and clarity and validation. Have courage to do it, whether now or next year or in five years (we're talking incredible half-life shelf life)...not dealing with it is probably not going to be a way to be free of it. Pace yourself and go a little at a time. For me, the shocker was that I was indeed not loved and raised without feeling-
I found out my Oldest Sister was adopted: my reaction: oh, so what's for dinner?

-----

I had it out with Middle Sister today on the phone. Yes, dd2 was asleep on my lap, but I answered the phone anyway. Sorry, I caved in on our solidarity, Ally
so soon, too. But the weekend plans were coming up and I didn't want her to just show up.
She said she had not gotten my email.
I'll spare you the details, but I am free of her now. I shouted and was angry, but amazingly enough, I didn't experience 'emotional flooding' that I would have under the circumstances of such a confrontation.
She was in denial and said I was the one who she had to walk on eggshells to get along with. Her versions of how things transpire are from a different universe-so good to have that background homework done to understand what is going on-the futility of the truth with her. I did tell her that I was not going to let her deny me my perspective any more-and I was not going emotionally dormant for her (no, she was the one to go dormant ) and that my 'family duty' to her was done.
It was left that a long break is needed, email would be the only communication. She wants contact with my dd1 & ds and I said no expensive gifts-so she was going to go into how I poisoned them against her, but I set her straight on how they can figure out that someone is irritating all by themselves.

I am amazingly calm, dh noted as well. This has been a long time coming and I can remember feeling this way about her since I was 7 or so.
Got to go dd2=diaper blow out.
Thanks for your help and support which helped me so much for today to happen for me. It is a relief.

[Danae]

Message withdrawn

[oneplusone]

Danea, thank you for your post, your comments/advice are always just what i need to hear. I remember you said once that anger was usually the upper layer of emotion and underneath it often lies pain/hurt/anguish and that has held so true to me. I think sometimes i hold onto the anger because i don't want to face up to/feel the pain that lies underneath.

I think right now a lot of my emotions are centred around my sisters. I haven't allowed myyself to feel angry at them because I have felt that the way they treated me when we were children and also now that we're all adults wasn't their fault as they were 'trained' to behave that way by our parents. But, whatever the reason behind their behaviour didn't/doesn't change the way they made/make me feel and this is something i think i have only realised today. I think i am finally allowing myself to feel some of my anger at them, and know my anger is justified because they were quite cruel to me when we were children and they are being cruel to me now, ever since i cut off my parents. The younger one in particular has taken it upon herself to be angry with me and seems to not give a hoot about the way my dad abused me. She only cares about a few unpleasant things i said to her in a letter i wrote when i was very angry at the whole of my family. She has cut me off and makes me feel like i'm the 'black sheep' when she has no right to.

I really want to have a proper talk with her about our family but she hasn't been in touch with me for a few months. She is also pregnant with her first child so i am reluctant to really push the issue of talking with her but it leaves me in a state of limbo. I think i am ready to emotionally and physically seperate from both my sisters if i have to, but i don't feel i can do that on my own as it were. ie i would like to have a talk with each of them if only to find out exactly what they are thinking/feeling about me. The fact that my youngest sister is not replying to my texts/emails makes me really angry as i feel she has no right to cut me off without giving me the opportunity to respond to comments she has made to me which i found extremely unfair.

My middle sister was in touch with me until very recently but has suddenly stopped replying to my emails and I don't really know what to do. When we saw each other last we agreed that we needed to meet up and talk about the family stuff but didn't arrange anything at that time.

Most of all i hate this feeling of being in limbo. If they just told me they didn't want a relationship with me any more I feel i could handle that; it's the not knowing that i hate.

I don't know if that is what my recent 'fog' has been about, my mind sorting out my feelings about my sisters. Possibly as even whilst writing this post i am starting to feel better and feel i am gaining some clarity.

I feel quite isolated at the moment. As a result of this journey i feel like i have done a bit of a life laundry and am now left with only 1 close friend who i want to remain in contact with. I have stopped contact with another close friend who i realised treated me as a punchbag whenever she was feeling down. I do have some newer friends but i don't really talk to them about all this stuff so i am kind of on my own at the moment. Well apart from my MN friends!

Again, sorry for rambling, i don't expect anyone to read all this, i just find i am able to work things out whilst writing so just getting things out is a great help.

[toomanystuffedbears]

Danae and JJen-thanks for your posts.
I too, did/do over share. Thanks for putting a name/purpose/explanation to it. My social state would either be say next to nothing or talk someone's ear off. I still have to rigorously manage what I say, how much, never say anything negative, treat everyone like they or their mother is dieing of cancer, talk about them, not me. With so much management it is a wonder that I converse at all--viva la solitude and we know there is nothing wrong with solitude.

Oneplusone-sorry about the way your sisters are behaving. But remember that they are toxic and sometimes you do need a break from that even if they are 'family'. Even though the break may seemingly be on their terms, you may still benefit from the tranquility their snottiness is affording you. There are worse things than being alone-but you are not really alone are you? Be open to the idea of relief when being free of them (even if temporary).

smithfield- a couple of power boosting your way.

Flight-part of the concept of not taking the problems with us may lie in the idea of living in the present and not in the past. Not easy because of the brainwashing habit of behavior we were brought up with. But as conscious, intelligent adults, we can see the toxic behaviors and break the habits.

Right now I am detoxing from the confrontation with MS yesterday. I so feel the brainwashing to doubt myself and did I do the right thing? and maybe her perspective is innocent and I am applying false accusations to everything.....
It is the inner mechanism to move on to self-sabotage the hard won battle for me/myself/and I ( and dh, ds, dd1, dd2) ...more childhood training.
No,no,no TMSB will be ok.
I think it is akin to Danae and BladeBla financial deprivation to manifest the feeling of worthlessness. I achieve something but then because I'm invisible why have it? selfishness-I still struggle with having no sense of self--so I easily give it up.
It will be hard to redo my wardrobe-I watch those fashion shows and know what I face to be visible after so many years of being invisible. But I will do it: it is like I feel reborn along with my new daughter-a true and manifested (word of the day ) second chance for me.

[3NAB]

Hi everyone

I read some of my social services file today. I so could read between the lines. I wish SS had.

She "only had to hit me once." For ignoring her.

She didn't think she liked me on one visit.

She called me a swine.

But everything she has ever done was for me -

She got pregnant to trap my father and hasn't forgiven me for being a girl and not a boy.

She stopped my adoption going through as she thought my father would pay maintenance.

She once refused to pay maintenance for me - 56p.

She chose men friends more times than I can count over me.

Where I was happy and settled she caused trouble so I had to be moved but stayed away when I was unhappy.

When I was returned to children's homes she didn't want to know - she only wanted me when when others did but didn't want me when others didn't.

[oneplusone]

Hi all, just wanted to recommend a film I saw last night called Into The Wild about a guy from an abusive family who cuts himself off from them and goes off on a journey to find himself in a similar way to all of us, except he goes on an actual journey not just a mental one. I had no idea what it was about before i started watching, but the film spoke volumes to me although i was in tears at the end. It's based on a true story, i am going to try and get hold of the book(if there is a book).

Hope you're all enjoying the easter break. I'm finding it a bit depressing to be honest (the weather doesn't help) and as it's a holiday on monday when i would be seeing my counsellor i have had to rearrange it for next friday which seems like longer than i can wait.

Still haven't heard from either of my sisters, don't really know what to do. I could send a text to the one i am, or was in touch with, but then i would just be waiting for her to reply like i am waiting for her to reply to my emails. I am so fed up of all of this, i just want to put it behind me and move on. I don't care anymore if my sisters don't want to be in contact with me, i just want to know if that's the case so i can accept it and move on. Any tips on how i can mentally detach from them? I have been trying to do this but can't seem to manage it. I know really i need to hear something from them, whatever it is.

[ally90]

Bladebla

"I still feel very shaky and unstable (about day 3 of feeling like this). It feels as though nobody has believed me and that I am making it all up."

Your father not liking you is not your fault. Everyone has issues from childhood, perhaps his parents never liked him? I'm not excusing him...from adulthood onwards he had a choice to do things differently and I'm guessing decided to take the 'easy' path instead and do nothing about it. I too am always surprised when people actually like me...I expect to be thought of as a liar, to be unlikable and unwantable...but life is teaching me differently, sometimes I just need to take a step back and look at what friends/dh I have who all CHOOSE to spend time with me (and even be nice to me!). And even if you are not believed by family and friends, we believe you here. You sound like you are having a very strong emotional/physical reaction to your 'realisation'. It will pass, but just be good to yourself. Don't let that inner critical hating parent voice inside a chance to get to you. Use this thread instead to get the validation and some of the nurturing you need to get over the shock. xxx

Hi Kaz...hope your course is going well, amazing how the emotional pain we feel can transfer itself to physical sypmtoms. I've had back problems for years...the homeopath I saw years ago said that he back was the thing that kept you emotionally upright...and mine was very burdened so to speak, be interesting to hear what she would say about your leg, esp round family... Really hope you get what you need out of this course

Oneplusone - that is incrediably sad, so many years of depression. I wish I could say something to help you...well I suppose just keep on with your journey, your family did not deserve a dd like you As for your sisters...its often the case they are part of the family 'sweep it under the rug' attitude nothing you can do until one of them has a realisation. But if you need to speak about all this to them, just go prepared for their denial...look at the toxic parents list of responses first. Perhaps practice it too? And yes it is a lonely journey isn't it. But like you...I have this thread as my main support. Dh is good, but too harsh sometimes (on family), therapist wants me back with them , other friends listen sporadically and I end up ranting...wish I could just turn it off sometimes...but there again, not as bad as it all was...much better now

Jingleyjen - how long have you been hiding that about your rape at 12 and abortion at 19 have you ever been able to speak about it? You are so brave to have got through that. And you are the strong one to have done it alone. Your families abuse of you and your sister sounds horrific and terrifying. And then to pack it all away and pretend none of it happened...that is abuse yet again to expect you to sit on all that pent up anger/hurt/frustration. Your therapist sounds appalling. Perhaps now is the time to try for a new one? You need that nurturing attention to get over this tough patch...but could last a while. Perhaps interview them this time? Find someone who was abused themselves? I feel a bit suspect about therapists now who have not had a history of abuse, I don't think it is possible for them to truly understand how poisonous our families are to us. (((hugs)))

TMSB - not at all!!! Well done you that is fab!! So good you got it all out! (Wish I had done the same!) Must stop the exclamation marks now...!!! And the calmness...could that be emotional detachment? And you are hormonal!! I'm very impressed! And read your second post...Okay...so would you say all you said to ms to os? No of course you would not. You are NOT imagining her behaviour, remember the maternity leave? 'Picnic, sandwich, short of' spring to mind.

Hi 3Nab, I'm just so saddened by all that. Here is you reciting it all as an adult...but all that happened to a little dd. How bloody cruel and sadistic can you be? There seems to be a total lack of humanity in your mother, totally heartless to you. But none of how she was was your fault, you know that? You didn't deserve to be treated that way, not even your worst enemey should be treated like that. I think your mother must of had a horrific childhood to come out like this, and damaged to such an extent she could not even think of you as a small human being with needs and wants too. You have done incrediably well emotionally to come out and still have feelings and understand that other people have them too. You have succeeded and surpassed her despite her malicious behaviour towards you. I think that calls for a round of applause with a few cheers Hope that is not too out of place...

[ally90]

Now...my mother today has used her secret weapon, she has, I suspect, been trying to work for quite sometime...it is...my sister!! Ta daaa!! Here is what the bitch cow nasty piece of work lovely lady had to say.

Hmm hmmm

"Dear ally

I once said that I could never forgive you for your actions. I have, however, come to realise that I can forgive you and in time forgetfulness too is possible (not from where I'm sitting love). What is harder to repair is the loss of trust and the return to any semblance of a normal relationship (we had a normal relationship? Must have blinked and missed that one). What I am trying to say is that within a addams family it is never too late to change things, to forego reconciliation because of stubbornness (yeeesss...I'm the stubborn one, I remember only too well), pride, anger, hurt or any other such reason is foolish (thanks for that...I'll just erase my emotions then shall I?). There is always a way back (not if I shut, lock and bolt the door there isn't ).

It would take a lot of time (not sure we have that much time left...the sun will burn this world up before I trust you again you malicious unfeeling bint) to rebuild a relationship (huh? When did we have one????) and relearn trust (I've never trusted you!!), but it can be done (under torture?). You can deny me (yup), ignore me (sounds good so far...) and never speak to me again (HALLAUJAH!!!), but you can never change the fact that I am your sister (unfortuately not). While I may not always like you (Well that comes as a shock...) and have been extremely angry (mmm dreadfully sorry about that) and hurt (she has feelings? Well that's a first) I have always loved (you....have...a....heart....of....stone....) you because you are my sister (thank goodness for that...cause if you liked me for who I am I would have to fall out with myself).

With love

The Wicked Witch Of The North ally's sister

Gosh that feels so much better.

Any thoughts anyone? Sorry about the bracketed bits...just had to tell her how I feel about her.

[Sakura]

Just popping in to say hi. I dont have as much time these days to read. Maybe thats a good thing in a way. This thread has gone me through some bad times...<br /> Danae, I just glossed over and i wanted to ask you about what your therapist said about your finances. That sounded really fascinating.<br /> ABout the fact that you were keeping yourself poor to reflect your mental state!!<br /> This is me! I feel like my finances have run away with me. I have 2 huge student loans and just feel sometimes that Ill never ever pay them off as long as I live, so whats the point in trying? Some days I look at how much I owe and it overwhelmes me. Then other days I look at it and I think hang on, if I could just cut back on clothes and lattes I could easily do this! But I think, like you, I have this need to be poor or on the poverty line, or worried about where the next meal is coming from! Its wrapped up in my identity somehow! My mother used to say to me "Youll never be rich"! but I always took it to mean that I wasnt materialistic. While I like to think Im not money driven, I think it was an ominous prediction from her because it was almost like my destiny would be to be constantly out of control so that Id need her to dig me out again and again.
Does any of this make sense?

[ally90]

Oh and I got the traditional easter card from her (mother and sisters tradition...we're not even religious) and it was 'To Ally and family'...what about dh and dd? She know's their names!!

I suppose I should be adult and serious now...I'll just get a cup of tea first...

It feels a very angry letter? I feel that she does not fully describe, at all, my 'actions' as she puts it. Does she mean towards her personally or me breaking contact with my mother? She has never told me what I did that was so wrong...I've had to guess. I feel she is telling me...no she is telling me my emotions/feelings are foolish. Which is quite normal from her. She's making out that she is doing me this massive favour by getting back in contact with me...making the first move and all that. But not once does she ask 'is there anything I have done to hurt you?' Not once does she mention the example in my mothers letter (I'm presuming she saw it) of her bullying me. Did she just blank the way she treated me as a child/adult and think its okay to treat people like that? That I would think it okay behaviour from a sister because we are family? Going off at a tangent now. I do not feel that we can or should forget all this, I do not feel inclined to forgive her behaviour or her denial of my feelings. I don't want her in contact with me or my dd. She is a bully. And this letter gives me no reason to believe that she has actually changed, at all.

May come back on again and chunter some more...helps to type it all out...