"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

[oneplusone]

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

[MoreSpamThanGlam]

Hello!
Can i join in? Have been avoiding this thread for some time now. Wonder why?

Its been almost a month since I spoke to my abusive drunk mother and a little longer since I spoke to my cutting hurtful father.

Im having art therapy at the moment which is amazing.

Im currently trying to work out how to tell my needy, lonely, pain in tharse drunken mother that I dont want her in my life any more.

[kaz33]

Hi Spamglam, welcome - have you looked at some of the books - toxic parents is a good starter which has info on divorcing parents

[MoreSpamThanGlam]

my art therapist actually suggested it. Am off to waterstones tomorrow

[Danae]

Message withdrawn

[Danae]

Message withdrawn

[matildax]

hello again all, i will write again when i get more time,
ally90,.... its really hard isnt it? i think even therapists, whether intentionally or not, will judge you, and will want you to agree with their way of thinking.
oneplusone,.... your relationships with your children from what i have read seems to mirror mine.
I have a strained relationship with my dd2 who is only 5, (in so many ways she reminds me of me when i was little) although i was a lot more quiet, and withdrawn, and would play alone for hours, (probably because of what happened to me) despite having older sisters.
it breaks my heart that i can lose my temper with her so ferociously, at times, and also someone else mentioned, i think it was smithfield, that she is so in tune with my erratic moods, she also sees the difference in my face sometimes and will apologize, even if my mood or emotions at that time are nothing to do with her. its so so sad, and makes me cry loads.
its a circle of behaviour that i must break, as i fear i will damage her emotionally.
Some days are great, and i am trying to have time out just me and her, to do something without daddy and her little brother,or her older sister who is 19 and does not live with us full time, and we both seem to get loads from this time.
so thats a positive.
to everyone else, please stay srong, just reading your posts makes me feel i am not alone, and more importantly not (totally) crazy!!

[oneplusone]

Hi all, just wanted to let you know how my 'therapist interviews' went. No. 1 was good, she seemed to understand and I felt comfortable with her and talked about a lot more stuff than i had anticipated I would seeing as she was a complete stranger. But like i said previously, i did feel slighly uncomfortable at her expression at something i said. I had been talking about my mum and how she always left me out of things and went off with my 2 youngers sisters all the time and basically just ignored me. She looked shocked and surprised when i told her that and i knew it was because even though she might have had lots of experience and training as a counsellor, she had no personal experience of a dysfunctional family and so found it hard to actually accept/beleive that a mother could mistreat her child in that way.

No.2 i realised straightaway was not going to be right. She didn't seem to have any understanding of what i was saying and although she was clearly trying her best she simply didn't understand.

No.3 on the other hand was perfect. I could tell just from talking to her on the phone that she seemed to be on the same wavelength as me, and she trained at an institute of which Alice Miler is the patron. And she herself is a survivor of childhood abuse and that immediately showed in everything she said to me. My first proper session with her is next week but i feel confident she will be able to help and support me in the way i need.

One thing i found useful when interviewing the counsellors was to ask them the questions recommended by Alice Miller. They're on her website, i can try and do a link to the exact page if anyone is interested.

Sorry, have to go now, back soon. x

[JingleyJen]

RL has been getting to be a bit this last couple of weeks and a woman I hardly know but am involved with came to find out if I was OK because I had missed two church meetings.
and for some reason I told her the truth about why I wasn't there.. the poor woman got a level of detail out of me that I haven't even told my mother..
In voicing it to her I have stupidly opened the flood gates as she hasn't told any detail but I have had 3 concerned calls from various church members..
I am in a mess and just trying to understand so much of this stuff myself.. I don't want to be talking to these people about it .... Why couldn't I just keep my stupid mouth closed? I don't want to explain to them. How can I explain fear to them how can I let them know that I would prefer for them all to think that I am too lazy to attend than for them to know I am crying with anxiety at the thought of going..

Oh I am doing it again..

[kaz33]

JJ - as a general rule, talking is better than not talking.

But they need to be the right people without judgement. I have a group of friends who have been very supportive of me over the last few month and I feel unjudged. Maybe the right people, also when you start to delve beneath the surface our experiences are not as unusual as you think

[JingleyJen]

I know they need to be the right people and I got it wrong again..

[ally90]

Jingley Jen, you have foot in mouth syndrome too? Thought it was just me

Don't mean that in the usual way...just I tend to go and blurt things out to virtual strangers/aquaintences/unsuitable friends...and then spend rest of week kicking myself for doing so. But you have had 3 concerned calls. Damage limitation? Tell them they heard right, you thank them for their concern but rather not discuss it any further as it causes you more anxiety?

I do think this blurting out the truth to people is just a deep rooted need to be heard and understood. I feel like a small child homeless on a street tugging at the adults coats as they go by, begging for someone to see and hear me... or is that an analogy too far? I really do feel that pitiful at times...

Anyway Jen, you can speak more on here if you feel it will give you the support you need? I know having the truth written down can feel uncomfortable...perhaps take babysteps...

Oneplusone...thanks for that. I think that is definately what I will go for next time...someone with an abusive past and have a different take on it to my current therapist. I just don't hold this fundermental thinking that you should remain in contact with family as separtion causes pain all round and that YOU as the 'adult' in the family should basically teach the disfunctional family how to behave so you can remain in contact with them/not driven up the wall by them. Anyway, let us know how your sessions go... hope it goes well

[Pages]

Hi everyone, have barely touched base let alone caught up, but just wanted to pop on and say a big welcome to the new babies and that I've been thinking of you all. My computer crashed a couple of weeks ago and I have had very limited access to the internet, hate this bloody laptop, be back soon. Thanks again Ally for permission not to be monitor!!!

Keep on keeping on all of you, you are all fab!

[JingleyJen]

thanks ally
I went to a community event today and the husband of the lady I blurted to smiled a really pityful smile at me.. I just knew that she had told him..
One other lady has phoned me and told me that I should remember that we all have baggage and we are all human and if I ever needed a shoulder I should call her - Argh!!! all these people thinking they are being kind just making me want to shy away from things and I have just spent the last 3 years building a life where no one knows anything about me other than the bits I have chosen to tell them!!

I have gone down the damage limitation route and said I was having a bad day all is well and the stuff I talked about was 20 years ago and is in the past.

Babysteps indeed. it does help to start to link behaviour I have today with things that have happened in the past, it means I am not a total friutloop (or should that be friutshoot on MN?}

Thanks again

[oneplusone]

Hi all, I went to see my therapist today for the first 'proper' session. She is fantastic, and she really seems to understand, and picks up on things which I secretly want to talk about but am a bit scared to. I ended up crying unexpectedly, but I take that as a good sign, I would rather my emotions were 'out' than 'in' as they have been all these years.

I didn't have time to talk to her about my 2 sisters. I haven't heard from either of them for a while and I start becoming anxious when this happens. I hate myself for this. I wish I didn't care about what they thought of me and how they feel about me but i do. They are the only family i have left and i feel it is so unfair that they s

[oneplusone]

whoops.... see me as the 'baddie' when I have been treated much worse than they ever were by our parents and have suffered in so many ways as a result, emotionally and physically. It feels like a double whammy, first to have been abused by my parents and now to be 'abused' by my sisters although the abuse is now taking a different form.

And the two of them are fairly close so they have each other and I have nobody. Can i ever come to terms with this? It's very painful.

[RiojaLover75]

Have been a regular lurker but only just got up the courage to post on this subject. However a text I received today has prompted me to post. From my 'mother' (dripping with sarcasm) 'Thanks for my birthday card!'

I'm really pissed off with her, she abandoned me and my younger sister when I was four. We got back in contact when I was 12 and ever since she just wants to be our Mum, asking us to call her Mum etc, doesn't even acknowledge the hurt she's done to me and my sister.

She's annoyed that she didn't receive a mothers day card or a birthday card......

She should try being in my shoes! Argggghhhhh.

Sorry I really needed to vent and if anyone is in a similar situation please feel free to comment/ give advice etc.

[JingleyJen]

No advice as feel I am down in a pit at the moment emotionally but just wanted to say how welcoming and lovely everyone has been on this thread, I am sure someone will have great words of wisdom.

[RiojaLover75]

Thanks JJ, hope you're feeling better soon.

[smithfield]

oneplusone- I totally feel for you with regard to your sisters. This is exactly how I feel/have felt with my siblings. Especially my sister. I feel as though I have almost replicated my relationship with my mother with her and only just realising that now.
I feel I am the only one who ever gave to the relationship, she witholds and gives nothing. She was often cold, and critical treating me as someone who needs fixing. So just like with my mother really.
I have/am in the process of emotionally divorcing her at the moment. I feel it is the only way forward 'for me' currently. A relationship with her is just too painful and one sided. I feel better for it already.
Im not saying this is what you should do by any means but just to say I relate to your pain as it does feel like one loss after another for me too, but on the other side of the pain and sadness I feel happier IYKWIM.

Danae - just wanted to say thankyou for your lovely post. You have such a knack with words and hitting the right note.
Love the idea about a sling for ds btw! He loves the idea too. I asked him and he got so excited about it when he saw my sling. I said I'd have to order one for him though, and he'd have to wait for it to be delivered.
Later that night the food shopping got delivered and he asked the man from tesco's where his sling was!

Rlover-
Yes I relate to what you are saying. My mother (when I was still in touch with her) used to always say 'dont forget mothers day, my birthday etc', and god help you if you did forget.
It's as if they kid themselves they are such great mothers and that birthdays and mothers day's are when the collect their rewards for being such.
This year was the first time I didnt send a mothers day card. I honestly felt no remorse, just a little sadness on her behalf for her being so deluded.

Jingleyjen- Im so sorry you are feeling so low.
Please dont beat yourself up for blurting out stuff about yourself. It really doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Although Im sure it feels like 'everything' to you right now. There is a lot of feelings of guilt and shame at every turn for those who have suffered abuse. Try and remember those feelings are projected on you, not caused by you.
You are going through a very difficult time, you have permission to make a split second error in judgement.
Boundaries are a difficult area for all of us on here, but maybe you tell this woman, that you blurted out what you did without thinking? That you are 'not' ready to talk to 'ANYONE' about this, and to please
pass that message on to anyone she may have talked to?
Chances are you wont feel like saying that but please know you do have a right to say this and that it's ok to say this and that chances are these people are nothing like your parents and 'WILL' respect that right.
Please write some more if you can...it may help you through this low point.

As for me I had my lowest day ever y'day. DD did not sleep most of the night (night before last) and cried/screamed through most of the day... sorry 'all' of the day with a 40min break only.

By 3'oclock I broke down

crying....screamed 'shutup'...(thankfully she was the other sid of the room at this point'). I feel terrible for this.

I realised at this point there was no longer an adult in the room, but there was two children. A screaming baby and a six year old. I am convinced that this stems back to me being left with my brother screaming when I was six. I wish I could remember more than the one incident as surely one isolated incidnet could not have had such a profound effect?

Anyway I do feel much better today. DD slept well last night and I am convinced she is suffering with bad reflux atm.

Try telling that to the six year old though

[BlaDeBla]

Hello all. May I join you? I've been trying to read this with some success. I looked at the Alice Miller link. I have known about her for years, but never delved further.

A couple of weeks ago, it occured to me that my father simply doesn't like me. He has never (apart from a couple of occasions) shown any affection or behaved in any way that would suggest liking any of his family. It was quite a shock, and in some ways a great relief.

What I am finding now is that it is really hard, and I feel that although I am kind of accepting the situation, I am not to be believed. It makes it very difficult to do things in life when a) you don't expect people to like or want you, and b)you are not to be believed.

I'm slightly reeling from all of that and these days I am without my crap crutches of eating problems, and alcohol although I still suffer from depression and low self-esteem.

What an introduction! I'm in my 40s, have had therapy of one sort or another for 25+ years. I have a wonderful husband (usually), 2 gorgeous kids and a lot of things are not too bad. Financially, I am in a mess, and I would love to find the confidence to feel a sense of worth.

[oneplusone]

hi smithfield, it's very difficult going from 1 DC to 2. Don't be too hard on yourself, and it will get easier with time. I hired a part time nanny when I had DS and i couldn't have managed without her. Is that an option for you?

The situation with my sisters is so much harder for me to handle than that with my parents. I realise now that i had emotionally detached from my parents a long, long time ago, and so it was very easy for me to physically detach myself as i did almost 2 years ago. But i am still emotionally attached to my sisters and I'm finding it very hard to let go of them.

I don't even really know why as they weren't particularly nice to me when we were children. They were quite nasty to me in fact, especially my middle sister, and we were never very close so i have no real idea why i am still so attached to them.

The whole thing is sooo unjust and i think that's what hurts. I was the one who was treated the worst by our dad, and i was also not in the least bit close to our mother so i was essentially 'on my own'. Whereas with my sisters, although my dad did treat them fairly badly as well, they were always very close to my mum so they always had her love and support as well as each other.

I have recently sent an email to my youngest sister explaining a bit about how i felt as i was growing up, how lonely and left out i felt, but she hasn't replied. I feel quite angry as i feel she has no right to judge me as she had a completely different childhood to me.

I also haven't heard from my middle sister for a while and it could be simply that she has been very busy, or that she is annoyed with me for some reason, althogh i have no idea what that could be as we went to hers for lunch a few weeks ago and everything was fine.

I am beginning to feel i would simply be better off without them, but before i take that step i would like a chance to speak to them openly and honestly and also to hear what they have to say as well. Otherwise it all just feels like 'unfinished business' and i know it will forever be on my mind and i won't be able to move on.

A while ago i was angry with both my sisters for how they have treated me, both in the past and more recently, but i feel now that they are simply behaving as they have been 'trained' to by our parents ie to treat me with no respect or regard for my feelings. And perhaps this is the way they will always treat me unless they open their eyes to the reality of our dysfuntional family, parents and childhood.

[oneplusone]

Hi bladebla, of course you are welcome! Well done for posting and for having the courage to face up to the truth about your father. It is a very hard thing to do but also very liberating.

Alice Miller is fantastic, there is so much help and information on her website. You say you have had therapy for a long time, but do you have the right kind of therapist? This is crucial to recovering from an abusive childhood and I would strongly recommend you look at Alice Miller's tips on finding the right therapist or 'enlightened witness' as she describes him/her. If you can't find the page on her website post again and i'll try and post a link for you. x

[ally90]

Hi all, welcome RiojaLover75 and Bladebla, congrats on posting for your first time its a big step to come clean about family.

Smithfield - hmm...last night I booted a pair of my dh jeans across the room (and heard a satisfying 'bang clunk' against the wall where his metal belt hit it ) when dd started crying for the 3rd time in about an hour after been settled twice already ie cuddles and some water...f*ing fuming I was...could not see what was wrong with her...I think she's just going through a clingy patch which is normal I know...but being woken time after time...and you had a day and a night of it? No wonder you were at the end of your tether...and reflux is no picnic, so I understand for the threads I've read...any chance you can allow yourself a break when dh comes home? Maybe even a nap? Did you know you can buy a doidy cup and if you are breastfeeding the baby finds it easier to adjust to a cup than a bottle. When they use a cup/breastfeed they use their tongue, apparently they just lap up the milk from the cup. Just a thought

Anyway...
My mother has been to my home to handdeliver 3 cards (dh, me and dh (easter card knowing her) and card for dd) none of which I have opened. I had been out with dd, and saw her randomly walking back into town (nice surprise that was...), its about a 4 mile walk from there to where I live. She also dropped through a wad of stuff from the grandparents association, highlighting paragraphs in it, there is also a picture of her and my sisters cat, printed top and bottom 'have a purrfect mothers day grandma'. A page on how 'common sense' has been lost, it was talking about people who put in claims for jumped up things like spilling coffee on yourself, you know the cases no payout no fee. As if I have lost all common sense? And it mentions being a 'victim'. She's highlighted lots of bits about 'family feuds' being the reason she has no contact with my dd. There's a picture of a grandmother and gc on the leaflet and under she has written 'lucky gm lucky gc'. And now I've just read back through that and thought how weak it all sounds! Progress! Oops read though again and feel I'm getting sucked back in again! I've bundled it all up and going to pop it all in loft. Feel a strong temptation to read it again...must be strong though. What would it achieve? Me being angry/hurt/frustrated, I will want to send something to correct her story that its all a family feud. Its the first time she has clearly said that anywhere. So that is obviously how she took my letter all about her abuse. She saw it as a cover for my being angry about how she dealt with a disagreement we had the summer before I broke contact. If only it were that shallow, it all goes much much deeper than that as all of you know. Please validate me!! Bloody mother, can she not just leave me alone? And again all this bumpf was all about grandparents rights (which there are none before I start a mass panic!). I cannot go to my therapist about this as he will just start trying to lead me back into contact again good job we finish in june.

Okay, damage limitation exercise.

1. Yes she was at my house, BUT outside my house. It is still a safe place to be. She cannot enter without my permission which I would never give, or my dh.

1. Is being pitiful/emotionally blackmailing the only thing she can do? What about some honest to god 'I never knew you were suicidal, I should not have 'teased' you with your sister or alone etc' acknowledgement/apology? She has three examples in the letter I sent. I cannot clarify it more.

1. I can CHOOSE how to react to this. I can feel panicy (hmmm..yep feeling that one!) and stressed and dizzy. That is anxiety. What has caused anxiety, 3 cards and a pamphlet. I do not have to accept anything she says, the family feud is her experience of our split. She is reading into my letter and twisting it so she is not responsible for being a bully to her youngest child. Well I will not shoulder the blame for my mother's behaviour. How she behaved then and now was her choice. I cannot change that. What I can change is how I deal with it. Do I take on her burden of guilt and responsibility? Or do I leave it where it belongs? With my mother? Put like that, I choose to leave it with my mother. I cannot help her, she can only help herself. Its sad she does not have the insight into her own behaviour and see just how hurtful teasing and bullying is.

And now I feel nice and chilled and relaxed again. Well done me! I'm okay, she's okay.

Still awake people?

Going to make special tea and then read and see what the flylady is doing today... nice clean house makes me feel happy and feng shuied (or however you spell it...)

[Flight]

Hi everyone, been invited over by Ally and Smithfield - having a few probs with my mother.
Reading that last post Ally, my troubles pale into insignificance - your mum sounds terrifying
I hope nobody minds me joining anyway.

One thing before I delve in and read everyone's posts, what about the other parent?

One nasty side effect every time I think I am falling out with mum, is that she holds the strings with Dad as well, and I love him to bits.

I'm not allowed to contact him without going through her - if I call him at work to ask a favour, or email him or anything really she gets a bee in her bonnet and gets narky with us both. It was always like that...I recall feeling as a little girl, that she was jealous of the time I spent with him doing woodwork etc. and always took it out on him.

I was his 'favourite' as we got on when she chose my big sister to be her 'special' one. (none of this was spoken you understand)

Anyway I don't want to make him feel he is stuck between us. If I stop being so close with her, I risk losing him too as he will feel so awful about it.

So I think I have to have the facade of being nice even if the walls inside my head are three feet deep

How do you all manage this type of thing?

[ally90]

Flight - you got here! Welcome!

I tried to separate my dad from my mum...not in a divorce way, but I tried to have a separate relationship with my dad without her around and sadly it did not work. I was the closer to my dad, my sister despises him, and is my mothers special one (similar to your experience). So I very painfully broke contact with him, as he clearly sided with my mother ie trying to bring pressure to bear to get us back into contact, bringing items/letters/cards/presents from her when I was still a new mum and my dd only days old . Oh and the background I had sent a letter to my mother when I was 8 mth pg to ask her to have no contact for the time being as that was what I needed at the time, tried to get her to think of her gc as well who I was pg with ie put the mother to be first...but no, grandma comes first. Oh and was it you who said that your mother viewed you as her mother? My experience again. Bad mummy, poor deprived children...very painful.

And fwiw...your mother sounds more twisted than mine! Maybe what I would have had to experience had I let her be around me. You really are doing the right thing moving away from this...sometimes you need the physical distance to survive. And as for your dc...we've all heard of children being harmed from not having any parents around, but did you hear of a child being damaged by having no grandparents around? No. Well unless you listen to my mother... all would have been fine with her if her grandmother had been in contact, despite the fact her mother had chosen that she did not want her around...my great grandmother has this angel like golden glow around her according to my mothers version of events, despite the fact she never met her and she died when she was six feel for her but she needs some help to emotionally move on...but not from me or my dd. We are not pills to be taken to keep madness from the door.

Sorry, its all about me...hope some of it helps...I'm just that way out today... .

Just another thought, your dad may react differently to mine, but given he was in the same house as you and saw what went on...could he be a 'bystander'? Sometimes the worst relationship we have with our parents masks the relationship we had with our other parent. But you don't have to do anything now or overnight, get on with your move and see what happens over time. babysteps all the way