"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

[oneplusone]

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

If there is one book you need it is that one.

IMVHO it's the best book I read in understanding the situation between myself and my parents. It really opened my eyes.

Buy it. Like now!

Good Luck x

How does it help? Does it tell you why they are the way they are? But how can that be, every one is dfferent.

Charlene, I think it is really good that you have "Let them have it". I wish I was this confident at expressing my feelings. You have said what you wanted to say and that is really healthy. Don't feel guilty. They hurt you and you told them they hurt you. This is perfectly reasonable. If they 'counterattack' then the quotes from 'the book' in Attila's post are useful. Memorize/modify them to make them understand.

Electra, if you feel like you just can't get past the issues from childhood then you should seriously consider therapy. You've tried to think through it by yourself, it hasn't worked, you need a professional who understands how the mind works and has heard similar stuff from lots of different people.

Have you been able to talk to people in RL about it? A lot of them can't understand if they haven't had similar experiences. This thread comes a close second to therapy though!

Smithfield, I get the feeling you think you are being a 'drip' at the moment - you are NOT. I have a lot of respect for you and the strength you have shown so far. There is no shame in going to the doctors or taking ADs. Making this decision and doing something positive is a STRONG thing to do.

You have done the right thing by telling your MIL how she made you feel - try not to feel guilty (same as Charlene) - she upset you, you told her, that is perfectly reasonable. This is what 'normal' people do.

She hasn't responded because she doesn't know what to say. She already apologised, which she might have found hard because people do find it hard, so she probably won't want to say sorry again for the same thing. You could text back and say "I appreciate the apology though, let's not mention it again".

Lots of times I have written/texted things instead of saying them face to face because I was too scared. I forgive myself and I think you should too. You still said it, which is better than not saying it! You have been honest with MIL and this is better for her. If you are more articulate in writing and can make yourself understood better (I know this is true for me), then writing is the best way. You found a way to say something you were scared to say. That is a good thing.

Why do you swallow other people's bad feelings to let them off the hook? - probably because you are a nice person. You know how bad it feels to feel bad, and you don't like making other people feel that way. It is a nice trait. But you shouldn't do it for things you feel really strongly about because you will feel worse and for longer than they would feel if you did say what you think. I think your MIL will probably let it blow over fairly quickly (or do you know from past experience that she won't?)

Your feelings are important too. If you treat yourself as being important by saying what you want to say it will help you to feel more important.

I give out all this advice as if I'm some kind of authority . I wish I had the strength to take my own advice. Sometimes things are easier to see from outside though.

I am seeing the solicitor tmw and I know I won't sleep tonight for worrying about it.

What am I going to be like when I am actually going to court? [worried]

Just ramble posting. No need to reply.

I just want it over with.

Focus on DD being 5 at the weekend

Feel like she has had no build up

Attila and Acting Normal - thank you so much for your posts, I really appreciate it. Wow Attila - the quotes you put in have got my parents off to a tee - I am expecting all those reponses you mention - or a complete silence. They specialise in "washing their hands" and "finishing" with family members. I have no siblings, but remember all too clearly how they treated my aunty (dad's sister) when my gran died - aunty understandably wanted a keepsake of her jewellery which was promised to her - my parents said she was getting nothing, saw a solictor to try and cut her out of the will and everything. Main reason was because she "lived in a council house" and wasn't good enough for them (forgetting that my mother was born and raised in one of course!!!) They have refused to speak to my aunty ever since (this happened 20 odd years ago now), and always ordered me "not to have anything to do with her as she's a waste of time". I liked my aunty but was always "scared" to contact her or say hello in the street - even as an adult!
I could never have said all that face to face, as when I get angry or emotional I stutter, and she always used to sneer and imitate me stammering and tell me how pathetic I was. My DP said once in a row that I was scared of seeing them because I still believe they will hit me if I "misbehave" in their eyes - yes I do believe that they think they can still get away with it - but the trouble is, now I would not hesitate to hit back as hard as I could - and then would have the worry of getting arrested myself for it - then she'd win!

AN - your letter is very well expressed but I wouldn't want to tell you either way whether to send it or not!!! I'd hate to make it worse for you.
My letter was far less "polite" - 34 years of anger sent with one email, written during a bad case of PMS and extreme tiredness!!!
I too can always suggest things people could do, that I'd never "dare" do myself!
I've always been full of wanting to help someone else, but can't help myself.

I asked for counselling years ago from my GP but was told to "pull myself together" and ordered to take Prozac (which I refused to take, but is now on my record anyway for "depression" which I hate). Have looked into private counselling, but could never afford it/not local etc but tbh, I get far more from this site than I would from sitting in a room with a stranger. I have tried opening up to certain people at work with a few hints now and again, but they are not the sort of people who could ever understand - not like here!! I wouldn't feel comfortable telling a stranger anything when I'm in the sanme room - I could never get past the thought they were just there because they were being paid/looking down on me/getting impatient with my whinging and self pity etc. In my experience, if I tell someone something, then they will use it against me and throw it back at me - 9/10 they have done so, so I tend not to bother now in RL.

Attila's post, further up rings many bells for me.

I have tried to open discussions with my parents about the way I have felt regarding their treatment of me at various times but they are completely unreceptive to it and usually get angry very quickly and launch into a tirade of verbal abuse. I am always made to feel that it was my fault, that I have always been difficult and caused nothing but trouble for them all my life (one of these things was that I had an unplanned baby at 21 and they wanted me to have an abortion).

My mother will typically take the approach that they have done their best for me, and that if I can't see that or if I felt wronged by their behaviour it is somehow down to a flaw in my character.

My psychiatrist said to me that I must make sure my children don't have the same upbringing I had and that I must make sure they grow up having the tools that I lack to cope with their lives in normal ways. Does anyone have any thoughts regarding how we can avoid the 'sins of the fathers'?

I am going to read that book which has been recommended...also can anyone tell me how you find a good therapist to deal with this stuff?

My mother, in particular says bad things about me to other members of the family and also family friends. When I see my mother she often announces things like "Well I have told John all about you and he says we're wonderful, kind and loving parents who did far more for you than most would do for their children"

Also have had comments like, if my father has a heart attack it will be my fault (nothing to do with the fact that he's an alcoholic, is very overweight, lies in bed all day and eats in the middle of the night)

stuff like "You're killing us"

It's only now that I'm starting to feel angry about it all - has been going on for years.

Hello waves new but a lurker, in a similar situation to lots of the people here.

ActingNormal - I have tried the 'emotionally ill' approach before but found it made me feel really guilty about judging my mother and being so cautious around her! In a way though, I found it very useful as it stops me yelling (which I don't find really gets me anywhere) and keeps me relatively sympathetic to her moods without actually getting involved/affected/stressed out by them. I would definately say it's worth trying out (isn't it true in a way after all?) but will probably need a few tweaks to be satisfied with.

On a more me note
I have got to this sort of point with my mother I feel like most of the time I can be satisfied with her behaviour, but yesterday I just couldn't. Told her I was pregnant (DP and I are very excited about this and both - for the sense of perspective in our early twenties responsible adults with income [rented] home etc) and she cried and cried, and acted like I'd just ruined my life. I couldn't help but be disappointed and upset, would it actually have been that hard to at least say congratulations even if she hadn't meant it??

I can't face seeing her now, even though I know I will have to in order to get her 'used' to the idea of the baby before he/she arrives. I can't just avoid her forever because she still lives with my dad who is lovely and very supportive, he makes an effort to come and see us instead of us going there as much as possible, but it's still difficult. I just don't really know how to handle this, tbh.

I am so happy.

Today I told my mother we would be moving out the house she 'lent us the deposit for' (read acts as our landlord and is the main thing she uses to control me).

It will take us 6-8 months. She will not sell the house, we knew that. We will get nothing from the mortgage we paid for years and years, but to move, to have a home she has nothing to do with, no control over to make our own choices it will be worth all we have.

I feel happy for the first time. Really happy. I can see a life in front of me that is mine - that I can do with what I like. I can do anything I want to. This time next year I should be free. I have a target to aim for. I am a person, I am a complete person all by myself.

There is going to be hard times ahead - I know it isn't going to be easy. I took her by surprise, I had preprepared all the answers and it will be harder when she has time to think. But I got to the lowest point I could. I wanted to die and nothing will send me back there again. No matter how hard it will be (and she will throw things at me) I know what the cost is to come this far and then let her take back the control.

So this is me. I am counting down the days till my freedom.

And whatever my ds does in his life - it will be his to do what he wants with. I don't care what he wants to do as long as the choices are his.

Yay! Go TheArmadillo!!

Thank you

I will look back at this.

I feel like I am on a high. I was so scared. I nearly backed out, but I did it anyway.

Things that should be obvious are finally becoming clear to me.

I didn't get my dp cos of luck, because he wanted a head case to sort out - I got him because I am me.

I have friends who are friends with me, not cos they want something, not cos I offer them a project, not cos it's convinient, but because they like me

I am not sure who I am, what I like, what I think, what I feel, but hell, I've got a whole life time to find out. And it's my life. Not a depressing endless monotony of nothingness, of being a robot, unable to act unless given instructions and orders, but something sparkling blue (I have very visual pictures of stuff like time - is weird but cool) that is mine that is full of possibility.

And I feel like a person. All me - a real complete person, with feelings and thoughts and a personality all of my own.

And it feels good.

And yes I am raving, but I don't care.

This is MY life and boy is it going to be good.

Armadillo, what excellent news! You were incredibly strong and it will make a huge difference. I will have a glass of wine for you (any excuse )

Thanks

2 months ago I was contemplating suicide because I felt there was no way out.

Thanks to people on here I have found one. Nothing I can do can repay you lot for what you have done.

So thanks.

Hi all

SHYBABY hope to see you on here soon, read your thread in AIBU and hope you read this far, didn't think you would want the thread bumping again though

((((((Smithfield))))) glad you are looking after yourself. If you have any AD's left when your done can you send them on to me when my PND kicks in . Doubt I'm going to escape it either. I suspect I had it first time round (world was grey bad scary place for months) and I suspect it was due to the FOG (fear obligation guilt) I was suffering at not allowing my mother near my dd. It was a very hard bleak time. ((((((Smithfield))))))) Please keep posting, don't lock it all up...you can get validation here for your feelings, we'll be your virtual mum (as opposed to the RL mum) Piles and heaps of hot towels your way

TheAmadillo wow...when I first read your posts I felt desparate for you, and spoke to dh about your situation and how nearly impossible it seemed you would have the emotional willpower to escape...and your doing it!!! ...feel all teary for you So glad you've fought back! Big big blue ribbon trophy to you (still don't know what it is but its an honour ). I'm sure your mum will come back with some corkers...perhaps keep Toxic Parents by your bedside for nightly refreshers (Divorce a parent was my bible by my bed when I was separating) and maybe print out a list of Toxic Parent responses to confrontation stuck up somewhere? You could also keep a journal to keep a track on her responses and your response to them to remind you how far you have come. If your ever not sure on ANYTHING she does post on here...don't stew over it without some support. So you will be moving out 8 mths from now...that will be April 09, springtime Fab time for a fresh start! Liking your visualisation btw

TMSB - has the witch MIL been and gone? Were you Mrs Invisible? at her and dil ignoring you...so damn rude!

Itati - 5 years old and no stabilisers! Sounds a special moment Yep up north for my sins . ((((Itati)))) for the other day. Just some thoughts from when I saw my therapist...he said when I had problems with my dd (ie acting up, hitting me) its because I was not 'connecting' to her. I found it helped to keep making eye contact(very bad at this) and to realise I was not a bad mum. When I feel a bad mum I turn away from dd and she can tell just come through a long patch of this...had not even realised what had put the distance there. Things still are not 100% but better than they were.

The book describes general characteristics...and believe me you will find yourself nodding along to it...that your parent is actually written about in a book! lol not all people will fit into one 'grouping' though...often they will fit in several.

ActingNormal - re your post many moons ago (this thread moves fast!) I would agree with my parents using me to feel more important...like the 'life sucking'...yes...always felt that...they lived through me and my sister as they got older...I used to raise my voice (or shout ) 'get your own life!'. I just felt revulsion when I was pg knowing how much they would slide into my mind and try to take over and live through myself and dd...ugh!!

"I talk 'tough' sometimes but am worried about how much of a drip I am recently. When I read one of your posts Smithfield, it made me think, I have always been scared to make anyone angry with me or upset anyone or hurt anyone or say what I want or don't want."

And you think we're all (most?) not like that in real life!!! I talk tough on here too...and give advice and don't take it myself Drip is not the word...fear of confrontation, rejection, verbal agression...that is what I fear. The friendships I have that don't work I just phase out, stop contacting and inviting and meeting up, people (exception of stalkers) get tired soon enough of doing the running...I actually feel guilty about doing this to one of my friends, and I'm wondering if I'm BU but she has wobberly boundries (ie always being cheeky asking for lifts), disaproves of my parenting, has made a personal comment about my feet (see about stripy socks)...(I sound so oversensitive!)...so reading that...nope don't want her around me despite her being sociable and funny, tis not enough to tempt me back. I cultivate friendships in which people treat me nicely and have boundries. BTW my councellor did say that I should stand up for myself as an example to dd...I would rather let her see me round people who don't treat me like that. I've had enough of that crap in my life.

"It should not be my job to make people behave properly by telling them to stop, but I do need to tell them to stop." Thanks for that one Hope you are able to say something to FIL one day Remember his behaviour is the problem, your response to his behaviour is normal (esp with your background)

Re your mums phonecall - its hard when they are nice. A) you doubt yourself. B) You feel like a bitch. C) You hate them for trying now when it is all too late. In fact what you put. Remember boundries can be changed, try them out, if they don't fit and you are not comfortable, change them again in some way. And tbh I think I would choke at the thought of talking to someone who had not acknowledged my feelings. With my dad I kept things light and on my dd. Strange he didn't ever mention my being suicidal by the age of 9... . I felt a great tension in the air because it was unspoken. Remember you could cancel it? Something unavoidable came up?

Re your dh, you can't brush it under the carpet, all 'dealt with'. It's with you for life and there will be times you feel angry again. Him feeling embarressed about no contact is his responsibility, not your's. Its your mental wellbeing we are talking of here! That is more important than any 'embarressment'.

Re your letter, good letter, don't post. Just come to that decision myself actually...why bother if all they do is twist things round/head in sand/deny etc. I kept thinking if only I could write a letter that they could not argue with...but they would argue with it...even if signed by the Pope...they cannot accept responsibility. If they could we would not all be here now.

Re helping parents...something I considered but difficult helping them when they are going to drag you down too. Its not your job, they are responsible for their feelings. They are not your children to look after, nor is your bro, they are all 'responsible' adults. Please do not put this burden on yourself of 'saving them'. As for your friends and dh...my dh supports me...my friends don't. They just don't get it. Either they (i suspect)are in denial and have issues themselves or they had good upbringings and just have never 'been' there.

Flllight - if I had the words I could have written that post re your mum (fri 25th jul)about my mum, you say it so clearly and concisely. I always felt a bit grubby after conversations with my mum if I confided...like you it would be used against me while she was being 'supportive'.

Your ds is who he is now. And away from your mum you will gradually become the mum you want to be. Remember habits are hard to break. I try to take something I do (ie snap at dd) and over a period of 2 weeks concentrate on NOT snapping at her...it takes a number of repetitions/time to get your brain used to something new. If you think you are rubbish (I'm sure your not like your mum ) you will remain as you are...you need to take a babystep at a time. Don't beat yourself up for not stopping the 'not okay' things you do immediately...your setting yourself up to fail. One thing at at time, for 2 weeks...think how different you will be at the end of 52 weeks. You can do this, replace negative messages your mum feeds you with help from here, which will be most helpful to your ds? Your mothers 'helpful' comments that bring you down to your knees? Or comments on here that validate, encourage and support you? This is only the beginning for you, just take things as they come and move on when you are ready. Your ds will grow up to have a mum who listens and validates his feelings...and that is priceless. Don't let your mum drag you down again.

Hi Shoptilidrop glad you got here!

Your not a whinebag! You are venting there is a difference! Its especially hard when in rl there is no one to confide in. Just don't bottle it up anymore, let it out on here (if you feel comfortable with that). I'm glad your dh is being supportive, that is very helpful. As others will have said your dads behaviour is not your fault (you may need to repeat that to yourself a few times...). He and his stepwife have the problems. How does the situation stand now?

Charlene1 - That was a bit of a cheek...'what have we done wrong'... . Well if they listened to you perhaps they would know. Have you got Toxic Parents by Susan Forward? Councellor (if you feel like extra support). Any reply yet?

Hi Electra - not late at all, just in time we're not going anywhere soon Pages who started the original thread was dx with BPD, she has moved on from it now, hope she comes back on soon. This website is very good. Your parents do sound very toxic. Liked your mothers typical toxic parent response ... Councelling would be good I suspect, BACP is what Attila usually recommends The emotional side that has an impact is proved by your bpd dx. How do you feel being dx with it? Some people find it limiting, others like knowing what is wrong so they can do something about it? Regarding relationships, have you heard that we are attracted to people who remind us of our family? We feel comfortable in the 'new' relationship so it feels right...except its not as its repeating the patterns of your childhood. I try to find people I feel slightly uncomfortable around now

Re your posts of 1st Aug - 'john says we were good parents' that's it...get Witness A lined up who was not a fly on the wall in my childhood...and the 'your killing your dad'...I was told my dad would have a heart attack (agian nothing to do with lack of exercise, wrong diet, drink) if you move home again'. Nice to be welcomed home again...so where would I go...nearest cardboard box?

Purpleone - how are you doing?

Hi Laweaselmys - We're both due on the same day fantastic!! And congratulations this will be my 2nd...already have dd of 2.4mths

Do you think your mum does not like being pushed out of the limelight? She sounds a bit dramaqueenish...

Now for me.....worked out last week because my EX friend re socks and her friend were so disaproving (in a silent giving 'looks' way) of my parenting...I felt like a crap parent. Been putting dd in front of telly since about mar/apr time because I could not be around her...thought and thought about this, tried to work out why...finally the light dawned...yes it was down to ex friends attitude...ie bad mum if no playdates for children every day and any one babysitting them ... so thought f*ck her last week and tv is only on when I cook now . So glad she is an EX FRIEND. Honestly...that is one person so what on earth do our mothers do to our heads?

I believe I now officially have the longest post ever...and possibly longest time...started typing at 1.30 ...I need to take my own advice

Bugger! Only that bit for 2.15 hours!!!!!!!!! I must have deleted alot..............

Can someone help me out of my chair now please?

"Itati - 5 years old and no stabilisers! Sounds a special moment Yep up north for my sins . ((((Itati)))) for the other day. Just some thoughts from when I saw my therapist...he said when I had problems with my dd (ie acting up, hitting me) its because I was not 'connecting' to her. I found it helped to keep making eye contact(very bad at this) and to realise I was not a bad mum. When I feel a bad mum I turn away from dd and she can tell just come through a long patch of this...had not even realised what had put the distance there. Things still are not 100% but better than they were.

The book describes general characteristics...and believe me you will find yourself nodding along to it...that your parent is actually written about in a book! lol not all people will fit into one 'grouping' though...often they will fit in several.

Thanks for the above Ally90. (Tis me, new name by orger of MamaG!)

DD is currently being mean to her brothers and no idea what to do. They want to help her tidy up, she doesn't want them too.

i really can't work her out at times. MIL says she is like I would have been if I had had a normal upbringing, in her opinion.

DD is very bright, stubborn, emotional, etc etc.

Do you think it is worth me getting the book as it is my MIL I have trouble with and she never talks about anything emotional at all.

order not orger!!!

Electra actually ignore the link I gave you...not helpful for you.

Itati - You could try Toxic In Laws by Susan Forward?

Is your dd older than your ds's?

Hi Ally
I hope you are feeling well.

Thanks for asking about mil. They came, were here, and left. Relief all around.
It didn't go so badly since they stayed in a hotel (4 nights courtesy of dh). One sister didn't come at first, drove the last day to turn around and leave the next day (remember 500+ mile drive!!)

They drove here on Saturday. Usually it is a good idea to leave early in the day...but they didn't leave until 12:15pm and didn't get here until after midnight. So we didn't see them Saturday . They slept in and we didn't see them until after noon on Sunday ...dh guessed that the hotel's free breakfast was over at 10 am and that would be the driver of the day's schedule. dh. It was simply impossible to schedule anything because someone of the party would have an issue creating delay after delay. We went to see a movie. Wanted to go to the early matinee but ended up at the late show-I just have to laugh-and buying popcorn was an issue, seats were an issue...

Later I was discussing the circumstances with dd1 (14yrs) and came to the idea of an analogy that they were an organism unto themselves-like a single cell organism that was pulling and pushing itself in many directions at once and thus couldn't go any where. And quite frankly I (we) don't want to be a part of that organism. So with that (new) perspective being ignored/left out really isn't so bad after all. Counselor offered that it is really a Neutral position-which isn't bad really; I know it could be a whole lot worse as my friends here have offered proof.

When ever I spoke, I was interrupted, or the subject was immediately changed. When one person was talking to me, another would talk to me on top of her-so who was I supposed to respond to/who was I going to be rude to?
I went over this with my counselor and she said that they were the ones without communication skills or social skills. That made me feel better.

My mil is getting on in years and I try not to have too much animosity towards her. She didn't say anything negative to me about the baby. She did go on and on about how pretty and good she is. At times she brings up things from the past that might embarrass me , but I just give a smirk, then ignore her and move away...so I'm just not going to participate or be baited .

I was generous and went to breakfast on their day of departure without dh (he went to work-presuming they would leave early since his sis had to be at work super early the next day). They "had" to eat at a particular restaurant so I went with all dear children. Dh did acknowledge that I didn't have to do that-and I think he was surprised that I did. It was dragging on so dear baby created the "time to leave" (11:30 am departure time for them-a wee bit of an improvement.)

It wasn't really that toxic to me this time because I have made that realisation (about me and them)and made the emotional disconnection from them (in terms of expectations if nothing else).
Got to go-Dear baby needs a hug and some crib time-tying to transition sleeping circumstances.

TMSB - glad it went so well...hope you felt okay after too...no hang over effect? Sometimes something hits me a day/week later. They do sound a bit bizarre. And rude to you . Strangly I do identify with the social skills...when mil comes round (less and less frequently) with 2 nieces and fil...often I have 4 conversations at the same time they all talk at the top of their voices over the top of one another...makes me go bog eyed trying to multitask 4 separate conversations and make sure dd is not ignored by them all. How does dd1 feel about them?

So I suppose that is the last time they will visit you then?...

Hello all..... Ally invited me to vent here. Perhaps it's more a cry for help.

I have a difficult relationship with my mother that got a lot worse when I had children 5 years ago. She is a VERY cold woman and she finds it hard to hug and I don't remember ANY warmth in my childhood. None. Not from either parent. (My father died 15 years ago). My Mum and I have had many issues over the years and when trying to deal with them head-on she clams up, can't bear physical contact with me and runs from the room. Nothing is ever dealt with or discussed. If I get worked up or passionate about something she leaves saying I am shouting at her and being mean to her.

I managed to establish a couple of years back after sharing a bottle or two of wine with my mother that she had a similar relationship with her own mother. She described her own mother (long dead) as a very cold woman and my Mum TRULY believes that she had given me and my siblings the childhood warmth that she felt she never had. No. History just repeated itself with us.

Sadly, I am not the mother to my own children that I want to be. I find it hard to hug them when they are naughty and need calming down. When I am upset and need comforting, my own husband can't come anywhere near me. I HATE a hug when I am upset. I love a hug when I am not upset. When the children upset or anger me, they get nothing from me. I just can't hug them.

How can I stop history once more repeating itself? I am terrified that my sons will feel that same way as I do about my Mum, about me, in 30 years.

Ally

My DD is my middle child.