"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

[oneplusone]

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

Ally

I love the 'Most Manipulative Mum' banner. Brilliant.

hi - I've been a lurker on this thread. Can I just say you are all a bunch of very inspirational women. My situation terrifies me but to see some of the steps you lot have taken I am in awe and it gives me hope for my future.

I started a thread a while ago about my mother and her calling me a failure and disappointment (which tbh wasn't really unexpected for me and I knew she thought it anyway) I was at a point where I could see no way out of the situation. Now I can see a way, not an easy one but a future where I could be free.

I brought controlling parents adn toxic parents (which arrived today and I have done a basic readthrough). They've made sense of a lot of stuff, but they are terrifying at the same time.

My mother is extremely controlling. And it's suffocating me adn destroying me. Dp won;t have anything to do with her as he thinks she is completely insane. I worry about her effect on my ds.

I am trying to get my thoughts together at mo, some days I feel angry and sad and others just incrediably guilty and like I am betraying her. I am also worried about my little sister. I pull away and get the backlash and I can deal (almost) with that but my sis also has to and I hate how sad and depressed and broken she is (sis is living at home at mo). I hate my actions, my attempts to free myself and have a life hurting sis and making her life more unbearable.

I also am finding myself angry at my dad for never stopping this and encouraging us to just give in and do what mum wants. Learning that rather than being on our side he is trying to make us do whatever she wants us to.

It's all rather up in the air at the mo. I'm getting flashbacks of things I have forgotten. I'm confused. And mostly I want my mum. The nice one. The one I never see. The one who will protect me and care for me and love me unconditionally. And coming to terms with that never happening is the hardest part. I want to make it all go away, but I can't continue the life I'm living.

And I'm terrified for the backlash on my sis.

sorry for sidetrack - I realise these threads refer to situations where a parent has been involved. Just wondered if there are others whose abuser was not a family member? TIA

Hi there Armadillo - I wanted to answer you because it was such an awfully sad post, such a difficult situation you are facing
I'm not very good at advice but I will listen, if it helps. All the women on this thread have given me brilliant advice, they really know their stuff.
xxx

Armadillo.

Your father is a bystander, you are absolutely right to be furious with him.

I understand the feeling that you want your mum. I have that too. You can get past that - it's just time that you need.

You are no more responsible for your sister than she is for you. You can be there for her if it all goes to hell, but you can't protect her from your mum. You have to protect yourself first.

I read your post about your mum and I have to say she sounds past redeeming. If I were you, I really would cut all contact with her. You will be ok without her, you must tell yourself this. You do not need her. The reason you think you do is that she has indoctrinated you with that idea since you were tiny. Most of all, you must not allow your son to be exposed to the way she treats you. He needs to respect his mum.

If you can't do this for yourself, do it for him. And tell yourself every day that is why you are doing it. Honestly, my mum is bad, but yours really takes the biscuit.

I really hope you manage to put a stop to this awful hold she insists on having over you. When you are doubting yourself, think about your friends - do they have relationships with their mothers like this? No, of course they don't, because it's not normal, it's not healthy and it's not right.

Good luck.

I still feel a desperate need to protect sis though. We've never had much of a relationship - my mum has made sure of that. But in the past few weeks my mum's behaviour has gone really downhill. She has become physically violent to my sis (at least once that I have witnessed). Mum has never ever been violent before. My dad was but mum only ever hit me once.

I am really worried about sis now, I feel I owe her the loyalty that I have never given her in the past and her mental state scares me. I can recognise it and I am worried about what she will do if I don't do something to get her out or at least make her feel she is not alone.

I have my dp and my ds - sis has nothing, not even a home away from my parents (she's recently returned home from a job abroad and is living with them).

Armadillo, I can see that you desperately want to make it all ok for your sister because you know how bad it feels to be in her place and you don't want her to go through that. How old is she? Is there no way she can get out of there? Could she stay with a friend or with you for a while? It isn't your fault she is going through it though. If you just let her know she can talk to you and that you understand that will be a really big thing you can do for her.

I really feel for you when you say you want your Mum - the nice one who treats you properly. What you are feeling is loss. It seems unlikely from what you've said that you will ever have the mother you want. I know that it is really hard to accept. I don't know how to either. I lost my birthmother when she gave me away for adoption. I had a new adoptive mother and father but they were incapable of the emotional side of being parents. I feel like I am still looking for the love and the bond with a parent that I never felt. I can't see how I will ever find it though.

I suppose we just have to actively notice and appreciate the bits of love and attachment we feel with other people in our lives and try to focus on what we do have rather than what we don't and didn't. Trying to get it from parents like ours and holding onto a hope that they could change is only like continually bashing your head against a brick wall though. You just get disappointed and sad over and over again. It is easier when you completely give up on getting what you need from them and accept that they are too emotionally ill to do it. You need to look elsewhere for what you need.

Armadillo, how old is your sister? Is she living with your parents? The best you can do is let her know that you understand and that you will be there for her. It actually won't help her if you get too involved because in the end, she also needs to make the break herself. (This stands unless she is a minor of course.)

In the meantime, have you had the chance to work all of this through with someone outside - ie a counsellor? It could really help you to do this.

This is not your fault. It is totally inappropriate for your mother to want to control your life to the extent that she does. You must break free of her, if only for the sake of your son. He needs you the most. More, I'm sorry to say it, than your sister.

thanks for these. My sis is 23 but still very much a child, as am I in that we are not used to dealing with stuff on our own. Though she has always had more independance than I.

She is going away for a week, I hope she gets a break. I will speak to her when she gets back. She's always been feisty and stubborn but she seems to have lost that and I am terrified that she will turn into me. Though this is new territory for me. A relationship of sorts with her would be a new thign. Up till now she has only ever been my competitor really. There have been flashes, but I appreciate the having to find her own way. This is all new in a way I don't really understand what I am feeling or why I feel like I need to rescue her. That sounds callous, but it's not meant to be. Just why now? Why never before? Is it just for selfish reasons? To have a family member who agrees with my experiences? WHat if she rejects it all - rejects me? Could I deal with that?

Everything is confusing at mo. Old patterns and thoughts and beliefs are being overturned but with nothing to replace htem. I feel like i am starting from scratch. What is there for me to rely on? I have dp and ds - will that be enough?

My new dr said he would get me referral to psychologist, though I am still waiting to hear. May contact them on Mon to see how long it will be. Am working through some stuff on my own for a bit. Is doing good. And talking. I'm not a great talker as a rule. I find it difficult to talk at all if I am stressed, but I seem to have opened the floodgates. Talking to my friends and my dp is helping just get it into the open.

I can see a way out now. A long, difficult and painful one, but it is better than nothing,

Armadillo- I dont have time to write I long post atm but I wanted to post this link here for you.

I think it may help. Let me know your thoughts afterwards. It certainly helped me. And my situation is very close to yours.

((((armadillo)))

You've had some good advice here and can I just echo the part which says your sister is an adult and has to find her own way out of the triangle.

paperchain- Currently there is one that I know of (but this is as well as/tied up with issues with family member).
In the main it is family abuse.

Hope Ive helped clarify for you.

Paperchain, you could start a new support thread for survivors of abuse maybe? Then it wouldn't be specifically about abuse in the family. I would love to come to your new thread and add my verbal diarrohea comments/support. Some of my problems were from people outside the family, but most from inside. People from this thread would 'qualify' to join your new thread and give you support + people who have been abused by people outside the family but not inside the family as well. I think it would be useful. I hope you do it because it sounds like you feel a need to 'talk'.

thanks - I will

I can i join you, ally pointed me in this direction from a thread i made.
I dont know where to being to be honest. Im just going to type and hope it makes some sort of sense.
Mother and father very messy violent divorce when i was 18. i chose to live with my dad. Mother admitts she basically had a mental breakdown for a few years and was horrible. After afew yesrs i cut her out of my life as i just couldnt take it any more. Anyway, me and my sister moved wiht my dad. I was 18 my sister 16. First day in new house and he introduces us to his new girlfriend, First night in house and he stays at hers. For 2 years we were basically left to our own divices, but things were not that bad, just spiney comments from her. Anyway. We all move into a new house together with her 2 children. Moving day comes, we are left at our dads house, phone is cut off and its 4pm and we dont know whats going on. ( before mobile ohones!) we walked 2 miles to her house to be tole by her that there was no room for us and have the door shut in our faces. That pretty much sets the tone for the next 10 years. I have been snipped at judged, bullied, ignored. Once i was not spoken to for 3 months, and was only allowed in the bedroom, bathroom and hallway. I had to live out of baked beans from a tin. I always appoligised to keep the peace. On the day i announced i was getting married she started being nice to me. DH is forces so she knew i would move away. Next 7 or so years are not so bad as im away. Just sniping and juding, but not too bad. Anyway. I move back to my hometown 2 years ago. Everything basically goes into meltdown. Ive been blamed for things i havent done accused to things, ignored in the street etc.. ive not been allowed in my dads house for 2 years, im not even allowed to phone them on the landline. Ive been left out of family gatherings. Ive also a sister and a brother, who decided they wanted nothing to do with my dad about 2 years ago. I also got the blame for this. Throughout, my dad has said its not me, its her, shes pathetic, he is sorting it, they have rows, he is leaving her... etc.... i hear this everyweek for 18 months. Today i hear that i should just accept that im not part of the family. I just cannot believe this. My dad has let me down so badly. i am so hurt. He says he understands and he knows hes been a terrible dad and that he wants to make it up to us all. but then does nothing and makes no effort at all. A few weeks ago he told me he was leaving her. I got all brothers and sisters together for a meal with him, as a show of support, then a week later he tells me he isnt. I stuck my neck out and have been lied to. He said its my fault im stressed about it, as i wont talk about anything else to him apart from the situation. But i cant, he doesnt understand how hurt i am, how i cant take any more of this and how sick to the stomach i am. My sister below me says im out of order and that i should just take it and its not his fault as hes old and too soft. She then blames my mum for it all. Cant really see whats that to do with it, but anyway.
Ive started to rebuild my relationship with my mother, its taken abnout a year, but its going well. i will never forget how she was, but have just given her a chance to prove she has changed. She is there for me far more than my dad. and of course my new realtioship with her has been blamed on this as well. My head hurst and my eyes sting from so much crying. I dont know what my family want from me.

shoptilidrop- I didnt want to leave your post unanswered.
You sound so sad about the current situation and I dont blame you.
First of all you must realise 'it really is them' not you that has caused this situation.

I know only too well how lack of validation of our feelings by our mothers and fathers leads us to self blame and doubt. But you can rest assured it is 'their' view that is skewed and 'you' that is seeing things as they really are.

You are right to feel angry at your father he has been letting you down badly for many many years. Building up your expectations that he will finally step up to the plate and put his daughters needs first, just as a father should. Then each time he lets you down again with a crash. Its an emotional rollercoaster isnt it?

The thing is, you cant fix your father. He is an adult and responsible for himself, meanwhile you will be focussing so much of your emotional energy on trying to fix the unfixable that it probably leaves little energy for yourself or your family.

Do you have children yourself? What are the effects of all this on your relationship with DH/DC's?

Also would like to hear more about your mother? What was it like when you all lived together?

You will get support and validation here ((((((shoptilidrop))))))), so keep writing.
And have a look at this it may also help to identify yourself and family members and each of your roles. here

thank you for replying, will check that link in a bit.

I have one dd, who is 2 and half. This makes it worse, as i cant belive they can treat me like this, but it hurts more that they do it to her too. Shes just perfect and i love her so much, abd then i think that im his daugher and he should love me as much, and clearly he doesnt. My husband is good, we have had our ups and downs, but he is suppotive and thinks my dads side of the family are terribe and i should cut them all off. I have noticed however, in these last few weeks that ive been really stressed, that ive projected some of it onto dh and keep telling him i feel unloved and not good enough, then he tries to hug me or pay me attention, and i push him away. But we both recognise why i am doing it, so we are both trying to be patient with each other.

My mother is quite ( cant think of one word here so ill list a few) bossy, thinks she alwasy right, likes to be the best, competative, controlling, but is thoughtful, kind, considerate. She was a good mum when we were little, although quite violent, also we were never good enough. Both her parents died and she re evaluated her life and wasnt happy, she wanted to divorce my dad, it was all horrible, lots of violence, from her to him and us. Court battles etc.... I had the strong enough will to say i didnt want to live with her. Our relationship was bad for a few years before i relaised i couldnt take any more and cut her off, altough i did always send bitrhtday and xmas cards. Once i had my dd and moved back to the uk, she made contact through my younger sister. We started off with baby steps and it has grown from there. She admitts she was not a nice person for a long while, i do trust her now, and have even left my dd with her to babysit.

Emotional rollercoaster is the exact phrase, i feel exhuasted, mentally and physically. I do not have anything more to give. I dont understand how he can say i have to accept im not part of the family,.. then in the next sentance say he wants to be a dad. How can he be??? Ive done everything he has asked of me, but the goal posts keep changing, then he gets angry and blames me when i get upset. I also want to know what i have done to my step mother to make her hate me so much. I feel like i am never good enough for anyone. Honestly i am sorry to sound like a whine bag. People in rl who know nothing of this would be shocked to hear me say things like that. I come across as super confident, bubbly and happy go luckly. Shame its not really like that.
Thank you for your reply. it means a lot to be able to get this off my chest.

just tried the link... its a protected blog????????

ShopTilIDrop, I'm glad you found this thread as the people on here really try to help and have lots of insight.

You sound so hurt by your family and you so want them but they are so wrapped up in their own problems that they don't seem to have much of themselves left for you. I can't see that any of it is your fault, but it seems like they are taking their frustrations out on you.

I feel most angry with your father's wife. Trying to cut you out so she can get all of his attention because she is that insecure she felt threatened by a child - pathetic! She could be so thoughtless that she could take a father away from his daughter and cause great hurt just because of a bit of insecurity when she was supposed to be the adult. Don't agonise over why she did it, she is not important, someone who can do this is worth nothing. Just know that she is sick.

Your father sounds like he is scared to be on his own so hangs onto her by doing what she wants. This is SO weak. What DolliusBirdius would call a 'Bystander' I think. It is selfish. Hurting his child to put his needs first. Actually, maybe I should be most angry with him! I felt my parents and birthmother/birthfather put their needs before mine and let me get hurt so I can identify with this in some way. It makes you feel unimportant, overlooked and rejected.

Your mother sounds like she had a mental illness that caused her to behave the way she did. She sounds like she has tried to make some amends. I feel less angry about her, but how she treated you was still very wrong.

It would be easy for me to tell you to say "fuck them, they are no good at being parents so go and get what you need elsewhere and it's their loss" (this is more or less what I have done with mine). But I can see that you still really want them in your life. Have I got this right? I just wouldn't know what to suggest though to make your relationship with them better. If they don't sort out their own problems do you think they can change towards you? Hopefully some wiser MNers will have more ideas than me.

Reading your posts makes me want to shout at them "What about your daughter? she is here, look and she has feelings too and she wants her parents. Forget all your shit for one moment and do your job and look after her!"

Can anyone add any comments to PaperChain's new thread for abuse survivors here?

My mum phoned tonight and I feel like crying and I don't know why. I just want them all to leave me alone and to be able to forget about them and how much they hurt me.

She wanted me to tell her what they could buy DH for his birthday, whether I've bought myself something for my last birthday that they can pay for (I said I was going to do this but hadn't bought anything yet) and whether we would like to visit them one weekend.

So that is all nice things and how can I be horrible to her or think horrible things when she phoned up to be nice? But I don't feel nice. I don't want them. It's too late. I wanted them for years and wanted them to make more effort and show some feeling and there was only so much I could take before the relationship was totally broken as far as I'm concerned. I just can't do it now and don't want to. Am I a bitch?

She wanted us to come this weekend and it is free in our calendar but I said we couldn't. Tonight I have written a short note with the info she asked for (I didn't have any answers for her when she was on the phone) and have said we could visit for a half day on a Sunday a few weeks from now - so I am keeping to the boundaries I was going on about in a previous post.

But I wish I didn't have to fucking go at all! I feel I choke on my words just forcing myself to talk to her on the phone. How I feel tonight is making me think I should have decided not to see them at all. I can't believe I feel so extreme when she was being nice!

I need a hug.

And a tissue.

Hi itati,

((((((((((((((itati))))))))))))))))) with some virtual tissues as well.

Saw your other thread about your crapola inlaws by the way. Would recommend you read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward.

yours also with towels

Attila x

towels?

DS1 just thrown marbles at me and called me stupid.

Acting normal, thank you for your messgae. Im sorry you are having problems with your mum. But i can totally understand, you know that the niceness is just false and it makes you so angry inside.
I do think you are right, i am very angry and very hurt. I do still want them in my life, but i cant continue to be hurt in this way. For a long time i have known its my stepmothers insecurities, She has even said in the past that she feels threatned by me.but knowing that doesnt seem to help, and knowing that my father just lets her get away with it, and lets in continue, when he knows how much pain it causes me, just cuts me up inside. I want him to stand up for me, and to be a proper dad, but sadly i can see that is never going to happen. Its hard not to agonise at the pain she has inflicted on me, its just so wrong, yet noone seems to care, its just accepted that thats how it is.
Yes my mother also behaved terribly towards me, and trust me i have not gone into any detail, but it was quite a horiffic few years. I have not forgiven her nor forgotten but have moved on, and have based the new realtionship on the people we are now. She does ocassionally paint herself as not having been in the wrong, but i do correct her and will not let her cross any boundaries i have set. Saying that she has been more supportive and loving as a parent, than my father and step mother have been in 10 years.

Itati, i dont know your story, but are you ok??