Is he the problem and if he is, what can I do to help our relationship

[uptomuch]

TLDR - DH an absolute arse when we argue but perfect in all other areas. Should I put up with it?

We've been together for three years. Had a bumpy start but got ourselves sorted. Looking back, I think the foundations were laid then around the way we argue and now we can't undo it and I'm worried that I am staying in a really unhealthy relationship.

About 80% of the time, we have a great relationship. We are supportive of one another, respectful, good partnership and get on well.
However, if we have an argument, it goes down hill, and fast!
Today was the latest example. Did all the back to school stuff, was quite a nice day (no kids with us) and popped by McDonalds drive thru on the way home. Driving out, DH put his foot on the brake and a load of chips ended up on the floor. I said “FFS” (loudly) as was annoyed by the mess and made an ill judged poke at him for braking when he did (obviously braking can’t be helped). Really wasn’t anything major and was simply a reaction to a situation but still, wasn’t his fault and so not fair of me. Anyway, I asked him to pull over so I could clean up and he said no. He said he was driving and he would make the decisions and that it was my fault for “throwing” the chips on the floor. This then escalated beyond all recognition with him shouting that he was right about everything (yes - literally). Told me that I had “started it” by shouting at him and told me it was completely my fault and I should apologise and that he would keep shouting until I did.

So in and of itself, that’s a stupid argument where had I just said sorry and cleared up it would have gone away. Problem is, he gets so verbally aggressive and so shouty and dominant and entirely unwilling to accept that there would be another way of looking at things and it’s all so QUICK that I start to cry. And then I get told things like I’m pathetic and that I need to stop “whimpering”. And I KNOW this isn’t ok.
The only reason I am crying is because I have had my voice taken from me and I am now completely overwhelmed.
I genuinely don’t know if I need to change some of my behaviour because I’m
nitpicking or if he is the one who is unreasonable.
All our arguments are like this. They start off over tiny, inconsequential things, escalate to boiling point very quickly and then I get dominated and cry. BUT (importantly) most of the arguments are started by me.

I suppose I need to know if there is anything I can change and that it is reasonable for me to change or if it is just a bad idea to be in this relationship.

And to the LTB tribe - I hear you. But what I am genuinely interested in is whether there is an alternative way for me to manage these outbursts to support some more continuous harmony!

Nope, no one can ‘manage’ a verbal abuser. He chooses to intimidate you, he enjoys it. You make your kids be around this man?

It doesn't sound like a very happy relationship or good dynamic between you. You say you're starting arguments but he also sounds explosive and intimidating. It really sounds very unpleasant.

In my experience, some people bring out the worst in each other and possibly this is the case here. But the way that he responded by shouting whilst driving sounds really scary.

You'd both want to change for there to be any hope of changing your relationship, it can't just be one of you.

Why do you think you should be 'handling his outbursts'? He's an adult. He's responsible for his own behaviour. If he has outbursts and you don't like it, you don't 'handle' it; you choose to be elsewhere.

*managing, not handling, sorry. But the point's the same.

In fact the whole title of your thread is twisted, responsibility-wise. If he's the problem, he's the one who should be sorting it out, not you.

Come on @uptomuch - you think he does this at work and gets away with it. His family. His friends… what if the next victim of his angry tirade is your children?

if he can’t manage a disagreement or to express himself without this bullying behaviour than he is the problem.

Yep - you're saying pretty much what I would be saying to someone explaining what I have.

I think I'm trying to explore every permutation before I bite the bullet. I know he feels that I don't take responsibility for my actions. He is possibly right - but the reason I don't always step up and apologies/own it will be because I have had such a tirade that I think what he has done is much worse and I don't want to minimise that by making my own apology.

Also - they're my step children, so not exposing my own kids to him

@Watchkeys the problem is, I'm not sure if I'm being controlling and subsequently he has found that the only way of dealing with this is to dominate in return. He feels criticised by me and I can sometimes see why

You do realise the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none don't you?.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?

What do you mean exactly by bumpy start?. What happened at that time?.

His sharp braking caused you to lose grip of the french fries so he caused all this. If he had been driving slower he may not have had to brake so sharply in the first place. And I note without surprise he's stated to you that he is right about absolutely everything, the big man idiot that he is.

And indeed, why should you be the one to manage such outbursts?. He's responsible entirely for his shouting (likely learnt from one or other of his parents) and actions. Walking on eggshells is no life for you and this man remains volatile. This man needs to control himself and indeed he can; its for you that this abuse (and it is abuse) is directed at. Your relationship with him is over due to this and he has not, and will not, change. You have a choice re him and your children do not.

Crikey, I had a light bulb moment reading your post - after 15 years..this is exactly my husband..exactly..it gets to the point you either walk on egg shells and watch what you say or do or you leave. I have done the former but I think I was probably wrong. Things won't change, he will find more and more to be upset about I can tell you.
Last night I left a light on in the kitchen. He asked me if I was in the kitchen I said no, I was sat next to him on the sofa and laughed...off he went telling me he didn't need a smart mouthed answer and berated me for another 5 minutes pretty nastily. All remarks about anything end like this. If I mention anything slightly detrimental to him it's like an explosion in his head. He is vilely abusive. I hate him during these outbursts but sadly we're both too old to do anything about our situation.

You're never too old to start thinking about how to leave your abusive marriage. In a few short years you could end up becoming his full time carer; is that what you want for yourself?. Its only too late when you are yourself dead!. Do not put yourself through another 15 years of all this shit from him.

This makes it a lot easier

The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none. He hasn't learned to have an adult conversation in order to resolve differences. Or he just wants to shut you down.

Either way, it really doesn't sound like a way you would want to live.

What do you think his children think of him?. Do they feel anxious to people please and or be otherwise subservient to him?.

None of that is ok and you know it’s not - he’s unkind to you and tries to make you feel small

I know I sound like your typical abused wife in saying this, but I do genuinely wonder if there are parts that I have played to bring this situation to where it is now.
I am critical of him, i have strong opinions about how he parents and how he manages his relationship with his ex wife and find it difficult to accept that's it's not really anything to do with me. And I don't let things go.
I am well versed in all kinds of domestic abuse (work related) so I am fully cognisant of the fact that his behaviour is not ok. And that the only acceptable level of abuse is zero. But I'm living in the real world - he is human too. He has faults (major ones) and he is also, much more good than he is bad. I wonder if we are bringing the worst out in each other and that if I relaxed my approach to things that this might help. Yes - he is an adult who is responsible for his own reactions. But he does not have the skills to do this. I think I do have the skills to help him do this, but I need to do it from an unusual perspective. How do I do this?

You can’t change someone who’s abusive. You deserve to be with someone who isn’t verbally abusive to you. Please don’t stay. It’s not up to you to ‘manage’ this.

You don't sound compatible. In fact you sound like a really bad combination.

If I was driving and a passenger swore like you did because I had to brake suddenly, I'd be pretty pissed off with you. But it wouldn't have escalated into some huge fight. Because I'm not an arsehole.

@HundredMilesAnHour should I assume that every person who has the audacity to swear around you means they piss you off? It was a reaction to chips on the floor, not him braking. As was explicit in the post.

Women are not rehab centres to badly raised men. He thinks he’s right all the bloody time and you are too close to be of any real use to him, not that he wants your help or support anyway.

He enjoys bringing you to tears, so he won’t welcome help to stop his tantrums.

It doesn't matter. Your boat has an un-mendable hole. You can spend your life trying to work out who made the hole, or you can get out of the boat.

Stop hunting for fault in yourself. We all have faults, and we can all bring out the worst in someone. The trick is to stay away from people who respond badly to you. The trick to a miserable life is to apportion blame and correction to problems you can walk away from.

If you're controlling, the healthy way for him to deal with it would be to talk to you about it, or walk away, so even if this is originally down to you, he's still demonstrating that he isn't capable of having a healthy relationship.

To the women who have been in similar situations, what did you do?

You also wrote "still, wasn’t his fault and so not fair of me" so hardly explicit as you imply here that it came across as it was his fault. But with your reaction to my post and your previous posts, you do come across as possibly having a bit of an attitude problem. Given that he seems to be very easily provoked, I really do think you're a terrible combination. You both think you're right and you're both very critical, that's not good at all. Then he escalates and you cry. Why are you putting yourself through this??? Find a man who you're compatible with. It isn't this one.

But is it abusive @HundredMilesAnHour ??

That's the bit that I need to know? Is it a shitty combination where we both need to do some work, or, is he abusive and never going to change?

I think you're right, we are both critical and both think we're right all the time. And that makes me think that there is room for change.

We all know that there are a hardened tribe of mumsnetters who will write any misdemeanour off as LTB but it is SO unrealistic and so unhelpful. In many of the cases, all that LTB serves to achieve is to make the poster feel even more useless because that is not something they're going to do. Probably because deep down, they know it's not the best thing TO do.