Could I have been a better wife?

[Cheweeze]

Reflecting on my marriage after a trial separation from my husband for 6 months. I have blamed him for the majority of our issues as relationship counsellors have all said that he doesn't listen and won't change anything about himself to prioritise our marriage.

We recently started seeing each other again privately with the view to us getting back together eventually. Last week, during an evening together, I made him some toast in the evening after he said he was hungry. I didn't make myself anything and the children were in bed.

He commented that it meant so much to him that I'd made something "just for" him. I replied that I cooked dinner for him most evenings when we were together and he said "that wasn't the same as it was always for all of us."

On reflection, I did very little "just for" him during our marriage, post children. I felt I was always doing everything for the benefit of everyone. I've since asked a couple of my friends what they do "just for" their husbands and have been surprised to learn that they often pack their work bags, make their sandwiches for work, cook them special breakfasts "just for" them. My husband did do the odd thing "just for" me I think although can't remember specifics.

I have not done any of this post kids. I only made him a cup of tea if I was making one for myself, only ever cooked him a meal if I was eating too. I think I probably felt too resentful to give him any special treatment as I always felt emotionally neglected. I would always try to buy him special gifts for christmas and birthdays but he never seemed too interested and I felt my efforts went unappreciated.

I'm a bit surprised that he appreciates things I do when they are "only" for him.

I'd love to hear other people's take on this?

I agree with you except I would not ask the question directly to him. Men have a different emotional makeup than women and generally don't like to be asked or told directly to do things by women. It's just how they are wired.

Instead, it's better if she approaches this topic with indirectness i.e. do nice small gestures like the toast but don't draw attention to the gestures or talk about them - just watch his reaction to know if it is a good thing. If he is pleased, she will know by how he reacts.

Focus on pleasing him in these small ways on a regular basis (but not overkill). Don't ask him to please you in specific ways- instead let him become motivated to figure out, on his own, how to please you. When he does something to please you, let him know. Keep it all very low key!

The above is all very counterintuitive but will bring a harmony beyond belief into the relationship.

You can't pour from an empty cup.

My feelings on this are entirely dependent on whether he did his fair share of the drudge work in your marriage to enable you to have some of yourself left over to share with him.

Doing "nice" things for a partner who pulls their weight and thereby allows you sufficient mental space for yourself = a pleasure.

Doing "nice" things for a partner who leaves you with all the shit to do = one chore too many.

I don't live with my dp; we go to one another's homes. Although we both feel relaxed and at home, it still means that one of us is more in the position of "host", and so cooks, makes drinks etc., while the other is the "guest". That's quite nice. It's something I'd like to try to preserve.
Before him, I was with my exh for 20 years. The change to the new relationship made me notice other little things that had vanished over time in my marriagee, and that I'd like to put more effort into, now - e.g. small signs of affection like holding hands, touching his knee.
These are all things that I've noticed myself, not things anyone has mentioned to me and not things that have been presented as my specific failure.
He didn't present it as "we have stopped doing little things over time" or "we need to go back to the beginnings", is that right?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I've read some ridiculous comments on this site, but this one takes the biscuit. "let him be motivated to figure out, on his own, ho two please you." Have you bothered to read the OP? The whole reason that their relationship broke down was his unwillingness to DO anything for her or to change in any way.

OP - it's okay for him to want your attention and care. But it should be two way. And it doesn't sound like this is.

You're reacting without seeing what I actually said.

Of course it should be two way!

To this end I have described a new approach that will allow her to achieve the objective of BOTH of them getting what they need. Men's brains are wired differently from women's (not all, but most). Women rail against this reality - but it doesn't change the fact. If OP does what she did in the past, she will get the same results.

She is focused on having a new and different future where she and her husband are BOTH feeling loved and appreciated. I contend that they way to achieve this is to use an indirect approach, and that it will work really well for both of them. If it doesn't work (unlikely) - she can try something else. And of course, she is free to ignore everything I say.

Well then I’m a terrible wife. My adult DH is perfectly capable of packin his bag etc! Yes I’d make us packed lunches if I was doing mine anyway, but if he was hungry on the evening he could make himself something. I find his attitude very old fashioned.

To this end I have described a new approach that will allow her to achieve the objective of BOTH of them getting what they need. Men's brains are wired differently from women's (not all, but most). Women rail against this reality - but it doesn't change the fact. If OP does what she did in the past, she will get the same results.

Men have been socialised to be lazy. And in the case of a man who has already proven to be lazy and uninterested in being supportive of his wife, her going quiet and attempting to "hint" at what she would like is 100% not going to work.

You only have to spend 5 minutes on here to read thread after thread of women who have tried to "show" their husband's what they want/need only to have it completely ignored. This advice, in particular, Focus on pleasing him in these small ways on a regular basis (but not overkill). Don't ask him to please you in specific ways- instead let him become motivated to figure out, on his own, how to please you. When he does something to please you, let him know. Keep it all very low key! is really complete bollocks in the situation OP describes and frankly, in many others.

Have you and DH done the Love languages quiz? It can be quite helpful to find out what is important to your both. Eg my DH is physical touch and words of affirmation.
It’s worth looking at. Then also being kind to one another in small ways also helps. Maybe that was part of the appeal of you making him the toast. It was a small act of kindness.

It sounds like you have been socialised to be a "know it all."

I hope when OP reads my comments she will judge for herself whether she wants to try the method I describe. Perhaps something I said will resonate with her, perhaps not. But if her answer is "yes," does she need to ask your permission? 🤔

Love Languages is a great method to study.

No, maybe it will resonate. But I'm allowed my opinion and I think your advice is completely ridiculous and just a few steps up from ensuring he has a martini ready and waiting when he comes home and warm slippers for his feet.

I find it especially amusing that your view on how men's brains are "wired differently" is so different to most people who have the same "wired differently" as an excuse. Most people who say that are also the ones who say you have to spell out in words of one syllable what your man can do for you because mens brains are wired not to think about this stuff (like cleaning, or cooking, or childcare). But whatever.

I think it's good to try and do nice little things for each other but it can certainly be hard when you're the main carer for the kids or your other half isn't doing their fair share. And doing your fair share is way more important imo.

I also feel like mums who do most of the childcare struggling to do these things is the equivalent of men who work in trades like building/plumbing etc never getting round to doing that stuff in their own home. When you spend the majority of your time carrying out a particular role then you are bound to need a break from it.

One of the great things about MN is that OP can weigh all the pros and cons of the different ideas, even the counterintuitive ones like mine.

Wishing her all the best!

You've articulated why it's so easy in a marriage to take your eye off the ball.

Being more mindful of the small things requires discipline, but the rewards are immense.

We are living in a time period where women have the financial independence to support themselves, moral and religious taboos have broken down and there are no social or reputations obstacles to divorce.

At the same time we have centred child raising, while simultaneously cutting couples off from wider family support networks.

The only reason for couples to stay together is if they like each other enough to want to. But all our available emotional energy is directed towards our children. We often expect our spouses to just get on with it, and not have any emotional needs. And we’re all permanently exhausted.

That’s a long way of saying that I really do think spouses need to connect and support and nurture each other, if they want to stay married (but equally there are other life options if you don’t that may be preferable).

One thing dh and I do is swop jobs in the mornings - he empties the dishwasher to give me a head start and I make his lunch. He makes my coffee and I pour his cereal. It would be more sensible to do our own things but it gets the day off to a nice start. I make him coffee if he’s working from home. He brings me tea in the evening even though he’s not having any himself. The actual labour is the same but the emotional connection is massive.

Love Languages are bollocks.
Yes, it was nice to give people a structured way of thinking about how humans convey consideration & care to one another.
But look at any emotionally balanced, happy relationship and you'll see all the participants using all five 'languages'. You'll also see them being free to ask for what they need, mostly getting it, and not being punished if their request can't be met.

People who don't join in this constant exchange of 'strokes' are users & takers, unless they're exempt for some reason that is clearly understood.

I suggest you re-read the first paragraph of your OP @Cheweeze

Relationship counsellors (so more than one) have ALL said that he wont listen or change anything about himself to repair things. So why are you trying to get back together?

You will just be signing up for more of the same but with the added little punishments of him insisting that you need to do more for him to make him happy. He has been called out by several professionals as refusing to accept any responsibility for what has happened so I really am at a loss as to why you are attempting to reconcile when literally nothing will change for the better.

Just wondering......is he ever wrong about anything? Does he ever admit to making a mistake or is it always someone/something elses fault when things dont work out?

I'd not be impressed by that comment. It sounds like he is discounting everything you did for the family and only giving credit for things done for him that exclude your dcs.

I had an ex (note the ex) who always made me feel guilty for the same. I would spend ages choosing lovely Xmas & birthday presents but he always found a way to subtlety criticise them. They were never good enough.

He used to push all the time for things that were solely for him, when I always tried to include him and my ds. Towards the end (when I was suffering BC but not diagnosed yet, and was exhausted), I'd expend all my energy on the basics - making supper etc, and then fall asleep on the sofa. The level of criticism escalated and I couldn't cope so ended it.
Later diagnosis, all became clear, and now sorted, but I've never wanted him back.

I'd steer clear. Selfish men are not a good addition to your life.

I don’t get why everyone is fixated on the examples OP provided like making work lunch. The idea is those are small, unnecessary gestures that some women do for their partners which make them feel appreciated or loved. I like when my partner does unexpected, unnecessary things for me just because they make me happy, and I try do the same for him. Doesn’t make either of us doormats or abusive. It’s not rocket science FGS.

Life management is hard work. Earning money, running the home, caring for children... it never stops. These tasks should be divided fairly in whatever way suits the couple. But there also needs to be time and energy put into the relationship that's at the heart of the family. We all need to feel seen and valued and loved as an individual, not just as parent, breadwinner, cook, cleaner, whatever.

If he’s not going to change or admit he’s wrong then why are you getting back together anyway? It sounds like he’s trying to blame you for the marriage not working rather than look at his own actions or how he contributed to the issues you have

Sometimes I feel as though no one ever does anything special just for me and I am doing everything for everyone else. It’s hard to keep a good relationship when life is busy for everyone when they have kids. It’s overwhelming and suffocating at times.
Do you honestly look at him and think my life is better with him in it? If so maybe some couples therapy would help, if not that’s ok too.

Omg what!?
She must also warm his slippers and ensure she looks fresh and pleasing when he returns from work?
It's not 1950!
WTAF have I just read 😂

Sounds like he's just another man who wants a bangmaid. Don't waste any more of your life on the selfish prick, OP.

Still trying to get over packing a grown man’s work bag, to be honest. Who does that? I haven’t even done that for my kids since they were about 8 years old. I hate the way we infantilise men - they are capable of so much more than we give them credit for.