DH being horrible to DS or have I lost perspective?

[LostNorthener]

DS is nearly 5. He's on waiting lists for ASD and ADHD due to some pretty challenging stuff v early on - verbal delay, can't follow any sort of instruction, can be very aggressive, has tics. Nursery recommended the referrals. He's down brilliantly at nursery and almost all aggression and meltdowns had disappeared or at least really reduced. He loved the routine and I've made big progress at home too. Nursery and the local authority confident that he's ready to start mainstream school in Sep.

Since nursery is closed now for summer his behaviour has plummeted. We are back to throwing things, slamming doors, lots of tears and hurting himself over tiny things. In 10 days we have gone back 6 months!

DH is in-between jobs and taking a break over summer so has DS full time and it's not going well.

This morning DS threw a glass on the floor because he couldn't find a toy.

DH dragged him into the sitting room. Started shouting. DS then went crazy throwing books off shelves, throwing shoes, a vase got smashed. I was just busy keeping younger DD safe. DH shouting top of his voice "you stop it" physically retaining him. DS kept saying "I want mummy for cuddle" and DH shouting "I bet you want your mother but you've got me and you're not getting a bike, or seeing your mum, until you pick up all this stuff and behave yourself" DH was very loud in the shouting even when DS was just sitting still crying. The throwing lasted 5 mins but the shouting lasted much longer. At one point DS was shouting "leave me alone" and DH was shouting "you leave me alone" at each other over and over.

I ended up going in the room and DH shouted at me "DS is not allowed to see you until he's picked up everything he is a horrible boy" DS crying on sofa. I say "how about we pick things up together DS" DS nods and we tidy-up the whole house - DS doing it with me helping him. DH storms out saying I'm so fuxking soft etc

DH has now left house

Do I sound too soft?
Or do people think actually I should have stepped in much sooner
If me and DH split (we have some other issues) wouldn't I be causing more harm to my son as God knows what DH would do if i wasn't there
DS always wants a cuddle after a meltdown- DH says I'm rewarding him. I think I'm comforting him
Does my DH sound horrible or just he has his boundaries as he would say.

I don't know if this is parenting or AIBU or relationships but putting here. Any thoughts welcome as I feel totally lost here.

Shouting and losing your temper at a child having a meltdown is never, ever going to make the situation better, even without ASD. I never understand parents who think discipline is SHOUTING and scaring their already scared children. You did the right thing, OP. Your DH needs to learn how to model controlling emotions.

You are not soft and it sounds like you know how to handle things. It sounds like your ds is triggering your dh (not defending your dh here btw). It can be hard if you're together all the time. Some councils offer funding for parent/carers called short breaks and in my county we can use it to access activities, holiday clubs etc. i would look into this so your dh can have a break. He also needs to learn how to handle ds when he's struggling, as your dh's behaviour is making it worse and isn't nice. Maybe you could suggest you do a course together? I'm trying to think who might offer one on meltdowns so he can get to grips what's happening for your ds and see that he's not naughty and how to support him. Sunshine support do them but you have to pay. Have a search around, many are online.

If it's for NT kids the strategies will still not be suitable for a neurodivergent child.

I’m not silencing those speaking from a ASD/Autism position,

but

I actually think the scenario described is also wrong/threatening for an NT child?

My DC has been challenging at times, we are on a waiting list for assessment but DC traits have lessened with age.

We (DH & I) are only human, but matching the child’s energy just makes things worse IME.

I do think DH sounds like he has difficulties too mind you.

You’re too soft and your DH is too harsh.

Your son does need strict rules and boundaries which he’s not getting from you at home but he’s also still very young and is going to struggle to regulate his emotions.

The fact that you and DH have completely opposite parenting styles, means your poor DS doesn’t know whether he’s coming or going.

I work with children with SEND and they need very clear rules and strict boundaries.
If they start misbehaving then they get told what the consequence would be if they carry on.

For most students once they start deregulating, they are ignored and just given simple clear instructions telling them to correct their behaviour.
Shouting or talking at them loads is not going to help because they cannot hear you or comprehend you in that moment.

I will shout if I need to and it’s important to raise your voice when needed but 99% of the time I speak calmly.
I would give a cuddle after a meltdown but only once they’ve apologised and meant it.

Then they need to be the one to tidy up and the sanction that I’ve given them e.g. not playing with a particular toy or iPad needs to stick until a certain time.

The difference in parenting is so confusing for him and it’s so important for you and your DH to be on the same page.

I would speak to DH and explain how shouting at him in that moment isn’t working and that it actually just stresses everyone out more.

He was absolutely right by telling him that what he was doing was wrong but with a meltdown you either need to stop it from happening or have consequences afterwards.
Its very difficult to stop it halfway through and sometimes they need to get it out and bring stressed is going to prelong it.

I would make a behaviour chart with DS and ask him what rewards or sanctions he wants and what he would like to do when he gets upset (be left alone, not be shouted at etc). I would put this on the wall and use stickers and if he starts getting upset you can remind him of it and explain and try and help a meltdown.

Of course he’s only little so it’s not going to be perfect but it will give him the structure he needs as he will understand the rules.
It will also help you and DH be on the same page and instead of shouting at him he can warn and then put an unhappy face on the chart which will make your DS’s life so much easier.

I think you DH doesn't know how to approach your DS. He is in the wrong lossing his temper. He need to learn how to manage and deal with the challenges your DS is adding to your daily life.

You are not being soft. He did it wrong here.

DH will not go on parenting course or read an article about it. He just won't. I have pointed this out but he says he doesn't need so called experts telling him how to be a dad.

With the cuddles - DS isn't in meltdown the whole time. So he might throw some stuff but he stops himself and then runs to me for a cuddle. Today he actually jumped in my arms.

DH doesn't believe he is actually autistic. I don't know. Waiting lists are v long. I'd say more ADHD than autism but I not an expert obviously. I try to parent with advice for both conditions in mind - lots of warning etc

His needs are not seen as v high by council as he's made loads of progress. He can communicate. He is potty trained. He interacts and plays. So not sure any external support would be available

Routines are crucial and we aren't good at them. DH and DS in pyjamas at 10am and DH doesn't organise things. DS is happiest in park but been raining so too many days at home. DS cannot cope whole day at home with nothing to do. He doesn't like colouring or activities or anything like that. He likes climbing and running and scooting

I attended an "Incredible Years" course and it really helped. And yes the book is great. Very brisk and sensible and may appeal to your DH.

I combined it with some ASC-specific guidance and meltdown management - there are a lot of good guides now like this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Managing-Meltdowns-Tantrums-Autism-Spectrum/dp/1785928406

I’ve been through the book in detail and have ND children, and have found it helpful.

This is shit parenting, whether your child is NT or ND. And the fact that he doesn't work makes it worse.

Leave him. His behaviour is going to exacerbate your child's not calm it.

I wouldn't worry about him being alone with the kids if you split up as I doubt he'll bother spending time with them.

Again, from what you’ve written:
how long was DS looking for you? Was DH helping him? My DC would have got frustrated with this, helping is preventative.

my DC (4 btw) can only handle 48hrs indoors. we go park in all seasons. Or even just shopping/postbox. We have to or DC struggles at home.

we use lots of now and next.

My DH is the more patient, I wonder if I’m ND.

So, I did a parenting class and research coping strategies and have found it easier to pre empt and avoid scenes, though as time has gone on I don’t think my DC is ND tbh, behaviour changed as speech got better.

Posted too soon,

I can see at least x3 bits where the scene you describe could have been avoided diverted.

Get him to the park, even in the rain. Whack a coat and some wellies on and let DS get out for a bit OP. I would be keeping his routine of getting up and dressed the same even in the holidays if he thrives off routine and structure.

We cross posted.

he says he doesn't need so called experts telling him how to be a dad.

He's clearly wrong about that then isn't he? For what it's worth the professionals will have seen Dads like your DH before, it's a common pattern.

In my experience getting external support is very random. Ask for anything and everything from anyone and everyone (well, as long as you have the energy) Support is not centralised and what's available keeps changing and new initiatives come and go, so someone may eventually say yes! Talk to other parents of similar kids locally if you can. See if there's a local NAS or any other disability support groups.

My DS could do all the things you've listed and at different times he still got support in school, access to a playscheme, a place on a communications skills group etc.

I symapthise over the rainy days at home! Sometimes there's no perfect answer, you just have to muddle through as best you can. Taking DS out in the rain or letting him bounce around in a muddy garden may be as good as it gets.

DH will not go on parenting course or read an article about it. He just won't. I have pointed this out but he says he doesn't need so called experts telling him how to be a dad.

Well that says it all doesn’t it.

It doesn’t actually matter if DS is autistic or has ADHD or not.
Shouting or getting annoyed at a NT child is not going to work just like it wouldn’t with a ND child.

I do know of a parent who was upset/ashamed about their child being ND and they were stricter on them because they were trying to stop them from being that way.
I do believe they were doing it out of love because no one would hope their child is ND and they’ll have a much more difficult life than someone who is NT but it doesn’t just go away because you shout at them.

I wonder if DH is struggling to come to terms with him potentially being ND.
Perhaps he is ashamed of the stigma attached to it.

I used to be a mainstream teacher but I’m now a SEND teacher.
Working with ND children has absolutely helped me with working with NT (mainstream) because the strategies used for children with autism or ADHD etc really benefits children who don’t have these.
There are also so many children who are undiagnosed but in mainstream still.

Perhaps coming at it from a different angle will help your DH and in turn help DS.
Instead of focusing on his autism then focus on how important it is for all children to have strict rules and boundaries and how shouting or getting stressed with any child is not helpful.

Your DH is a bully and behaving like a child himself.

You have a child with possible additional needs, you know what works, he is destroying it.....it is that simple..he won't change op.

I would leave the marriage, get DH back to work, and parent the way your DS needs, minimising contact with DH.

he stops himself and then runs to me for a cuddle.

I can't tell you much I wish my DS would have done that! We just had to leave DS be and let tantrums/meltdowns burn themselves out as safely as possible.

Get waterproof clothes for you and DS and DD

Get legal advice ASAP

LTB

OP my oldest has autism and ADHD and it's exhausting. He is 11 and has phenomenal meltdowns in the school holidays as he can't cope with the lack of routine and does regress a lot. He still had meltdowns in term time but nowhere near as many.

I don't agree with your DH approach as shouting at your ds and refusing to let him near you till he has tidied up is cruel. However equally I would not tolerate my ds destroying our home or risking injuring himself or his siblings in a meltdown. A child being hit by a thrown ornament or glass could sustain a lifelong injury or be killed. Personally I would have either removed ds by lifting him to a safe quiet space at that age or removed the items till he calmed down then spoken to him about why he must not throw things when he was calm. Social stories can be hugely helpful in this scenario. You can get templates on line which you can alter to fit. Shouting at a child in distress only makes them more distressed so staying calm and showing positive reinforcement tends to be better and ensuring a safe space for that child.

Also personally I try keep some type of routine in the holidays and plan activities etc so my DS knows what's happening that week. He feels safer knowing which means he is calmer.

I would also look at sensory systems as children with autism can have a lot of sensory processing difficulties which makes certain scenarios or situations far more difficult. Think things like noise sensitivity can make busy places overwhelming, touch sensitivity can mean he feels a gentle touch is painful at times etc. There are 7 sensory systems so please read up on them including as if your DS has sensory processing difficulties it can help to identify your DS needs. Once you do this you can put him a on a sensory diet which will reduce his meltdowns massively. Things like bouncing on a trampoline, cycling, running, using air defenders, setting up a sensory area full of sensory lights and sensory toys, giving him a chew buddy etc. These things can make a massive difference. Also if you don't know already both start watching your son for signs he is getting overwhelmed and you can often prevent a meltdown if you know them or his triggers. For example my son will start to stim verbally but is quite nasty verbally to the rest of the family, he will grab his hands pace back and forth for ages and snap at anyone who goes near him. I often will run him a bath at this point or suggest he plays with Lego. Vitamins with omega 6 and vitamin b12 and 6 are helpful to.

Apologies you may know all this but I didn't when DS was 5 and really wished I did.

If DH won't listen to 'experts' for parenting advice, could you try other ND parents - perhaps on here or another relevant online support group. It sounds like you are all struggling, DH included.

Wow. This sounds like my ds...exactly the same. My dh used to lose it with him too but I got him to realise that our ds needs our patience and understanding and that raising our voices makes matters worse. With our ds, we desperately try distraction techniques and cuddles mid meltdown. It's so difficult to hug him when he's got the red mist but it really helps.

He's just returned home and instantly the atmosphere worsens. Me and the kids had a good morning watching paw patrol and doing races in the garden.

I would leave tomorrow to be honest with the way things are @Nanny0gg but I'm terrified of family courts fter reading too many threads on here!

Your way of dealing with it was much better but my autistic child is 10 now and his behaviour is so challenging that I've had a mental breakdown or two. So, I'm not judging too harshly tbh.

That's why get good legal advice before you say anything to him
He's abusing your son

This is great advice.