DH being horrible to DS or have I lost perspective?

[LostNorthener]

DS is nearly 5. He's on waiting lists for ASD and ADHD due to some pretty challenging stuff v early on - verbal delay, can't follow any sort of instruction, can be very aggressive, has tics. Nursery recommended the referrals. He's down brilliantly at nursery and almost all aggression and meltdowns had disappeared or at least really reduced. He loved the routine and I've made big progress at home too. Nursery and the local authority confident that he's ready to start mainstream school in Sep.

Since nursery is closed now for summer his behaviour has plummeted. We are back to throwing things, slamming doors, lots of tears and hurting himself over tiny things. In 10 days we have gone back 6 months!

DH is in-between jobs and taking a break over summer so has DS full time and it's not going well.

This morning DS threw a glass on the floor because he couldn't find a toy.

DH dragged him into the sitting room. Started shouting. DS then went crazy throwing books off shelves, throwing shoes, a vase got smashed. I was just busy keeping younger DD safe. DH shouting top of his voice "you stop it" physically retaining him. DS kept saying "I want mummy for cuddle" and DH shouting "I bet you want your mother but you've got me and you're not getting a bike, or seeing your mum, until you pick up all this stuff and behave yourself" DH was very loud in the shouting even when DS was just sitting still crying. The throwing lasted 5 mins but the shouting lasted much longer. At one point DS was shouting "leave me alone" and DH was shouting "you leave me alone" at each other over and over.

I ended up going in the room and DH shouted at me "DS is not allowed to see you until he's picked up everything he is a horrible boy" DS crying on sofa. I say "how about we pick things up together DS" DS nods and we tidy-up the whole house - DS doing it with me helping him. DH storms out saying I'm so fuxking soft etc

DH has now left house

Do I sound too soft?
Or do people think actually I should have stepped in much sooner
If me and DH split (we have some other issues) wouldn't I be causing more harm to my son as God knows what DH would do if i wasn't there
DS always wants a cuddle after a meltdown- DH says I'm rewarding him. I think I'm comforting him
Does my DH sound horrible or just he has his boundaries as he would say.

I don't know if this is parenting or AIBU or relationships but putting here. Any thoughts welcome as I feel totally lost here.

I’m not making excuses. Read my comment again. I didn’t say “oh poor diddums, he can’t help it.”

Your mention of emotional disregulation is classic ADHD.

This is a derail so I won’t continue it but I absolutely reject any suggestion that I am making excuses for aggressive men. If you think I’m saying that it might sometimes be OK to scream in anyone’s face, let alone a small child’s, then nothing I might say is going to convince you otherwise.

Your son acted out of frustration.

Your husband did exactly the same.

Your son is 5, your husband is an adult.

Please point this out to your husband.

Your DH's behaviour was disgusting - bad enough to an NT child, but to a possibly ND one? I am now divorced because of very similar behaviour...and do you know what, although he's sad that his dad isn't around (he still sees him regularly) DS's behaviour at home is completely different, much calmer, much less angsty.

With your DH behaving like that is it any wonder your DS copies it when he's having a meltdown?

When you split things will get better, some practical stuff will no doubt be challenging but I would be surprised if your kids weren't a lot happier and more relaxed.

Start getting your ducks lined up now @LostNorthener - if you want a recommendation for a really good north of England solicitor pls DM me. And start looking forward to a new chapter, the three of you deserve much better.

I have dealt with similar. I couldn't get DH to understand that we had to learn to work with DS's personality as it was hopeless to keep fighting against it. Some of it was down to how similar they are and, actually, mirrored each other's behaviour but in an age appropriate way.

How much does your DH really understand about ASD/ADHD? Is he trying to 'educate' himself about his son? What are his expectations and how do they match with yours?

@Caprisunny my husband is out of work. i already pay all the mortgage and bills myself and have done for some time (as he wasn't earning very much even when he was working). I could just about buy him out I think - depends. He couldnt' afford to house himself at the moment so god knows what would happen.

Your DH needs to do some courses on how to parent a neurodivergent child. He's totally out of order. You have to get on the same page here because you've got a long road ahead. I'm a (single) SN parent and have trod this road. Thankfully I'm divorced now.

And it turns out that DH has recently been diagnosed with ASD, ADHD and Bipolar 2 - so they were mirroring!
It also explained why DH couldn't see another way of doing it.

@CornishPixiePasties I’m sure your motives are good.

But although you didn’t say “aw diddums” etc, you did say “aggressive man yes but ADHD”.

If you’d followed it up with ‘and his behaviour around his child is not ok and it’s his responsibility to pursue support to help him regulate” I wouldn’t have commented. The OP is doubting herself as too soft etc and doesn’t need any more reason to doubt herself and feel pressured to think: “I need to make space for his aggression and be understanding because ADHD”.

Oh bore off. I’m sorry my response wasn’t up to your stringent standards but you’re not the thread police. I’m sure YOUR motives are good but you’re coming across as incredibly patronising.

The main reason That really forced me to end it with my ex was his behaviour to my son
who I since discovered is … asd

parenting an asd child is hard and the conventional Parenting flat out doesn’t work

if he can’t or won’t adapt his parenting to accommodate you might end up having problems (I do !)

its so bloody hard but the support on Facebook groups has saved me
and I prefer being a single mum

Sorry if I sound pessimistic

bit if he can’t or won’t adapt you may need to consider options x

Wether the outcome is divorce, or not.

Get your some legal advice. Is there a chance he will claim not to be out of work but that he is actually the sahp to get a larger portion of joint assets?

He sounds like an arse. But you need to think carefully about your next move

@CornishPixiePasties Bore off? Wow ok. Let’s get back to trying to support the OP shall we? FFS.

And it’s not being ‘the thread police’ to have an opinion on a post.

Thats kind of the point of the site.

OP, you're getting a lot of advice from people with NT children, who whilst they mean the best, haven't got the first fucking clue what you're going through. Or your DS. Or your DH.

It's so hard. DH was at the end of his tether. He wasn't abusive, he was totally exhausted, unprepared and lost as to what else to do, and lets be honest, you've been there too. I have, with my DS. We're only human, and it can be relentless to the point you could just cry and run and never look back. We have moments we're not proud of.

He's right, he can't just go round smashing glasses and vases around the house. You can't live like that. We had similar behaviour. What worked for us, was both restraining (it's only a matter of time before he seriously hurts himself if he's able to smash things like this) and removing things from his reach (temporarily) and comforting during a meltdown. The comfort is not because we are soft, but because when DS is in that state, I could be talking Russian for the amount he actually takes on board. Once he's calmed, he gets a really stern talking too. Because that behaviour is not ok.

With DS, on the instruction of his consultant, we removed virtually every from the house. If it wasn't there he couldn't smash it. He would absolutely trash his room. So this got emptied of everything other than bed and wardrobe. And that was our very barren life for 16mths. It took that long for him to mature past the point of screaming and smashing. And we introduced things back slowly. Some he smashed again, and everything would come out again. Here we are 8yrs on, and it happens maybe once a year now.

Take advice from your doctor. A lot of how we've been professionally advised to help DS, would have the "average" mum pearl clutching at our "poor child" being treated like that. A lot of it has been hard and against my instincts as a mother. But with my benefit of hindsight, it's all been invaluable and DS is a better child, with an infinitely happier life, because of that advice.

Would it be appropriate for your dh to treat a work colleague that way? Absolutely not. So why would it be ok to treat a young child with additional needs that way/ You should have stepped in earlier and told your dh to step away as he is getting overwhelmed. It's interesting that you didn't, are you worried about making your dh worse? You shouldn't feel afraid to tell your partner if they are getting it wrong nor should you be sworn at in front of your child.

Whilst not going to nursery will massively impact on your son. Have you considered that your Dh treatment of him is making things worse. And have you considered his treatment of your child might be worse when you are not there?

You need to advocate for your child. Is dad coping with caring for his son? If no then you need to make alternative arrangements. And if dad wants to be better he needs to do a parenting course and do some reading on neuro diversity and how best to support his children. An anger management course or counselling would also help. If your dh refuses to acknowledge his mistakes then you need to consider if he is a positive person in your sons life.

I felt quite ill reading that. Your husband (no D about it) is an adult and your small child is exactly that.

Your husband should know better but it seems he doesn't and that's very sad.

People have obviously said plenty about the future and good to see you're thinking about that.

As a short-term solution, your H needs to get a temp job - any job - to pay for your DS to go to nursery/childminders. Delivery work, shift work, anything. He's obviously incapable of providing the calm, structured, affectionate environment your DS needs to thrive so he needs to pay for people who can do this.

Absolutely. A cuddle after a meltdown helps them to regulate. It teaches them that they are loved and supported when they are struggling. That they are ok.

Honestly it's so stressful dealing with an autistic child.

He's right to be trying to chastise him. He can't just allow his son to not have any boundaries but it seems he doesn't know appropriate strategies to deal with him.
Once he gets his diagnosis that will help and they will give you suggested methods of how to handle meltdowns etc.

There is a lot on the internet do some research together.

It sounds like he's just at the end of his tether with him it's hard

Bloody hell. Poor DS and poor you! It just be so hard to form boundaries with your DH if he doesn't understand how to parent your child without losing his rag.

I think your H needs to take a step back and take some serious time to research and understand his child. He cannot expect to parent his challenging child well if he's not able to control his own challenging behaviour.

FWIW it's possible to come back from this but your H seriously has to want to learn and change.

I wish you all the luck with this.

Ps. To sum up, it sounds v much like your parenting isn't the problem, nor your boundaries. It's your husband's.

The one thing I wish someone had told me on here 15 years ago was this: If you even suspect ASD or any other ND, start working with your child as if this has already been diagnosed. You don't have to wait. And if you're wrong, it won't do them any harm. (We waited years to go through the dx process).

So the first thing you both have to do is accept you have a child with ASD.

Then you have to alter your behaviour accordingly. This is hard. It seems to be especially hard for people (Ok men) who were brought up in a 'do as I do' way. But actually, with just a little bit of work this kind of parenting style can work well with ASD children because it is consistent and structured. It also needs to be kind and safe though, and that's what your DH needs to work on. He needs to work on this whether you split up or not!

Today sounds like a perfect storm of disregulation. Holidays are bloody horrible for some people with ASD, he's also got this huge transition of school coming up. It's a lot. DH handled it badly - but if you show me an ASD parent who has never handled a meltdown badly then I'll eat my hat. He can work on this, but he has to want to work on it. A course is a great idea.

I also agree with the pp who said during a meltdown, if the child is safe, then you don't rush in with hugs or comfort - that comes after. I think honestly you're both rushing in with techniques that might not be 100% correct.

Before I get jumped on, just to be clear your DH was wrong today and that behaviour needs to be nipped strongly in the bud. But there's lots going on and you all need strategies to get through the summer successfully.

Your DH needs to up his parenting game. I absolutely understand his frustration but what he is doing is only going to make things worse. You are doing a great job and totally getting it right! Agree with other posters that there are practical solutions such as meltdown-proofing the house, and keeping to a good routine ,which will all help to minimise meltdowns and make them less destructive. That's how it is when you have a child with these issues!

Your DH probably has some of the same traits as DS but DH hasn't had the same interventions and support that your DS will have. So DH is stuck with poor emotional regulation and with not understanding his own behaviour. But he's an adult and you can't fix him.

A lot of families with neurodiverse kids do have the same problem - one or both parents have issues as well which have a bad effect on their parenting especially if it leads to rigid behaviour and bad strategies to manage frustrations like your DH.

Has your DH been offered any support with parenting? Like a parenting group, or "Early Bird" for autism? Would your DH consider it?

Do not let any of this stop you leaving DH, if DH has been treating you badly You need to provide a calm supportive environment for DS and if DH can't self-regulate then you wont be able to build that environment and especially not if DH is unkind to you as well. Better for you and the kids to have a calm safe space living away from him.

could DH request to have DD 50% of the time but not DS.

Your DH can request anything but my understanding is that kids' wellbeing is paramount and taking one child and not the other is usually frowned on. If (for example) he repeatedly gets into screaming matches with one of his children and refuses to attend a parenting group that would also count against him getting the kind of access he wants.

Your DH has been given a valuable lesson - but one he will doubtless ignore. He got a tiny glmipse of what it is like to be his son.

As a mature adult, he was not able to control himself when overwhelmed - yet he expects a 5 year old child to be able to do it.

Children learn from what they see. Until he can control himself, he needs to be elsewhere.

Why can’t your husband regulate his emotions and why did he have a melt down? Is your son neurodiverse because he’s inherited it from his dad?

You came across as the adult I’m this situation. Your husband hasnt come across well.

Your DH seems to think it’s a choice between being soft and saying his behaviour is ok and shouting awful things at him.

Maybe a parenting course would indeed be good. The incredible years ones are NHS endorsed and although for NT kids, many of the strategies would be an improvement on his current approach. In the meantime the book is helpful, even just reading a bit of it might help him get in the right frame of mind.

https://amzn.to/3YcnbKa