Teen DD says I’m in a toxic relationship with DH

[carolmorederman]

This situation sounds abusive; you get to be the problem, he takes zero responsibility, you get to be judged and scrutinized but he'll never examine his own behaviour.
just saw these wise words on another relationship thread and it’s dawned on me that this is my DH. For years he blamed his boss and brought home stress.

He blamed me for not getting a job - yet I now wonder if any training I did was sabotaged. Any job I got wasn’t good enough.last year he nagged an LOT annd After a LOT of trying and courses and nagging I got a job I enjoyed but DH needed to be persuaded I should take it as it’s minimum wage. After a few months DH nagged me until I left it. it - ostensibly to persuade DD who had suddenly moved out to return. Possibly because he was being asked to do more around the house.
now my DD who is 18 and suddenly left is telling me that we are in a toxic relationship, he puts me down and I need to work on myself.
DH blames her partner for her leaving and says, ‘we’ve done nothing wrong’ when I say we must have he insists it’s all the partners scheming.
im very confused. I suspect DD has a point.
as I’ve written it here, it doesn’t sound so good. But DH works very hard and wanted always to give the kids nice things.
just confused and emotionally not sure where I am.

That's the point of it. To leave you so completely destabilised that your brain is constantly in panic mode. He doesn't want you to do or not do the thing, he wants you to be unable to make a decision and he gets to berate you whatever happens.

That's abuse.

Your DD told you this in July. Has she spoken to you about it since then?

I think your DD right about your relationship, he sounds very domineering and you seem worn down by it all. I remember feeling very confused and disoriented when I began I identify that my (now ex) husband was abusive. It was actually a colleague that helped me when I broke down at work one day. She recommend the book ‘Why Does He Do That?’ by Lundy Bancroft. It was very helpful and helped me unpick what was really going on. I got a copy of the book to read on my phone so he couldn’t see what I was reading. I remember the feeling of utter confusion very well, but once your eyes are open it is impossible not to see.

Some questions to ask yourself about the relationship:

Do you have equal access to money in the relationship? Or does he control all the money and tell you what you can/can’t buy? Does he give you an allowance? Do you have access to a car and can you get around independently without him interfering?

What happens if you say no to something? You’ve already shared that he pesters you until you give in. Does he ever become verbally abusive or physically confrontational?

What happens if you want to go out with a friend? Is he supportive of your friendships and personal relationships? Does he try to keep you at home all the time and not have a life outside the home or away from him?

Does he try to control any other areas of your life? Can you make your own decisions about to wear etc, without him getting involved or ‘helping’ in some way?

Does he respect your stuff (your personal belongings)? Does he hide or break them? Do you have anything that’s just for you?

Start asking yourself questions and really think about the answers. Sometimes it’s really hard to unpick control and abuse because abusers are good at misdirection.

Thank you. All. Will consider when I have time, better go!

Really sorry to read the thread. He sounds absolutely awful, OP.

Hope you're planning your exit. Perhaps you could write a 'things to do' list for him instead. Just one item on it though:

1. Stick your to-do lists and odious personality up your bully-boy arse.

I just can’t see it. Looking back, there’s stuff I wonder about, but it’s so insidious that at the time you can’t see it. It’s not until I look back in time that I think, well maybe that was controlling. But I’m not sure. I think it’s cost me my brother ( but he has drink problems, my mum ( who found reasons not to visit, ) my DD, who’s left. What’s going on? Why am I so stupid, why do i question and debate and not just say f it. ( apart from massive challenges of selling house etc. other people do it)
therapist seems to have decided I’m scared of rejection. So why am I more scared of him rejecting me rather than brother?

This is why I don’t get it West. You kindly spent a while typing out questions. Here are the answers.

o you have equal access to money in the relationship? Or does he control all the money and tell you what you can/can’t buy? Does he give you an allowance? Do you have access to a car and can you get around independently without him interfering?

yes.we have a joint account. I can take what I like. Though he will obviously query if it’s loads.Yes I have a car. He has in the past been embarrassing- but tbf. He’d just had a massage illness and was worried.

What happens if you say no to something? You’ve already shared that he pesters you until you give in. Does he ever become verbally abusive or physically confrontational?
No. In the past he’s walloped the wall and made a hole, but that was ages ago. I’d gone for pizza with a mate and the kids and he’d got crosss because if I was going to spend money on pizza with the kids, he wanted to be there and enjoy it too.

What happens if you want to go out with a friend? Is he supportive of your friendships and personal relationships? Does he try to keep you at home all the time and not have a life outside the home or away from him?

he has, in the past, made a fuss as in, ‘oh I wanted to watch a film with you tonight’ he has said re jobs, that they don’t earn enough. I’ve had to put my foot down and say, yes but it might lead somewhere. He has started a row as I’m on my way out the door, which is super crap.

Does he try to control any other areas of your life? Can you make your own decisions about to wear etc, without him getting involved or ‘helping’ in some way?
hmm. He isn’t bothered. Recently we met his old school mates. He suddenly suggested I get a hair cut and dye, bought me a new purse and trainers. A bit of me wondered if that’s because he’ll be with his chums…

Does he respect your stuff (your personal belongings)? Does he hide or break them? Do you have anything that’s just for you?
ah. A few years ago he shoved my paintings in a cupboard breaking the glass as he did. He denied knowledge. I have my art that’s just for me, but currently have lost confidence. I now get stressed about going to art class or painting at home. That could be just me being scared of failure though.He has been known to barge in as I’m packing orders and tell me it’s not worth it. That I can ‘ forget about art’. Other times he’s been very supportive - he was super chuffed when I won some award.

im sure you didn’t want to have a literal reply! In between times he’s very nice, very tired, muddling along like the rest of us. He works v hard as he wants to provide for the kids, the obvious. Problem being he’s never there for them.I wonder if he’s selfish, he doesn’t know?

You're not stupid. If you're stupid, so am I, because I stayed in a controlling relationship for over 20 years and didn't even begin to see it for what it was until the last 3 or 4. And even then, when I began to see some of what was going on, it came and it went. It was like a curtain flicking back for a moment and some of the machinery was visible, and then suddenly it fell back and I wasn't even sure that I'd seen what I thought I had seen. But gradually, I pieced together the glimpses and it all added up to a picture I couldn't live with anymore. You will get there, but it takes time when you've loved someone and believed that they loved you. There are a lot of very manipulative people out there and you and I both fell prey to one. But we have not been stupid, we just made the mistake of taking someone at face value, because otherwise how would you ever experience love.

Try to be kinder to yourself.

And go back to art class.

Thanks departure I’m so sorry you went through what you did.

He is very controlling OP and it upsets me that he put ur talents down, except for when you won an award. I bet he bragged about that one! He had to criticise your hobby and ability to earn money through your art work because it was taking time and attention away from him. You have a talent which should be supported and nurtured. These are the things which keep us sane and ease the drudgery of everyday life.
He has successfully alienated you from members of your family. Those relationships can be repaired when you leave him.
it is daunting but you do know the right decision is to leave. Once you’re through the initial weirdness of leaving, you will have a much happier life and your confidence will soar

My ex husband was like that. Was incredibly "supportive" of me doing stuff, then once I was doing it, sabotaged it, then told me I could never stick to anything.

Round and round and round this went for years. Took me forever to clock what he was doing!

he gets grumpy if I’m not stressed about it too.

live realsied this is a pattern. It completely swerves me.

This. You are beginning to see it.

This is why the details do not matter so much as the fact that his behaviour keeps you on the back foot, confused about what is happening to you and robbing you of the time and space to see clearly.

Your are getting there, well done & keep going. You might find The Lundy Bancroft book helpful to read on your phone. Google from a private tab for the pdf

You have so got this.

Thanks.
My ex husband was like that. Was incredibly "supportive" of me doing stuff, then once I was doing it, sabotaged it, then told me I could never stick to anything.

I don’t know if this is what is happening or it’s me making excuses for being crap. Thank you for flagging this is even a thing afieldguide

finally I’ve read Bancroft, and Darcy lancer etc. a lot of the articles seemed to be about extreme behaviors. I found them hard to read - he’s not nasty. He just wants what he wants I guess.
lm also pretty annoying- I get in a muddle, don’t get stuff done effectively.

I don’t know if this is what is happening or it’s me making excuses for being crap.

I don't even know you and I know the answer to this.

He doesn't have to be a 'bad' man to be bad for you, by the way.

Maybe with a better husband—or no husband you wouldn’t “get muddled” and you would be loved and admired for who you are muddled or not? As the poster above me said so perfectly “he doesn’t have to be a bad man to be bad FOR YOU”

We judge him an abusive, mean, bad oerson on the strength of what you gave told us but you don’t have to judge him or decide what class of asshole he is in order to leave him. I don’t have to hate strawberry icecream in order to choose a flavor I like better.

This guy makes you miserable, muddled, confused, and you feel horrible all the time with him. Did you know that is not necessary? Your husband should mske you feel very happy and love and appreciate you “warts and all”

You haven't lost your DD. She wants to help you that's why she spelled out the truth of your relationship to you. She left because of her Dad, not you. Please reach out to her,

lm also pretty annoying- I get in a muddle, don’t get stuff done effectively.

So you are often confused, muddled, annoying, failing at most things, disappointing........ what else, or is this all?

You keep talking yourself down, @carolmorederman . Why do you think you do that? Have you discussed this with your therapist?

Hint: it's not you, it's him...

lm also pretty annoying- I get in a muddle, don’t get stuff done effectively.

You're a human being. Not a machine. I hope you can change your mind and feel better about yourself because that is key to seeing things for what they are.

I would venture that it is your husband's demands, and your anxiety about meeting them, being expected to do things the way he wants, that is making you feel like that. I've been there but it has been better since I decided I'm alright as I am and to care less about his expectations. The subtle art of not giving a f*ck by Mark Manson is worth a read.

Oh brilliant thank you! Have been reading the subtle art of and it’s helpful!
DH was very tired and stressed but I think things have got better for him - he’s perked up a lot. I’ve upped my part time job hours and hope to do more. Astonishingly it’s giving me a load of confidence!
lets hope things are on the up.

Great OP, glad things have been better and the book is helpful. And great you’ve had a confidence lift! One thing that rang bells for me in the book was about recognising that others peoples shit is their shit not yours (well, mine) and about not getting sucked in to what others want when it doesn’t suit you (though I do need to practise this and get better at it).

Are yes, very good point. And yes, like you,I DEFINITELY a need to practice this. I used to be quite good at it, now I don’t even realize it’s happening. Doh.
Reading and learning a lot. Interesting that lack of confidence can tilt the relationship to lopsided.
https://whatiscodependency.com/
seems ok. Might be worth a skim, but all a bit intense. I prefer not to give a f**!

😆

Just a quick vent. Though I think I know the answer.
I have a Xmas side hustle, it’s fun, makes some money. ( about 3k usually! I’m v proud of it) EVERY year DH will come into the room, suddenly go on about the house being a mess, point out whatever is messy and tell me this will never make any money. He usually waits till I am filling orders to do this
I said,’ you do this every year’ and he said, it’ll never make money, you can get your job back’
This is the job I fought REALLY hard to get, he didn’t like that it was minimum wage, and I secretly suspect he was too knackered to do the extra housework .Anyway he persueded me to leave it (after nagging me to get it) to deal with some family stuff.
Im sitting feeling wierd, like that it’s a blow to my carefully built up confidence. I’m not making excuses for my own ineptitude, but it takes me a lot to get the confidence to do this side hustle. I’ve watched other people turn similar into good businesses. I’m not saying I would have, but, oh I don’t know.
Im thinking of hiring a business coach to help me deal with this. It just makes me feel anxious, miserable and, I don’t even know.

also, question, we had a rare day out with DS and I felt that DH was making the odd patronizing comment and looking sideways at DS (15) to see how he’d take it.
I don’t know if I am. But it made me uncomfortable as I didn’t know whether to just laugh it off or stick up for myself, as DS was listening.
I raised it later and he said I was too sensitive, making up slights. He’s been upset about stuff I’ve said to DS too.

that’s classic DARVO isn’t it?

Oh yeah, and this is wierd, I’ve noticed if we have a bit of a shufty, either later on or the next day he’ll find something to tell me off about.

He is going to get counseling for other stuff so I’m hoping the counselor will help? Thanks

You keep minimizing and blaming yourself. You get confused and muddled and believe him when he tells you that it's all down to you. Then you keep persuading yourself that things aren't that bad, he isn't really doing it on purpose, "I'm not one of those women Dr Bancroft is writing about"......

And so it goes on. Now you seem to hope that HIS counselor will make him change and fix things. This is not going to happen! He is the counselor's client, not you. You need your own therapist! Your husband will never take on board what you or others might tell him.

This will only change if and when YOU take steps to change what YOU do.

Honestly, I wouldn't get too bogged down in all the acronyms, DARVO and FOG and whatnot.

You've just described very articulately how reliably he undermines you when you try to do something that's important to you (as well as being objectively important, in the sense that it makes money). No wonder it takes a lot out of you to get it up and running each year.

If you want to try and make it a successful business and a full-time job, why is he not supporting and encouraging you? I would say that's the least a partner worth being with would do. But instead he's saying why are you bothering, this will never come to anything, do something/anything else, give up, etc etc.

Why are you not totally hopping mad with this treatment? Why are you blaming it on your "ineptitude"? You're not inept. On the contrary, you pull this project out of the bag year after year in the face of extraordinary negativity and unkindness from the one person who should be backing you up 100%.

You need a cheerleader in your life instead of this saboteur. You could hire a business coach but it's all money, so I would look for free mentoring schemes first tbh. Your local council might have a small business support scheme or similar, or you could probably sign up for something online. Or maybe you could start your own group of likeminded people locally who will support each other in setting up small ventures. If you take the initiative to support others, my guess is you would get as much or more support flowing back to you, as well as feeling really empowered by having been the person who made it happen.

And yeah, the pp is right, don't hang around waiting for him to improve, still less for his counsellor to do it for him. This is who he is - or at least this is who he is around you - so you need to make changes in your own life, by yourself, for yourself, that will remove you from his sphere of influence, either literally by leaving, or psychologically by developing some mental armour against his crap.

Honestly, you can do this. The more you post, the more I think you're worth ten of him.