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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Chronic people pleaser

112 replies

WaterBaby9 · 15/07/2023 20:58

I am an absolute pushover and people pleaser. I want to always keep the peace no matter how badly ive been wronged. I never stand up for myself even when inside im bursting. The very few times i have, i end up apologising even when i shouldnt. Im always scared of looking like hassle or a headache. Like, someone could beat me up and ill apologise for bleeding and clean it up. Whats wrong with me?

I dont know the root causes but can therapy address these things? Is it expensive? How do i find one? How do i even start talking about this, its embarassing. I also think id feel better having it over the phone.

It also leaks over when im in a relationship, im deep down insecure but i cant express my wants so i act nonchalant when im screaming inside. Id never question why they are 4 hours late or sat in the car talking on the phone for 30minutes or eyeing up a woman next to us, or that im upset a friend forgot my birthday or cancelled plans without fair notice. I bottle up everything and say oh well. Ive accepted an affair and disgusting treatment because i want to be easy and dont want to cause them headache even when they actively do it to me. I have endless forgiveness for everyone when they dont deserve it. Why? I gain fuck all out of this and tbh im starting to get down about it. Someone upset me the other day and i sat and smiled for an hour and went home and cried instead of saying 'hey, xyz' I clam up and get scared when my friends tell their partners what on their mind and think omg dont he's going to dump you.

What tends to be the root cause of this ?

OP posts:
WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 11:40

@Dacquoises thank you so much. Your post really resonates with me as i believe it started from having to stay 'nice and quiet' with an alocholic dad. Easier to be quiet than feel the wrath of speaking up and its just continued as the few times Ive spoken up, its never worked out as its usually been to combative people. Easier to say nothing to nobody about anything. Thank you x

OP posts:
What3words · 16/07/2023 11:45

Yep child of an alcoholic here too...

It's really hard to unlearn what we're "survival strategies" as a kid and worked well then to keep us alive/safe/etc but really damage us as adults.

WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 11:51

@What3words terrible isnt it. I remember we'd hear the car pull up and all 'get into position' he'd be so angry and demand food etc. if my mum said no he'd smash things so we just used to make his food to appease him and wait for next time. It was easier. He's still like it now but i dont live there anymore.

OP posts:
What3words · 16/07/2023 11:54

And that's the thing to hold onto now. You're safe. You're okay. You don't need to do this anymore. You can just walk away from anyone being mean or unkind now.

When you self refer for iapt they give you a phone appointment to assess what support you need. Make sure you emphasis the alcoholic/fear/etc and the impact its having on your life now.

I think we tend to downplay it "ohbit wasn't all bad..." but that won't get the right support. You need to tell them it was awful and need help unravelling it.

I do wish you all the best. It has been so freeing and I'm so frustrated it's taken me tol my 4pm0s to be free of these shackles of childhood!

Hillrunning · 16/07/2023 12:15

Ive read about the fawn response and it seems really fitting. If someone is mean i do tend to do alot to get them to be happy or nicer again even when they dont deserve it.

This really reminds me of my SIL. It is infuriating as she spends so much time and energy on horrible people who don't actually like her whilst giving little energy to those who do. She can't see it and it drives away the good people.

I'd have binned her off if she was a friend, it's just so frustrating and yes does feel controlling.

It is easier to not do things (hold back an action) than do them (such as stand up for yourself). So could you start with that? Next time you feel the urge to offer to do something, don't. Count to 5 in your head and let the moment pass. Show yourself that nothing awful will happen (and if it does, you know they aren't good people).

Whataretalkingabout · 16/07/2023 13:11

Thank you @WaterBaby9 , others and especially @swayingpalmtree ,@What3words . This post is a revelation for me. I suffer chronically from this trait, which I learned from my father and protestant religious upbringing in the US. It was instilled in me as being somewhat virtuous, always putting others first to an extreme Christ-like degree. I always thought I wasn't trying hard enough, not good enough. . .
My mental health has been a work in progress for 60 years(!) and there is so much information available today and advances in psychology that wasn't around when I was a younger. I live in EU and find therapy in a foreign language and culture unsuccessful.

Meanwhile I have learned a lot and realized how unbecoming and fake people pleasing is in others and how damaging it is for self-love, self-esteem and relationships . However viewing people pleasing as a negative trait that is actually manipulative is so conceptually different than the core belief I had once been brought up on. This is truly eye-opening and an encouragement to change my faulty mindset.

Thank you all for your contributions, suggestions of books and articles too. Mumsnet is the best forum !!

Denimdreams · 16/07/2023 14:37

WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 09:18

Ive read about the fawn response and it seems really fitting. If someone is mean i do tend to do alot to get them to be happy or nicer again even when they dont deserve it.

It feels like the few times ive articulated myself ive always been slaughtered by the other person, made to be over reacting so now i just dont bother. A friend recently promised me something, its been over 10 days and yesterday i asked if we could do said thing, they said they didnt have time, so i said 'if you dont want to its ok, just let me know' i was told i was being unreasonable and shouted at. I was only aaking about what they said. Its like people know im a soft touch and cant argue so go into me and when i do say anything they go into me more so ive just learnt its safer not to.

Another view of this is that the friend gave you a perfectly valid reason, they didn't have time.
Stop, respect their decision and let it go.
Carrying on with " if you don't want to" etc is really irritating.
No shouting isn't nice but you are trying control the situation and push them into saying they don't want to when they have already given you a reason.
I.e You are nice they are not nice .
It's VERY annoying.

Dacquoises · 16/07/2023 14:43

@WaterBaby9 you are very welcome. It's not great being brought up in fear is it? I was raised in a very violent household and had the added whammy of a narcissistic scapegoating mother which has made me very sensitive to public humiliation and shaming. It certainly was an idealogical upbringing of people pleasing in that sense.

Therapy does take a while but is so worth it but also bear in mind that childhood trauma can lead to repeating patterns of allowing abusers in your life, a mixture of very low boundaries and familiarity with this type so you end up fawning over ar**holes rather than filtering them out.

The relationships you are left with need closer attention. I started to stop giving so much which does cause ripples with other people because they're used to receiving and took me for granted. The fun thing is to be the new you, so empowering!

Dacquoises · 16/07/2023 14:44

Wasn't

GreyCarpet · 16/07/2023 14:50

WaterBaby9 · 15/07/2023 21:38

Why do you see it as manipulative? Or how did you come to see it like that? I see it as im just a gentle soul who wants world peace 😭

It's manipulative because it's not honest. You are controlling the narrative by not being honest.

People around you don't want to hurt or upset you generally but they are unwittingly doing it all the time and you go home amd cry about it rather than telling them. Telling them would mean that they can choose to not do it again if they wish.

It's early hard being around people pleasers because you really never know where you stand. 'Nice' is so bland. There's no spark or passion. It's always just a passive smile and nod and "whatever you want to do/go/eat/watch." It's incredibly dull and people don't appreciate it or have respect for it. I've ended relationships with men who are people pleasers because I dislike it so much. Its inauthentic, I don't like people who have poor boundaries because they inevitably let people down or get themselves into situations where their behaviour is poor because they couldn't stand up to someone and say no. It's passive and wet and I find it really unattractive, if I'm honest.

If someone kicks of or dumps you because you've expressed a need they're not early someome you want in your life in the first place.

RantyAnty · 16/07/2023 15:44

Just wanted to say that this has been a very insightful thread. Thanks for starting it OP.

TreesAtSea · 16/07/2023 16:24

RantyAnty · 16/07/2023 15:44

Just wanted to say that this has been a very insightful thread. Thanks for starting it OP.

Agreed

Dacquoises · 16/07/2023 16:50

Something to add, not all people pleasers are equal.

I have always been quite opinionated and strong willed. It was the standing up for myself and being exploited for overgiving to others that was problematic. More of a not showing anger or annoyance because the feelings of being crushed by the other person were terrifying than trying to manipulate someone to like me by not being honest. It's a very complicated problem psychologically.

Denimdreams · 16/07/2023 17:06

Dacquoises · 16/07/2023 16:50

Something to add, not all people pleasers are equal.

I have always been quite opinionated and strong willed. It was the standing up for myself and being exploited for overgiving to others that was problematic. More of a not showing anger or annoyance because the feelings of being crushed by the other person were terrifying than trying to manipulate someone to like me by not being honest. It's a very complicated problem psychologically.

It's actually the same thing.
To avoid the behaviours of others( that cause the unpleasant feelings) you moderate yours -you try to manipulate their behaviour.
Being " strong willed and opinionated" isn't a normal behaviour.
It's the behaviour of someone who isn't being heard or having their needs met.

It's not about blame but about understanding why you behave in the way that you do.
It's a protective mechanism for a young child to manage their behaviour to avoid aggression and violence from a caregiver
Literally survival.
This becomes problematic in adulthood.

Dacquoises · 16/07/2023 17:23

What I meant by being opinionated was going along with anything someone suggests rather than stating my preference. Never had a problem with that. There's lots of mention of not being authentic and being secretly annoyed the other person doesn't mind read. It was when someone did something unpleasant or unreasonable I couldn't react the way I wanted to. Literally terrified of the imagined outcome.

Denimdreams · 16/07/2023 17:35

That's being compliant and easily lead, it leads to resentment and PA behaviours.

Opinionated means you assert your opinions forcefully without listening to others.

What you are describing is the freeze response .

toochesterdraws · 16/07/2023 18:03

WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 09:25

And it wasnt me pestering them or wanting them to fulfill their thing to me. I genuinely wanted to just spend time and do what they suggested. First time ive asked and i felt like a burden doing so, to be met with anger about it after makes me upset because it toook alot for me to ask as i dont like to be problematic or chase people. Just wanted to see them.

Why do you want to be friends with people like this? Why do you go and bend over backwards to please people who are actually rather unpleasant?

Why bother? Dump the nasty people and find some nice ones.

Verystressedsenmum · 16/07/2023 21:09

I’ve a colleague who is a huge people pleaser and over worrier . The worst I’ve every know and my mum is one like others its from a marriage to keep everyone happy to keep him happy although she recognises this and try’s not to as much .

my colleague I doubt very much recognises it , she constantly wants to compliment others often compliments that aren’t true . She will want to talk about your holiday even you may not want to talk about it as much , Just wants to hear about others and say how amazing etc but will not talk about herself even when you do get some info from her it’s very brief as if she finds it uncomfortable she will constantly put herself down , call herself stupid thick fat all not true .
. She constantly implies she can’t do something will never ever say no to anyone . She constantly apologises even when she’s not done anything wrong the thing Is people say she’s lovely but have zero respect for her.
it effects her life massively I know before she worked with me it took her a good couple of years to find a new job after being unhappy in her last job but honestly I can see why she probably told interviewer she couldn’t do the job .
her adult som treats her like shit but she will not say no to him because if she even dares confront him it’s manipulation and she’s terrified that someone will not like her , I don’t think it dawns on her he has no respect for her .
she just says it’s my own fault hopefully it won’t be like this forever but it will in fact it will only get worse but to even suggest to her this would flip her out .
I heard her pass a compliment to a colleague recently that she’d also said to me recently and it sounded fake because it simply wasn’t true .
she will say to me oh stressedmum that’s was your idea that what a good idea and it wasn’t even my idea , I’m like good god stop it .

of course I’ve reassured her but I come to realise that’s not going to work it’s her issue .
it must be so exhausting being her I feel for her I really do and I’d love her to see you can’t possibly keep everyone happy . It’s ionic though the need to people please actually has the opposite effect as for some they find it irritating insincere and a little bit desperate.

squeezedinthemiddlewithyou · 17/07/2023 12:12

Another person wanting to say thank you for this very enlightening thread
Wishing you luck OP
I am in a fairly similar position, need help with people pleasing.
Right now I am off sick from a job I didn't really want to take, but was too polite to turn down (!)
I need to woman up and sort some things out.

Toski · 17/07/2023 12:21

Thank you @WaterBaby9 for starting this thread. I also had an alcoholic parent, and was also a people pleaser, chronically so. I’m better now, but still don’t speak my mind if someone upsets me (tend to think it’s not worth it, but it does mean my own needs are unmet, and that can be tiring). Unsurprisingly, I still have quite a bit of anxiety.

Really liked this, from @Dacquoises ”childhood trauma can lead to repeating patterns of allowing abusers in your life, a mixture of very low boundaries and familiarity with this type so you end up fawning over ar**holes rather than filtering them out.” This is so so so true! “Fawning over the aresholes” - I still tend to think I can win even the worst ones over. (And even I could see I was doing this intentionally, through psychological manipulation.) But why? They aren’t worth our time. The woman who was rude to you, well she can fuck off. Say it with me 😁.

I only learnt this ability to say “enough” in my early 30s (am now 50), when I finally saw how dreadfully my (now ex) boyfriend behaved to me - but it was only when I worked closely with a married couple that I realised how a happily married couple actually behave. Million miles from what I’d seen at home. Yes their relationship included disagreements, but they would be solved, not spiral into an alcoholic rage.

basically, we have been abused as kids, and people pleasing was our coping mechanism, survival, as a pp said. Well, now it’s our time.

Incidentally, my father in law is a chronic people pleaser and I can confirm it’s exhausting to everyone at the receiving end. He’s very Christian so he sees himself as a gentle peace loving soul, very Christ like (like another pp). But others see him as a walk over, a doormat, a mouse, or annoying. We know he’s a good person, and means well, but it’s exhausting the way he genuflects like a second class servant. I just want him to speak up, be more genuine, and also maybe give others a chance to show that they can be kind too (a la the Franklin law above). I’m sure I was very much like this in my 20s. It had been knocked into me as daughter of alcoholic unpredictable narcissistic mother. and yes, we can lay the blame at others’ doors, rather than thinking it was something we had done, and that we need to change!

The poster talking about sex with a people pleaser, oh god, also true. And then I’d get upset if he criticised me, since I wasn’t even meeting my own needs. Onwards and upwards OP and all of us (former or present or recovering :-) people pleasers!

Mary46 · 17/07/2023 12:28

Yes therapy good. I have better boundaries now. I never said no so people pulled me every way! You realise the users too what could u do for them. Im much better no no pushover lol

Libelula21 · 17/07/2023 13:28

RantyAnty · 16/07/2023 15:44

Just wanted to say that this has been a very insightful thread. Thanks for starting it OP.

Also agree!

pendleflyer · 17/07/2023 16:18

@Toski
>>The poster talking about sex with a people pleaser, oh god, also true. And then I’d get upset if he criticised me, since I wasn’t even meeting my own needs. Onwards and upwards OP and all of us (former or present or recovering :-) people pleasers!

thanks - thank god for that was probably me - I feared I'd gone off on one/at a tangent somewhat (no - am not being a people pleaser in saying that) - yep one of the great things about (good) sex is that it can be be particularly great when one party gives not a thought to the other person and just goes for what they want/crave - that can then be a real turn-on for the one being "used".

TreesAtSea · 17/07/2023 16:36

pendleflyer · 17/07/2023 16:18

@Toski
>>The poster talking about sex with a people pleaser, oh god, also true. And then I’d get upset if he criticised me, since I wasn’t even meeting my own needs. Onwards and upwards OP and all of us (former or present or recovering :-) people pleasers!

thanks - thank god for that was probably me - I feared I'd gone off on one/at a tangent somewhat (no - am not being a people pleaser in saying that) - yep one of the great things about (good) sex is that it can be be particularly great when one party gives not a thought to the other person and just goes for what they want/crave - that can then be a real turn-on for the one being "used".

Yeah, you just keep on telling yourself that.

You're male, aren't you? I've been in an emotionally and sexually abusive relationship, where not a thought was given to me or my experience and, believe me, being used like that (no need for the pathetic speech marks) was anything but a turn-on. Easy for a man, who will almost certainly be physically stronger than his female partner, to come out with such nonsense, but what if you read the signs wrong, since you're not even giving her a single thought and all that, and end up raping her?

Your initial post was bad enough, and very off-key in relation to the rest of this thread. Your follow-up post is even worse and yet you seem so pleased with yourself. Just reading it had a chilling effect and has left me literally shaking.

Otherwise, this thread has been very helpful.

billy1966 · 17/07/2023 17:01

Great thread.
So much wisdom

OP I do think chronic pleasers tend to attract arseholes and be treated very poorly as a result.

Some shouting at you yesterday was not good, have an hobest look at those around you.

@HermeticDawn post is interesting. Her 80 year old mother has spent her life bending over for others, but is now alone.

People pleasers are hard to be around and can come across as very false which can make people like me very uncomfortable around them.

Also in my experience those that I have known to be very sweet and kind tend not to be underneath so I am very wary of any a bit saccharine.

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