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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Chronic people pleaser

112 replies

WaterBaby9 · 15/07/2023 20:58

I am an absolute pushover and people pleaser. I want to always keep the peace no matter how badly ive been wronged. I never stand up for myself even when inside im bursting. The very few times i have, i end up apologising even when i shouldnt. Im always scared of looking like hassle or a headache. Like, someone could beat me up and ill apologise for bleeding and clean it up. Whats wrong with me?

I dont know the root causes but can therapy address these things? Is it expensive? How do i find one? How do i even start talking about this, its embarassing. I also think id feel better having it over the phone.

It also leaks over when im in a relationship, im deep down insecure but i cant express my wants so i act nonchalant when im screaming inside. Id never question why they are 4 hours late or sat in the car talking on the phone for 30minutes or eyeing up a woman next to us, or that im upset a friend forgot my birthday or cancelled plans without fair notice. I bottle up everything and say oh well. Ive accepted an affair and disgusting treatment because i want to be easy and dont want to cause them headache even when they actively do it to me. I have endless forgiveness for everyone when they dont deserve it. Why? I gain fuck all out of this and tbh im starting to get down about it. Someone upset me the other day and i sat and smiled for an hour and went home and cried instead of saying 'hey, xyz' I clam up and get scared when my friends tell their partners what on their mind and think omg dont he's going to dump you.

What tends to be the root cause of this ?

OP posts:
TheOutlaws · 16/07/2023 08:05

OP I’ve just finished a dissertation on autistic girls, and excessive people-pleasing came up time and again. Because their needs aren’t being met, they push them down and try to curry favour with everyone around them to boost self-esteem. It leads to burnout and depression/anxiety, because they can’t meet other people’s needs, nor their own.

I’m not applying this explanation to you, but it’s something you might wish to reflect upon.

FOJN · 16/07/2023 08:26

How will they think of me? How will i look?

You are substituting other people's good opinion of you for genuine self esteem. This gives other people both the responsibility and power to change how you feel about yourself. You think of yourself as being a pushover and accomodating but in reality you are burdening other people with the responsibility of giving you a sense of self worth, this is an unreliable way to feel OK with yourself as you are finding out. Other people's failure to be decent towards you only reinforces a belief you are not worthy of basic respect but if you don't even respect yourself then no one else will.

What they think of you is none of your business and no one owes you a favourable review. This sounds harsh but once you accept this it helps you to stop worrying about what other people think and start concentrating on building a more reliable sense of self worth from within.

Learning to prioritise how you feel about yourself rather than how other people see you is a long process and takes practice. Some therapy may help you but I do think you need to stop thinking about this trait as evidence of "niceness", it really isn't.

swayingpalmtree · 16/07/2023 08:49

xPissflapsx · 15/07/2023 22:41

I am exactly the same and wish I knew how to stop too.

So, it goes like this:

  1. situation, this leads to
  2. Thoughts (eg what if they dont like me?”)
  3. This leads to uncomfortable feelings- anxiety
  4. This leads to behaviour- people pleasing

Therefore, we need to reframe our thoughts and then adjust our behaviour to break the cycle. Firstly look at what you are thinking. Thoughts aren’t facts, they are just musings of our brain resulting from previous patterns. Instead of do they like me, change it to do I like them? Or not everyone will like me and that’s ok because I don’t like everyone and it doesn’t make them “bad” people.

Next- behaviour. Baby steps- so, start saying no to people, just to small things. Then progress to larger things that you genuinely don’t want to do. Then express feelings, eg “im not sure I agree with that, I think xyz” etc

Once you start showing your true self you’ll realise that no one is going to run away in horror or scold you, they’ll probably just go oh right and that will be it. You have to break the cycle and sit with the uncomfortable feelings at first and over time as you express your needs the uncomfortable feelings will diminish. So, adjust your thoughts and adjust your behaviour. In time you’ll create new brain patterns and it will feel more and more natural and comfortable. You will NEVER please everyone all the time because that’s not physically possible. Even the most popular lovely celebrities have people who despise them for their own internal reasons. It doesn’t mean they aren’t good people. The world wont end because someone doesn’t like you. A really good book also is “the four agreements” which emphasises that how people react to you is all about them and their own internal thoughts and it’s very little to do with you. Honestly, free yourself from this prison, it’s very liberating.

Applebobbins · 16/07/2023 08:50

im a recovering people pleaser. I read somewhere that ‘if you are trying to please all people, at least make sure you are one of them’. This really helps me to remember to value my own opinion.
The other thing I do is try to focus on my friends behaviour, who I admire, when they do not people please.. and try to focus on the benefits of their interaction I.e x stood up for herself there, she was firm and clear and I respect her for that… I could do that for me.. rather than the old path my brain used to take into a negative spiral of self doubt and over analysis when I considered expression a real, unadjusted for the audience, opinion.

Dacquoises · 16/07/2023 09:07

Agree with everyone's comments but will add that it can develop from childhood as a fawn response to trauma. Instead of fleeing, fighting or freeze under duress some people fawn and try to get the other person to stop being mean by being overly nice. Pete Walker has a great book on cPTSD about this.

If you feel sheer panic inside at the thought of saying no to someone your body may be remembering trauma from your childhood when saying no to someone more powerful than you felt like anihilation. It's a defence mechanism that can carry on into adulthood. Not an intentional manipulation.

Getting in touch with your feelings that you may have learnt to suppress and sitting with any feelings of panic can help. It takes practice so start small ie 'no I'd prefer to see X film' and be prepared to not go if the other person overrules you, to 'actually that was very unkind what you just said, it hurt my feelings '

WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 09:18

Dacquoises · 16/07/2023 09:07

Agree with everyone's comments but will add that it can develop from childhood as a fawn response to trauma. Instead of fleeing, fighting or freeze under duress some people fawn and try to get the other person to stop being mean by being overly nice. Pete Walker has a great book on cPTSD about this.

If you feel sheer panic inside at the thought of saying no to someone your body may be remembering trauma from your childhood when saying no to someone more powerful than you felt like anihilation. It's a defence mechanism that can carry on into adulthood. Not an intentional manipulation.

Getting in touch with your feelings that you may have learnt to suppress and sitting with any feelings of panic can help. It takes practice so start small ie 'no I'd prefer to see X film' and be prepared to not go if the other person overrules you, to 'actually that was very unkind what you just said, it hurt my feelings '

Ive read about the fawn response and it seems really fitting. If someone is mean i do tend to do alot to get them to be happy or nicer again even when they dont deserve it.

It feels like the few times ive articulated myself ive always been slaughtered by the other person, made to be over reacting so now i just dont bother. A friend recently promised me something, its been over 10 days and yesterday i asked if we could do said thing, they said they didnt have time, so i said 'if you dont want to its ok, just let me know' i was told i was being unreasonable and shouted at. I was only aaking about what they said. Its like people know im a soft touch and cant argue so go into me and when i do say anything they go into me more so ive just learnt its safer not to.

OP posts:
WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 09:22

And since that interaction, i was looking up articles they might like to send as a way to distract and diffuse what happened, wondered if i shoukd say sorry, wonder when i should try talking to them again. Its exhausting because i care alot.

OP posts:
mangochops · 16/07/2023 09:24

It feels like the few times ive articulated myself ive always been slaughtered by the other person, made to be over reacting so now i just dont bother. A friend recently promised me something, its been over 10 days and yesterday i asked if we could do said thing, they said they didnt have time, so i said 'if you dont want to its ok, just let me know' i was told i was being unreasonable and shouted at. I was only aaking about what they said. Its like people know im a soft touch and cant argue so go into me and when i do say anything they go into me more so ive just learnt its safer not to

Would you ever do this to someone?- my guess is not, because its completely unreasonable. These people are not kind or nice are they?- some people get off on lording over others and you have said, they probably do it because they know you'll just take it. Stop taking it! Start getting angry- they're being fcking rude. You need to transfer your sense of social justice and unfairness away from others and start applying it to yourself. I know its easier said than done but if you saw a friend being treated like this you'd probably be horrified. Start being your own best friend- you really dont have to put up with this kind of nastiness. Its not ok. You arent obliged to set yourself on fire just to keep others warm.

WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 09:25

And it wasnt me pestering them or wanting them to fulfill their thing to me. I genuinely wanted to just spend time and do what they suggested. First time ive asked and i felt like a burden doing so, to be met with anger about it after makes me upset because it toook alot for me to ask as i dont like to be problematic or chase people. Just wanted to see them.

OP posts:
blahblahblah1654 · 16/07/2023 09:28

These people aren't your friends if they behave like that. Stop taking it. The friendship isn't worth it surely?

WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 09:31

mangochops · 16/07/2023 09:24

It feels like the few times ive articulated myself ive always been slaughtered by the other person, made to be over reacting so now i just dont bother. A friend recently promised me something, its been over 10 days and yesterday i asked if we could do said thing, they said they didnt have time, so i said 'if you dont want to its ok, just let me know' i was told i was being unreasonable and shouted at. I was only aaking about what they said. Its like people know im a soft touch and cant argue so go into me and when i do say anything they go into me more so ive just learnt its safer not to

Would you ever do this to someone?- my guess is not, because its completely unreasonable. These people are not kind or nice are they?- some people get off on lording over others and you have said, they probably do it because they know you'll just take it. Stop taking it! Start getting angry- they're being fcking rude. You need to transfer your sense of social justice and unfairness away from others and start applying it to yourself. I know its easier said than done but if you saw a friend being treated like this you'd probably be horrified. Start being your own best friend- you really dont have to put up with this kind of nastiness. Its not ok. You arent obliged to set yourself on fire just to keep others warm.

I agree with you. Thank you. I definetly set myself on fire to keep them warm. I admire selflessness in people, i thibk its a lovely trait but its come to a point where im really suffering as i struggle with boundaries and not wanting upset peope or be annoying or a burden.. but god forbid i express myself it always turns out worse for me. Im readjng the fawn response now and can really relate.

OP posts:
HermeticDawn · 16/07/2023 09:38

Excellent posts from @What3words and @FOJN in particular.

OP, definitely think hard about how ‘people-pleasing behaviours’ are manipulative and self-centred, especially as you rejected it in your replies. Because part of the ‘appeal’ of people-pleasing for those who do it is that they often think it’s just an excess of considerateness and niceness towards others, and that the ‘problem’ is only when those others overstep the mark.
That isn’t true.

It’s not evidence of extra niceness, it’s a bad habit like any other, and it’s you choosing to over-invest in relationships in the hope of them giving you a kind of ‘return’ you find validating by behaving in certain ways. You are burdening other people with the full weight of shoring up your sense of self worth.

The fact that you can’t see this indicates the depths of the problem. Look at your reply to @What3words saying it would help you to reframe it as a manipulative trait, not a ‘nice’ one. Your reply said no one thought of you as annoying, only as a ‘she’s happy if I’m happy’ person — you leapt immediately to what other people might think of you, and the desired effect of your behaviour, which is that you are trying to manipulate people into not ‘dumping’ you (by trampling all over your own boundaries). You immediately then go on to insist that you’re ‘selfless’. You’re not. You’re trying to make other people do what you want. That’s manipulation.

And your own experiences show that people-pleasing doesn’t ‘work’. Someone cheated on you, someone meted out ‘disgusting treatment.’ Someone upset you recently. You mention arguments, friends cancelling last-minute and forgetting your birthday. You describe a person who is neglected and mistreated. What therapy will ideally help you explore is that (1) this is as a direct result of your own choices, and (2) how to drop the narrative that your people-pleasing is just a form of extreme niceness and easygoingness., while (3) working on self-validation. What you are trying to do is to delegate to others the work you should be doing for yourself.

I’m not unsympathetic, OP. If you grew up with those scripts (as I did), it can take a lot of work to unlearn them.

Just don’t end up like my mother, now 80 and a lifelong people-pleaser who hasn’t a real friend in the world because she doesn’t have a true self she’s ever shown anyone, because all her interactions with others are based on trying to get them to like her by being ‘no trouble’ and saying ‘yes’ to every request, however unreasonable.

She’s also got 80 years of (entirely unconscious) built-up anger at other people for not treating her the way she wants.

It was a deeply unhelpful way to be brought up, and my sisters and I all had to work incredibly hard to unlearn her scripts about ‘selflessness’ and other people always being more important.

To this day, she visibly flinches if she sees me refuse to do something, or say ‘Can’t talk now’ or ‘That doesn’t work for me.’

WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 09:46

vm.tiktok.com/ZGJ4T9upK/ this is so accurate.

I have registered for iapt therapy and am going to take everyones suggestions and reading materials and try to apply the changes.

Looking over some points i can see that my parents dynamic and past relationships have contributed to this and i look forward to trying to set boundaries instead of being 'appealing' and not rocking the boat for their sake.

OP posts:
Dacquoises · 16/07/2023 10:15

Unfortunately using fawning to appease people reveals that you have very weak boundaries and some people exploit that. I had someone who continually asked me for unreasonable things because she knew I couldn't say no. I got rid of her eventually, should have done it far sooner.

If you work on this in therapy you will probably come to realise that some of your relationships aren't very healthy.

Someone berating you for reminding them of their agreements is completely over the top and not normal. Most people wouldn't do that in this situation. You need better friends which will follow when you are more assertive and have good boundaries.

Also this situation is reinforcing your beliefs that other people aren't safe so for your own progress they need to go! This is very fixable so onwards and upwards.🤗

WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 10:21

Dacquoises · 16/07/2023 10:15

Unfortunately using fawning to appease people reveals that you have very weak boundaries and some people exploit that. I had someone who continually asked me for unreasonable things because she knew I couldn't say no. I got rid of her eventually, should have done it far sooner.

If you work on this in therapy you will probably come to realise that some of your relationships aren't very healthy.

Someone berating you for reminding them of their agreements is completely over the top and not normal. Most people wouldn't do that in this situation. You need better friends which will follow when you are more assertive and have good boundaries.

Also this situation is reinforcing your beliefs that other people aren't safe so for your own progress they need to go! This is very fixable so onwards and upwards.🤗

Thank you.

I agree. I tried to see it from their point of view and looked at myself to see if i came across unreasonable. I spent all of yesterday so upset as they called me rude. In 16 years of friendship ive never asked a favour and provided many as well as overlooking alot of this behaviour from him.

I have trouble cutting off as i dont want to neglect anyone or cause them upset but i am on the receiving end with no mind paid to me. But the last 2 years i have walked away from 2 of my cousins for similar behaviour and comments.

I agree therapy can help address as well as starting to set my own boundaries as i currently obviously have zero. Thank you for your kind works

OP posts:
mangochops · 16/07/2023 10:31

OP- there is a weird phenomenon that is borne out of psychological studies which has shown over and over again that when people do favours for others or put themselves out for others, it is the people DOING the favours that end up liking the people on the receiving end more and not the other way around. You would imagine it would be the opposite but it isnt. They theorise that the reason for this is due to the fact that the giver is making an emotional investment in the receiver and therefore they become more attached to them and like them more. This completely turns the theory that if you do favours for people they will like you more on its head because it doesnt work like that. Thats not to say people arent grateful about it, but in terms of likeability, it makes zero difference to the person on the receiving end. I think this is interesting because we always assume that if we help people, they will like us but its simply not true.

So, if you really want people to like you, you need to start getting them to put themselves out for you!

WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 10:40

@mangochops ive read about these too. Almost like a form stockholm syndrome. I remember seeing a forum about a woman like this and when her husband had an affair, instead of leaving etc, she did more to 'win' his love, changed her appearance to become more like the other woman, tried to be more spontaneous and care free and initiated intimacy to be seen as desireable. Its really sad to be honest.

OP posts:
WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 10:42

mangochops · 16/07/2023 10:31

OP- there is a weird phenomenon that is borne out of psychological studies which has shown over and over again that when people do favours for others or put themselves out for others, it is the people DOING the favours that end up liking the people on the receiving end more and not the other way around. You would imagine it would be the opposite but it isnt. They theorise that the reason for this is due to the fact that the giver is making an emotional investment in the receiver and therefore they become more attached to them and like them more. This completely turns the theory that if you do favours for people they will like you more on its head because it doesnt work like that. Thats not to say people arent grateful about it, but in terms of likeability, it makes zero difference to the person on the receiving end. I think this is interesting because we always assume that if we help people, they will like us but its simply not true.

So, if you really want people to like you, you need to start getting them to put themselves out for you!

If you know any links to these studies or where I read then, that would be really helpful

OP posts:
SpringIntoChaos · 16/07/2023 10:45

I mean this sincerely OP...as you've asked...but I could not be close friends (and I don't mean 'unfriendly', I'm not mean!) with a chronic people pleaser. It would drive me insane.

As others have pointed out, it can feel (to others) annoying at the very least, but at its worst, becomes (or feels) manipulative.

I know a few chronic people pleasers and I simply distance myself from them as far as possible, as I don't want to hurt them by blurting out 'just say what you bloody want ffs!' It honestly drives me nuts...but I do understand that you (and they) can't actually help it...so I have to stay away 🤷‍♀️

Please do try therapy. You can't go through your whole life doing what others want all the time and ignoring your own needs/wants! It's just not healthy!!

What3words · 16/07/2023 10:49

This has tips at the end for stopping people pleasing.

I think it's easy to go down a rabbit hole of getting into the whys and wherefores (which you've already identified) as a stalling mechanism instead of working on stopping it/ recognising it etc. It might be hard to begin with, and you might get lose a couple of unhealthy relationships but the end result is so worth it.

https://www.lizziemoult.com/blog/how-to-stop-people-pleasing-the-definitive-guide

It has a bit on the whys and wherefores as well but the key is to recognise it and work towards overcoming it.

I do wish you all the best with counselling. It's honestly been life changing for me.

Abit like the example you use above of fawning over a cheating/abusive ex you can see so much time/energy being wasted when they could be doing things they enjoy.

I really rate this book as well for being a bit of self confidence.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mindful-Self-Compassion-Workbook-Yourself-Strength/dp/1462526780

How To Stop People Pleasing – The Definitive Guide

Learn how to stop people pleasing and put your needs first. This is the definitive guide to stop people pleasing, unlocking your traits, behaviours and the reason behind why we seek to please.

https://www.lizziemoult.com/blog/how-to-stop-people-pleasing-the-definitive-guide

WaterBaby9 · 16/07/2023 10:59

@What3words @mangochops thank you both. Both reallly helpful x

OP posts:
mangochops · 16/07/2023 11:03

Dont start asking for favours just to get people to like you though- I dont want you to use this to continue to people please!!! I think what this does show though is that the selfless favours you are doing for others have created a false narrative in your mind that you must like them and therefore you have built too much importance around them. Being aware of this is half the solution.

pendleflyer · 16/07/2023 11:16

>>I never stand up for myself even when inside im bursting.
You may think this shows how good suffering you are, but unless you are a total saint this is unlikely to do folks any favours.
That "inside bursting" will pretty much always come through somehow - one of the most common ways is with passive aggression.
In truth am wary of apparent people pleasers - had a partner who in some ways was one for a long time. Apologised to excess (odd behaviour) but then there was an equally odd sudden cut-off in this when she suddenly felt strong, even though I had spent ages trying to convince her to be more assertive. She turned to being downright nasty, gratuitously so, and saying that it was my problem. Arranging anything with her was problematical to say the least - wouldn't say what she wanted, all ended up being down to me, then I would get the sulks when things didn't turn out as she may have expected. And I was apparently supposed to mind-read what the issue was.
In the end, she turned out to be an outrageous malicious bully.
Not saying you are OP but this trait is more complex than might at first appear.
I would look for a decent simple assertion course - it will benefit both you and others. Of course you will then have to voice your wants.
Oh another thing - the ex could be somewhat less than present during sex - odd to say men don't really want this - at least me - you don't want someone who just does what they are asked/told - you want someone present who voices what they want, who brings something to the table/floor/desk - who does stuff because they want to and isn't afraid of showing it. This "assertion" can be present even in a scenario where someone might seem to be being dommed.
Guess I mentioned the sex angle as I think it is related/another side of the coin.
So I'd look to be more assertive - free yourself and others.
Assertion is of course very different from aggression - passive or otherwise.
all the best, the future is yours.

TreesAtSea · 16/07/2023 11:20

Dacquoises · 16/07/2023 09:07

Agree with everyone's comments but will add that it can develop from childhood as a fawn response to trauma. Instead of fleeing, fighting or freeze under duress some people fawn and try to get the other person to stop being mean by being overly nice. Pete Walker has a great book on cPTSD about this.

If you feel sheer panic inside at the thought of saying no to someone your body may be remembering trauma from your childhood when saying no to someone more powerful than you felt like anihilation. It's a defence mechanism that can carry on into adulthood. Not an intentional manipulation.

Getting in touch with your feelings that you may have learnt to suppress and sitting with any feelings of panic can help. It takes practice so start small ie 'no I'd prefer to see X film' and be prepared to not go if the other person overrules you, to 'actually that was very unkind what you just said, it hurt my feelings '

This