How would you deal with this (sister's anxiety)?

[SaccharineDream]

Hope someone can advise, I don't have anyone to really discuss this with in real life at the mo.

I have a sister 5 yrs older, our parents have passed away a few years ago and as a very small family we are the only one's left who know each other. She owns her own home and is married, with one child who is now married himself.

I am not married and rent, by choice, but our circs are a bit different of course.
We get one fine.

In the two yrs before our mum died i went no contact with her as she very suddenly developed a stressful co-dependent relationship with our mum. This was new to me, and it was hard to watch it unfold. Unfortunately her anxiety dominated things to such an extent that it began to harm me.

After mum died we got back in touch and it has been lovely. We are both so pleased to have recovered our relationship and have been there for each other. She still has anxiety but unless something truly awful happened I would love to maintain our relationship permanently.

At the moment i have to move house. I am still living with my ex and will have to rent when I leave. It has been coming since covid and i am behind with my search so need to get a move on as the conditions here with ex are a strain for us both.
I have good savings and am self employed, though business has been slowing since pandemic. Due to this i will need to find a few hours work on top, so want to move somewhere where I feel i fit in and will enjoy. As I have no dependents (our child passed away shortly after birth 17 years ago) I am free to go wherever I like.
I sense that my sister is anxious about me leaving the local town. I hate the place and have never wanted to live here, so am eager to go. She does not try to dissuade me at all, but has mentioned, when pushed, that she is 'scared' of me going, that she fears losing me. I have of course reassured her.

I do feel with weird pressure, and I don't like it. I am a bit of a soft touch so don't want to mess my life up over this. To add to this, even though she has a good husband she tends to always ring me with many problems, and the calls last 3 hours sometimes. I always feel so guilty if i have to work, and cant take a call. But I don't want to just feel like a skip people throw their problems into. I have tenderly told her this in the past and she is apologetic. But her anxiety overtakes her really, and there is a new issue every week. She won't take it to her DH because he is very laid back and her style of talking is more panic/stress based.
It helps her to talk, but this can last hours and i get off the phone feeling wasted.

How would you go about this? I want to preserve our closeness as much as possible, and she has been decent to me. I just don't know if sometimes refusing the calls is mean? You can't set boundaries with this person, she just goes straight through them. I wouldnt say this is harming my life, but it does get me down.

She has just now emailed me asking can she ring me tonight as 'she is worried'

I asked why and she said her pet has a small lump on belly and she thinks it is cancer.
I said go to the vet, surely, but she says the pet wont travel. I can't even parse this, but just offered some support via email and said i have to work later.

This type of thing happens almost every week, she is convinced of a disease or something dreadful, she does chat with her DH but he is very positive and she prefers to go in circles with it so rings me.

How do I move forward with this without hurting her? If i try to discuss it, it goes nowhere. She is very innocent and sweet but denying her the phone calls hurts her and i just cant be doing with the guilt. I know she cant control the anxiety but she doesnt realise it is hard for those on the phone. She also does this to our aunt who is ill herself and it really wears us out. I feel so bad saying this but it is true.

I think it helps her to talk and talk although there is never a resolution. She can talk in circles for hours on end and it just repeats again soon after with another issue.

Anyone?

Apologies for the long post!

I have an older sister just like yours. She lives in London and I lived in Edinburgh so we didn't see each other very often but she would ring me once or twice a week for several hours+ at a time because she had 'issues' with her husband, her ex, her InLaws, her DS-C and her job.

She'd ring me, in tears, asking for advice, told me my advice was sound but never acted on it, then she'd ring me again the following week with the same issues. Sort of wash, rinse, repeat. She became an emotional black hole, she sucked all the joy out of my life.

In the end I told her I could not continue listening to her problems every week when she wasn't prepared to actually do something about them and it was too much for me to cope with. I had tears, suicide threats and accusations that I was a terrible sister.

I hung up, blocked her on everything but also called her local police to say she'd told me she was home alone and threatening suicide. They called me back an hour later to say she wasn't suicidal, far from it, she was in her garden with her husband and his DC having a BBQ. They said that I did the right thing in calling them because you can never know when a threat like that is genuine or not.

I've not spoken to her or her family for the past five years and I have never regretted blocking her from my life. Our parents are dead and there are no other siblings or cousins so now I've no family other than my DH and our three children. We've also moved away from Scotland so even if she wanted to contact me she has no idea where I live now.

Sorry for the long reply, OP, but my advice to you is move away, don't tell her your new address and block her completely. Then get on with your new life and find the joy you so richly deserve. <<< hug>>>

Thanks for sharing that, I have been there in a different way and it's awful.
My sister really isnt having fun though and is very much overwhelmed by her anxiety. If i thought she was being selfish i would react very differently. Anxiety makes her selfish but she does try.

I would prefer to avoid going no contact. We get along well, but the anxiety is destroying her life. She has so much, a great home, money, love, but the fear takes over her and she doesnt think she deserves to be safe or happy.

I need to find a way to 'react' that doesnt create a dependency on me. Talking is her only way of coping but ot goes way too far. I i refuse she is usually ok, but on occasion can get a bit annoyed. I think having a lot of time at home (i wfh) is what makes me seem always available. She is used to that so i must begin to 'fill in some time'.

Some distance needs to be created, but softly, gently.

Think (as well as saying you just can't do these marathon telephone calls) you need to point her towards some counselling sessions. She sounds overwrought and in need of professional help as to how to recognise, unpick, manage and cope around her anxiety - distraction techniques etc.

Does she talk to anyone professionally? As it sounds like that’s what she needs, so she’s not burdening her loved ones with absolutely everything going through her mind at any one time, she sounds like she needs to learn some coping strategies for a certain amount of it.

my parents and grandparents have all died so it’s just me and my sisters, and I’m that person in the middle usually, the peacekeeper and agony aunt, I don’t mind that role as it keeps us all together, but every now and again we have recurring complaints/problems etc, if something becomes abit too recurring and I see an annoying pattern emerge I sometimes change my normal caring response into a round of ‘right, stop fuckin about now’ home truths, because it’s no good for them for me to just placate them, I’d be doing them a disservice if I did, because it wouldn’t help them, and Ultimately I don’t want to listen to the same shit every time when there’s a solution to the problem, they just don’t want to deal with it, but that’s the beauty of being sisters, if you’ve got that bond you’re should be able to be free to say what you really feel without them taking offence, so just be honest if she’s annoying you with certain things and tell her if she’s guilting you.

But if it was my sister I think I’d be encouraging her to get some help with her anxiety. the burden isn’t yours to bear and for god sake don’t change your life around to fit in with her neurosis, live your life for you, make the decisions you need to make for yourself and be the best sister you can be in that context.

Thank you.
Oh how people have tried to nudge her there. She admits to having issues but says it's 'just how she is' and does not have any interest in therapy.
She doesn't need to work as they are both very comfortably off but she dedicates her life to a voluntary job with children and works very hard.

She is generous and does care. She does feel shamed of her self and thanks me profusely during hard times, but it is like an addiction to her. It is bigger than her and she can't control it. Of course, i am not responsible for that, but we do have a good thing and i want to streamline stuff so that we have more balance.

I am due to move away, not sure how far yet, and i know it frightens her. She has got used to me just being there, working from home and always being available. I need to start to reduce that but gently.

The constant talk of disease bothers me as it puts things in my head i'd rather not think about. She is kind of like a child and when she turns to me, or our aunt, she doesnt realise it might worry us, too.
I dont want our relationship to become a dynamic where i am her nurse or therapist. She admires me and thinks that i am extremely intelligent/smart, so this makes it bloody worse.

How do you lend an ear, be a decent sister, but not get sucked into the needy stuff? Aaagh!

The pet is going to the vet in the morning and i am already on edge in case it doesnt go well. She can find something to worry about anywhere. I just dont want to dread my phone going so something must change.

God she sounds like my mother who also says that's just how she is and doesn't need therapy, but she's literally already doing talk therapy with me?! You sound very patient and kind OP.

'She is kind of like a child and when she turns to me, or our aunt, she doesnt realise it might worry us, too.
I dont want our relationship to become a dynamic where i am her nurse or therapist.' Have you tried telling her this (in a positive way - like our relationship is precious to me, and I want us to have a sibling relationship, not a parent child relationship)?

1 piece of advice I have (which might not be feasible) is to meet in groups. Maybe your aunt, you and her, and maybe even her DH. It's easier for multiple people to "redirect" the conversation - not nastily but positively - from all her anxieties to other random topics. Despite initially trying to veer the conversation towards her hypochondria like a murderous bullet train, my mum ends up laughing and having loads of fun chatting about random stuff when we meet as a family or with others!

Not to say she has to / will end up laughing and chatting, but at least the conversation will be slightly more normal

We all live too far apart and our aunt is unwell. Unfortunately she prefers to go through us all in order, so 3 hours on phone with one wont be enough she will just ring another straight after, i have no idea on this earth where she gets the energy from.

I quit my work for the night (I do odd hours) and in my inbox is a message from earlier in the night saying "cant sleep i am sure DH is ill and cant face cancer at the vet"
What does she even expect me to answer to these types of message? It is so dark and bleak I have run out of things to reply.

I have definitely told her i want to be a sister not a nurse, and that depending on me this way will strain our relationship, she says she knows and will try. It is like this thing controls her and she is possessed by it. No other way to describe it.
I am not answering the message, and am tired of it right now. Since talking wont work, I will just have to reduce this crap some other way.

It is like how many diseases or doom laden fears can you have in one bloody day? What does she gain from sending me these bleak and short messages. The ones i dread the most are "can you give me a quick ring?".

I asked her yesterday why she had suspected she was dying from at least 30 terminal illnesses in one month, and did that not make her stop and think? I asked her maybe she might feel a bit better if not presuming worst case scenario. She didn't reply. Just sent me a message about the pet must have cancer. Just to add here, there is no evidence whatsoever the pet is even ill.

One disaster vanishes as quick as it comes and then quickly replaced by the next one, usually 3 at once. When someone is perpetually convinced people have cancer and are dying or some other disaster you cant really tell them to calm down in case of that 99.9% chance they were correct.

Sorry i am just so tired and a bit annoyed at the moment.

It sounds like she gets anxious and needs to seek assurance from someone (you). This is a classic anxiety cycle and unfortunately it won't go away on its own unless she learns how to break the cycle and not seek the reassurance.

This can be addressed in therapy and she can learn coping strategies, but you can't provide that for her. She needs to seek help. As difficult as it is, you are not doing her any long term favors by constantly reassuring her.

I would gently step back and encourage her to seek professional help. If she doesn't want to, you can't force her. She needs to be ready to seek help.

You sound like a very kind sister, but please don't put your life or move on hold. Don't feel guilty!

Anxiety is awful, but it is treatable if she is willing to get help. Again, reassuring seeking is a very common symptom.

I dont want our relationship to become a dynamic where i am her nurse or therapist.

It sounds like this has already happened, and has happened for years.

I don't think it is possible to withdraw "softly and gently" from someone like this. She is a user with no concept of empathy. The worst part is, it sounds like she's never had any "real" difficulties in her life except your mother passing. Whereas you have lost a child (I'm so sorry for your loss), plus you're going through a break up, plus you are taking on more work for financial reasons.

I think you need to write up some explicit rules for her. Something like this:

1.Phone calls limited to 30 mins (set a timer)
2.You will write up to one email response per day (regardless of how many you receive)
3.Sister needs to get a counsellor by September
4.None of this means you don't love your sister very much, you are just protecting your own well-being. This is one of the rules and she breaks it if she accuses you otherwise.

If she breaks a rule, you go no contact for a while.

I do think you need to move away for the sake of your own mental health - promise regular visits and phone calls if you need to. I also think you need to have a gentle but firm conversation with her along the lines of:

Im not a therapist and need to knock these anxiety driven conversations on the head for the sake of my own mental health. I’m not a crutch.

You need to see your GP about medication/therapy and your anxiety is controlling your life

Put a timer on conversations. I couldn’t talk to someone on the phone for an hour - especially not about a cat nubbin - never mind three hours, so set a timer for 45 minutes and then say you have a meeting you need to get to.

‘Light’ grey rock her - I’m not saying you should go full grey rock, but sometimes don’t try to argue with her or reassure her - just agree with her and ask her what’s she’s going to do - don’t offer solutions. ‘My cat has a terrible looking nubbin’, ‘Sounds unpleasant. What are you going to do?’. You are in danger of developing a codependent relationship with her if you’re not careful.

Thank you so very much for these replies. I am aware of the reassurance seeking and had been wondering if i had already allowed her to depend on me. This has crept up without me noticing as her behaviour has ramped up over past 6 months. Prior to that it was a lot less stressful and the incidents were less frequent.

I think at the very bottom of it is a gut wrenching terror of loss, and i suspect she wont seek help because sadly she thinks she deserves pain. This is deep and i wont go into it here, but there we are. It's very upsetting.

Some of these suggested boundaries might work, although at this point I still wish to go gently. I am prepared to communicate to her that i am deeply concerned about her recent fears and how engulfing they are, and that the constant stream of horrors are out of my control. I want to tell her that I will not abandon her but wont be able to always be there or reassure. I will give it more thought.

Never heard of 'grey rock' but this sounds very interesting to be honest. It has caught my attention!
I am aware that since i do not wish to eject her from my life at this point, I am the one who will have to decide how to proceed to get the relationship into a state that works for us both.
I can't help her anxieties and can't be her 24/7 choice for reassurance.

Agreeing with her and asking her what she's going to do about it sounds like a very good idea, i hadnt thought of approaching it like that. I need to hand the power straight back to her, for her own good, so she is encouraged to look at the problem, whilst reducing my 'use' to her as a reassurance figure/nurse.

I very much do not want a co dependency. It would be quite odd since I only want a very typical relationship with her, going out for meals on occasion, a walk, etc. I am only willing to accept an equal relationship. We can share our fears and help each other but not in that particular way.

I hope some of that makes sense, will read about grey rock. Thank you again!

i agree with what @standardduck has to say. This relationship won’t change unless you change it. You have the right to ask for the relationship to be what you need. I’ve done this with a few friendships. It will be met with resistance, your sister gets her way by guilting people into being her support. The real issue is not your sister, but your own unwillingness to change the relationship. Some suggestions for how to do this:

A phrase I love is, “I believe that you have the inner strength to get through this” on repeat. You’re helping reframe the issues as squarely not you problem while also telling her that she must find in herself to support herself.

another is to talk about how she impacts you:

• when you do x
• it makes me feel y
• therefore I need z

Say this on repeat. You’re allowed to tell her this and ask for something from the relationship. She doesn’t have to give it to you, but that helps you be clear about what this relationship is.

Another is to be really practical about when you speak to her. “I’m finding the volume of messages I’m getting very overwhelming so won’t be responding in WhatsApp anymore but I can speak between 10-11 on Friday. At 11 I have to go to meet a friend” and then you talk for one hour and then stop.

Let’s be clear. You listening to her does not help her. You simply enable her. It also doesn’t help you. But at the moment you won’t change the relationship because you are scared of the retaliation. But the way things currently stand don’t work. So it’s up to you to change.

Thank you @Verymodestmouse that is helpful and aligns with ow I wish to proceed. She woudn't create resistance to it, but would become meek, ashamed of herself, and I do not wish to give her another stick to beat herself with, so I will tread softly.
You are right in everything you have written here.

I wanted to post the email I just received:

I can't sleep dreading tomorrow , DH says he doesn't feel right with his headache, I, scared pet may hurt herself because she's frightened, hope I've not woke you.xx

I have no idea why I get these short, sleep deprived fear packed messages. I can't see what she could get out of them, unless it's just reached a stream of consciousness level, but who knows. She has managed to pack 3 different fears into one sentence, now even her DH is in the doom spotlight over his poor head, just can't even imagine for the life of me HOW she would like me to respond to a message that! She is not fully present at all. It makes me feel as if i am not real, although hard to describe that. And if she didnt wish to wake me, why press send!?

I have no idea why I get these short, sleep deprived fear packed messages

Because, I think, she's become so comfortable with you in the role of her counsellor that she's lost all empathy for you. She's not thinking "how will my sister feel/respond?" She sees you only as her sounding board, like writing into a journal. You could generate AI responses and she'd never know.

This is why, from your description, she sounds very selfish when it comes to you. She doesnt treat her dh this way. I'd not hesitate in setting hard boundaries asap if I were you

She does it because she gets something out of it, and you always fall into the role of helping.
I’ve been there, and you gradually become a therapist, and it’s particularly galling to hear the relative say they don’t need therapy as they have you to talk to. Well yes, I thought, but what about me?!
It sounds like it’s causing you huge amounts of anxiety. This is also probably a codependent relationship where you get something out of feeling like you’re helping her. Explore why you need that validation.
Think about what you want. Take her out of the equation. Some people like your sister always need (and get) people to lean on. Your mum once fulfilled that role, now it’s you. Honestly, if you step back she WILL find someone else, a new friend, a colleague… she doesn’t bother her husband because she knows he won’t engage.
So you stop too. Look after yourself and enjoy your life. You have had hardships too (so sorry for the loss of your child) and focus on what you want and need.

How about check her emails once a week. 1 phone call and set a timer for 20 mins. Then make your excuses and cut the call after a cheery goodbye..

Ignore the emails. They are middle of the night brain farts. Make sure you have email notifications turned off so it doesn’t wake you.

I would also say that setting time limits on phone calls will help as well. So after 30 mins, an hour or when you’ve had enough, say something to bring it to a close. There’s someone at the door, I must do some work, I need the loo, I’ve something in the oven etc. Talk soon, bye, hang up.

Her anxiety is not more important than your work. You don’t have the time or money to indulge her in these marathon moaning sessions (3 hours! I’ve never had a 3 hour phone call in my life!). You have enough of your own problems to deal with!

Sounds like classic drama triangle. She is the victim and wants you to rescue. Unfortunately it sounds like you end up feeling persecuted.

She needs to start dealing with this herself, deal with her negative thoughts and anxious feelings. She calls you, feels better but nothing changes. She is the only one who can make the changes.

It's hard but boundaries are your friend. What can you cope with? One call a week? Limited to 1/2 hour? What are your limits? (Sounds like it's her not acting on your advice). This is tough. Good luck.

Good post. You can’t change your sister, OP. But you can change the terms on which you relate to her, and gently but firmly moving things to a situation where you’re only giving what you can handle. Remind yourself that your current relationship is bad for both of you.

It doesn't sound like she's trying at all tbh op....
Meds? Therapy?
I'm guessing no...?

I'd also point out that all human behaviours are to prompt a reaction of some sort...
Including your sisters