How would you deal with this (sister's anxiety)?

[SaccharineDream]

Hope someone can advise, I don't have anyone to really discuss this with in real life at the mo.

I have a sister 5 yrs older, our parents have passed away a few years ago and as a very small family we are the only one's left who know each other. She owns her own home and is married, with one child who is now married himself.

I am not married and rent, by choice, but our circs are a bit different of course.
We get one fine.

In the two yrs before our mum died i went no contact with her as she very suddenly developed a stressful co-dependent relationship with our mum. This was new to me, and it was hard to watch it unfold. Unfortunately her anxiety dominated things to such an extent that it began to harm me.

After mum died we got back in touch and it has been lovely. We are both so pleased to have recovered our relationship and have been there for each other. She still has anxiety but unless something truly awful happened I would love to maintain our relationship permanently.

At the moment i have to move house. I am still living with my ex and will have to rent when I leave. It has been coming since covid and i am behind with my search so need to get a move on as the conditions here with ex are a strain for us both.
I have good savings and am self employed, though business has been slowing since pandemic. Due to this i will need to find a few hours work on top, so want to move somewhere where I feel i fit in and will enjoy. As I have no dependents (our child passed away shortly after birth 17 years ago) I am free to go wherever I like.
I sense that my sister is anxious about me leaving the local town. I hate the place and have never wanted to live here, so am eager to go. She does not try to dissuade me at all, but has mentioned, when pushed, that she is 'scared' of me going, that she fears losing me. I have of course reassured her.

I do feel with weird pressure, and I don't like it. I am a bit of a soft touch so don't want to mess my life up over this. To add to this, even though she has a good husband she tends to always ring me with many problems, and the calls last 3 hours sometimes. I always feel so guilty if i have to work, and cant take a call. But I don't want to just feel like a skip people throw their problems into. I have tenderly told her this in the past and she is apologetic. But her anxiety overtakes her really, and there is a new issue every week. She won't take it to her DH because he is very laid back and her style of talking is more panic/stress based.
It helps her to talk, but this can last hours and i get off the phone feeling wasted.

How would you go about this? I want to preserve our closeness as much as possible, and she has been decent to me. I just don't know if sometimes refusing the calls is mean? You can't set boundaries with this person, she just goes straight through them. I wouldnt say this is harming my life, but it does get me down.

...now she is utterly alone, except for me.

It's interesting that you should say this, given that she has a husband. Is this some childhood fear/guilt?

I think i meant our original family. Not a great way to phrase it i admit. Her husband and son are great and love her very much.

This thread has really shaken me and opened my eyes. Something feels different within me. I didn't reply to her last text, so she has detected something and apologised, telling me to get some rest and speak soon. She must know, but can barely stop herself when it reaches peak.

I feel calmer. I am beginning to see my own part in this, and my desire to care and be gentle with her is allowing her to continue like this. I think we can get things onto an even keel but only if i change.

Thank you to everyone who has helped here. I need to draw back a lot, and stop reacting, however tenderly, to the disease stuff. Next time i contact her i am just going to say that i am having a rough time and can't take anyone elses stuff on top of it. That i need to focus on moving house. She will simply have to deal with that.

Christ Alive she's a bloody LIAR 😡. No way did the vet say all cysts are cancerous tumours!!!!

I really do think she loves the drama, despite her protesting and claims to be so worried and not sleeping for days. She's making this shit up and bloody thriving on it!

I know you don't want a confrontation but the deliberate lying would have finished it for me. What else has she fabricated? Where will she stop?

You have a heck of a lot more tolerance than I, that's for sure.

I've had lifelong issues with serious anxiety, OP, so I'm not dismissing that aspect, but the behaviour she's showing is absolutely draining and a complete head fuck (I've also been on the receiving end).

She doesn't seem to have done much to address it, preferring her family to absorb her worries. That is selfish.

The messy are the vet is so preposterous that she clearly gets a lot of out creating drama.

I think it will be tricky to establish a reasonable relationship with her.

I second the suggestion of getting another phone OP and just have your sister use the number she already has whilst having everyone else use a different number (or visa versa). I did this (for entirely different reasons) to help me put distance between myself and someone else. I could turn the phone off when feeling overwhelmed and back on again when able to cope. Even having it on silent and putting it in a drawer really helped me distance myself. It sends a powerful message to yourself too, to remember that you count.

💐 Please be kind to yourself.

*'message re the vet

Well, all moles are technically tumours so i had to laugh at that. I must have about 200!

I wouldnt say she lies so much as deeply identifies with her fear, and os often sheepish about it later. I can see why you would flip over that, I often want to. I keep my cool because it would be pointless.

At times like this morning i would normally have a tight discomfort in my chest in expectation, but since this thread it is calm and relaxed. I don't owe her my understanding or patience. A revelation! I am just going to slowly ease out of the dependence thing more and more each day. She will accept it as there is no alternative.

I doubt she likes drama, I have seen her when she is free of anxiety and she is so happy. BUT!!! It is definitely a repeat pattern she can not break out of and will not entertain therapy at all. Never has.

I often joke that i inherited her from my parents. Since everyone has simply accepted it all along. Even my aunt, her DH, everyone just goes along with it even if they are honest with her that it's a waste of life. My parents obviously started it, and here we are.
I have to buck the trend.

Not sure about the phone, i dont want to lose my current number, so will have a think about that.

• A second, cheap phone is what I meant.

Oh my goodness, that is quite a sudden drip feed about the loss of your brother. Any 5 year old child would be very traumatised by the death of their sibling. And it being a generation ago, I'm sure your parents compensated unhealthily for it too, in how they helped your sister and themselves manage the subsequent anxiety and trauma. Btw my mother's anxiety also largely stems from her father's sudden death when she was a teen.

It is telling that your brother's death wasn't even mentioned at first / wasn't at the forefront of your consciousness, when it's probably the 1st thing your sister would mention if she were honest about the history of her anxiety. To be clear, as you know, it has NOTHING to do with you and this isn't blame at all!

But I think it all sounds so complex and deep rooted over years (neither of you are young) that you haven't a hope of your relationship pattern / her behaviour changing without professional therapy or at least some psychological knowledge. Would she also be open to receiving (gently written) books on how to stop being an anxious codependent, or would she take it as a slight?

Your choice is very individual, but this is how I would personally make my choice: if there WAS anything else in the relationship at all, even seconds of shared conversation about something else, or traits I admired / loved like her kindness or bravery, then personally I would try continuing the relationship with a lot of distancing (easier said than done, I know).

Otherwise, if there was NOTHING else worth having in the relationship, I would only continue if a therapist or at least some mental health guidance was in the picture - either for her or for me! (My own mother won't get therapy and having some nuanced help from a therapist I trust on what I want, how to navigate this, etc has been very useful for me.)

I know I will get flak for this but I would also advise against taking online forum advice as real life advice. Online posters tend to be extreme / black and white in a way they wouldn't be in their real life, unless they're already commenting from a place of unhappy dysfunctionality. Of course there are definitely wise concepts like about boundaries and mental health, but it's hard to deny that generally – not referring to this thread in particular – people tend to be quite spiteful and love a bit of projected character assassination (eg the LTB masses!).

I’m so glad you are finding the thread useful; some great advice from other posters. You have enough upheaval in your own life without this manufactured drama. I say manufactured as she seems to quickly drop issues to replace them with the new drama on the menu, so it’s not like she is even consistent in her catastrophising. Really hope you get to breathe soon.

It's not exactly that she "likes" drama, but that she gets something important out of creating it. It meets a need that she is not willing to even look at getting met in a more reasonable way (eg via therapy).

When i consider my sister's anxiety history, my brother is always at the forefront.
And no, she would not admit this and will never, ever speak of it. I can't do much about that.

Yes the drama does 'meet a need', in my own unprofessional opinion it is a distraction, she does not like sitting alone with herself, ever. I think she also creates problems so that she can meet them before they happen, so that they can't sneak up and 'surprise' her.

I have sent her an email telling her i am worn out and stressed with stuff here so am unable to take on any other issues at the moment. I have said that I have noticed her fears are increasing recently and that I have no idea how to help. That i care and want her to be happy. I also asked her to consider how she might feel if i sent texts about cancer all the time. That's about all i can say at the moment.

I agree. I thought she might genuinely be seeking reassurance for childhood-rooted fears (but also has that "shoe is going to drop" syndrome – which is why she is calm when "the inevitable" finally happens).

But this line "I dare say she wants to spin me the whole lowdown from every second of the day on the phone later, a text or email isnt good enough. She honestly recounts every second of her experiences to me to the point where my eyes start spinning" gave me pause. If the cancer diagnosis is no longer an issue (vet declared dog ok) why does she still need to go on about it?

To me this suggests a possible learnt childhood pattern where health / medical scares brought her parental attention and hence a sense of security – especially from grieving and distant parents in the wake of a sibling's death. She is 10 years older than OP, and would have experienced the first 10 years of the aftermath.

I still think the health fear is at least partly genuine (close one's sudden death was really destabilising / paranoia inducing even for me as an adult) but I think it could be a mix of factors.

To me this suggests a possible learnt childhood pattern where health / medical scares brought her parental attention and hence a sense of security – especially from grieving and distant parents in the wake of a sibling's death. She is 10 years older than OP, and would have experienced the first 10 years of the aftermath.

This is really interesting as I don't quite know the answer. She was never ill as a child and rarely as an adult. It is a sort of anticipation of it, especially in those she cares about. She prioritises this over their actual wellbeing sadly. Luckily she did not do this to her son.

You have jogged a memory for me. I was around 6 yrs old and went through a period where i could hear her crying in her room at night, for weeks on end, moaning over and over about having breast cancer. My parents didn't give her attention for it exactly, just encouraged her to see someone to talk about it.

She was neither mollycoddled nor ignored, but i think everyone was just really concerned and perplexed. It used to frighten me and i would pull the covers over my head.

I think you might benefit from clarifying your own boundaries - not so much what your sister should/shouldn't do - which you can't control but what you are willing or not willing to do.
So I am willing to speak to her on the phone for 30 minutes a week ( or whatever you want) and then hold that boundary. (" I can't manage to chat any more now, would you like to talk next Friday").
I'm not willing to be upset by anxiety ridden texts late at night so I will mute her on my phone after 9:00pm and only turn it on again when I am ready in the morning.

If you make it about what you are willing/not willing to do and decide how you will hold that boundary then it isn't dependent on her decisions about when and what and how long she can communicate with you.

I find it is sometimes quite good to start a phonecall by stating "Hi, good to hear from you. I have about 20 minutes to chat but then I'm going to have to get on with other stuff." Then you can enforce that at the end of the 20 minutes but they have already had their expectations adjusted ( at least somewhat) and you can be firm about the boundary. " Sorry, I am going to have to go now but we can have another chat next week/month/year. Take care." Then put the phone down.

@EducatingArti Oh lordy we have done and tried all of that. I never answer the late texts but they just come in anyway.

My aunt once joked that she always says it will be a 'quick' call, or 'can you just give me a quick bell?' and it is NEVER bloody quick!

I have started many calls with 'i have to get off in 10 mins as we have a guest, and she will literally steamroll right through. You would have to cut her off!

What's sad is that in theory, I want to be able to take a call from my sister, who i care about, In an ideal world, this is normal. I have felt guilty about resisting her calls because surely any one would be there for their sister? But it isn't that simple of course.
When i went no contact when my mum was ill, it was because i wasnt allowed to just care. I could not offer to be there for them, I was frogmarched, bullied, blamed, set up. I never got a chance to just naturally care for my own mum before she passed away, and that has left me traumatised too.
Unfortunately at that time my mum was damaged by grief and enabled my sister to the point of insanity.

I think you need to get it clear in your own mind - either she is mentally ill and so professional help is necessary (it would be cruel and irresponsible not to get help, as you would for say a broken leg)

or she is not mentally ill and should be treated like anyone else eg for fuck's sake give a rest. I'm going now etc

You really shouldn't have to do this, but from experience it's easier (and less brutal) to abruptly put a protesting person on hold than to hang up on them. After 20mins sharp say you have to go, and if she keeps protesting, say within the next min "I'm really sorry, I have to go now / the guest is here now / etc, but I'll be right back", put on hold immediately and mute and get on with your life, come back a short while later and say as if you're in a rush "I'm sorry (name), I have to go now" and just hang up straight away. Some people will think I'm being ridiculous, but as someone who can't just press the "hang up" button when the other person is always mid-sentence, this is a lot easier.

Hang up if you can’t get her to stop any other way. If she can’t/ will read the social cues then it’s ok to be a bit more brutal!

Sorry - can’t or won’t read the social cues that should say….

I do feel very differently since starting this thread. It has brought so many of my own feelings to light, and I think i have been making excuses for this situation for a while.

I was so happy being reconnected, and she was doing so well, but slowly it began to change, and then recently it is just full on extreme. I do agree now that she is feeding on my attention, my reactions and my help. I very well could be an AI chat bot for all it matters.
The trauma she has from the past is probably too much a part of her make-up now to even attempt to change, unless she has the desire to do so.

I have realised that i am making myself responsible for her problems and my fist mistake was writing up a report for her for work. This was 6 months ago and since then I have written a CV, a covering letter, fix 3 computers, filled in forms, and been called on at all times to drop everything because....drumroll....something bad's happened!

Once, when i didn't respond immediately, she wouldnt tell me for over 24 hours what was the matter. I spent a full dat as sherlock holmes attempting to suss it out, then when I did, she accepted a call. I can't believe I have allowed someone to manipulate me that way. I must have had my blinkers on.

Thank you again to everyone here. Things will proceed differently. I have unwittingly allowed her too much access to my life, so shall begin to obscure quite a bit of it.

And as a pp said, why lie to me about what the vet said?
I initially balked at that comment as it felt so insulting, but it is true. It can only have been to get more attention, to make me worry. I'm quite horrified.

@SaccharineDream

In your later posts you sound so much stronger than when you started this thread - as though a light has been switched on. I really hope things work out for you in your continuing relationship with your sister and that you are able to protect yourself by raising and strengthening your boundaries.

I could not see whether you are receiving any formal counselling yourself in dealing with, in particular, your sister's pressing her own needs on you to your detriment or as I think someone said "draining your cup to fill hers". Perhaps when you feel ready you can get your own therapy to help you in maintaining some mental space between you so you can have a healthier relationship in the future. Good luck in sorting out the next steps for the other things you are dealing with in your life. 🌹

Well done.