Proposal - opinions

[recentlyengaged]

Hi,

My partner recently proposed - unexpected but happy, we have been together a while and are expecting our first child!

I can't help feeling a bit sad that my partner didn't mention to my Dad beforehand, this feeling is probably enhanced due to my Dad having lung c (but doing ok at the moment).

I can't shake the feeling and feel a bit flat, but I know that I'm probably being totally unreasonable - do people still do that even these days or is it an old fashioned tradition?

We've not told anyone yet.

Thanks! x

I would have been absolutely insulted and furious if my husband had even thought about asking my dad’s permission! Sexist bullshit. And I am not throwing “furious” around lightly here, I would be seeing red. And I am in my 50s, I cannot believe people still transcribe to this. Are you going to promise to obey him as well?

For God’s sake, OP, I get that your dad is ill, which is affecting your thinking, but you’re pregnant by and living with his man! If your partner was going to consult your father on major life decisions of yours, would you have advocated him pre-checking having sex with or impregnating you?

This is completely mad and ridiculous. I’ll assume it’s because you want to involve your father because he has a serious illness, but it’s both mad and deeply misogynistic in 2023, not some cute ‘tradition’.

Mine didn’t, because he knew I would be seriously put off by this.

OP congratulations on your engagement - assuming you accepted the lucky man. Congratulations on your pregnancy. And I wish you and your father all the very best.

And apologies for making this about me. In my defence I was provoked, in the nicest possible way, by the earlier post that 95% of couples follow this tradition. I really do not like this tradition. I think it is outdated and sends out all the wrong signals.
My daughter, who I love dearly and try to support always, is a grown woman; a fine, intelligent, sensible woman. Adult women have agency (or at least they bloody well should). And no man or woman should try and give me a heads up about who my daughter is going to marry until she has decided and accepted the proposal.

If it is a blessing/heads up that is wanted, why not ask mother and father together? - assuming they are still a couple, or on amicable terms if no longer a couple. And please, ask after the proposal has been accepted not before.

DH spoke to my mum and dad before proposing, DF said I hope you're not asking for my permission she does what she wants to do.
That wasn't the case, he wanted to propose at Christmas when we would be with them, his parents and DB SIL and wanted to gauge whether that was a good idea, DM correctly said she thought I'd prefer something more private and not attached to another celebration. So he postponed until we went on holiday a few weeks later

I didn't know people still did that. It's very old fashioned

My DH didn't ask my dad and my dad would have been mortified if he did. Both my DH and dad are feminists so wouldn't have seen that as appropriate

Really? You're pregnant, I think the horse has bolted.

Remember the marriage is important, not the proposal or wedding

In any case, if you look at what happens in Jane Austen, the marriage proposal is made to the woman first and then parental approval is sought.

The 95% got to me too! 😂

I know in ‘my circle’ approximately 5% of people asked the father. And those 5% I mean, I wouldn’t be voting with them, let’s put it that way. But I choose my circle wisely.

My DH had a conversation with my dad that he would be proposing but he just felt it was 'the right thing to do'. I didn't care either way and my dad told me after that he said he (my dad) had no say in the matter, it was between my DH and I.

I can see both sides really. I highly doubt anyone having a discussion with someone's dad about proposing (excluding some cultures) isn't doing it to actually 'buy the bride!'

If it's not something that as discussed beforehand, I can fully understand why he didn't do it.

My husband spoke to my dad before he proposed….not to ask permission as such, but just to let him know.

I didn’t know about this but when I found out I thought it was really, really odd.

The fact he didn’t give my mum the same “heads up” that he gave to my dad, just goes to show how sexist a tradition it is.

I have never criticised him for it as for some reason it mattered to him, but from my angle, it made me feel like two men were making a decision about my future like I was a child who couldn’t think for myself. I really don’t like the thought of it.

It’s a really strange tradition.

In fact this thread has inspired me to ask my DH why he did it. I think I will ask him when he’s gone from work.

Not sure where PP got the 95% from, in my circle it's fairly split between "got proposed to" and "mutually decided to get married" but I know of no-one where the dad got a "heads up" before, and that includes several couples who didn't live together or have sex before marriage (so otherwise as traditional as they come)

As PP have said, it's not a cute little tradition, it's deeply misogynistic. Personally I would have firmly declined a proposal where my dad was spoken to before I was.

OP, I'm really sorry to hear about your dad having cancer. That's fucking shit. And I can totally understand wanting to involve him as much as possible.
I think it's only right (assuming you have a good relationship with them) that your parents are first to know of the new engagement (before friends or social media) so I would certainly go together to tell your dad the good news ASAP and let him share your excitement and special time!

I can understand wanting everything to be "perfect" when you unfortunately haven't got control over your dad's illness, but really, your fiancé did the right and most respectful thing TO YOU. If he didn't explicitly know you wanted your dad to be asked, then it was far far safer/better to propose to you first.

The people who think it's sexist, misogynistic etc - did anyone walk you down the aisle to 'give you away'? Or did you walk yourself? Because I've never seen a woman walk down by herself 🤔

I've never been married and think I'm highly unlikely to get married, partly because the whole arrangement stinks of misogyny, from the ceremony onwards. If you look at the health records and life expectancy of men and women, marriage benefits men but is detrimental to women.

Had I got married, it would have been purely to make some legal issues easier. I wouldn't have done so in a church because as an atheist, I don't want to and I find the church model of marriage particularly dreadful. So there would have been no aisle. I wouldn't have wanted my father to 'give me away' either, because again, it's a tradition deeply rooted in women as chattels.

I have seen friends use other models of marriage ceremonies. I've known women walk in with their mothers, for example. Or register office weddings where there is no aisle and no need for anyone making sure the woman gets handed over. Fortunately my partner regards weddings and marriage in a similar light to me, so I can't see this causing an issue now or in the future.

It is horrific and archaic.

I walked myself and I didn't take part in any other misogynist traditions either.

what about asking your mum? seeing as we're asking everyone?

Im not married but would never be 'given away'. It stems from when women were property of their fathers - outdated at best.
Dad didn't 'give' either of my sisters away either.

My mum walked me down the aisle. But she didn’t give me away. The question ‘who gives this bride ‘ wasn’t in the ceremony.

I'm stunned that this is still a thing! I first married 30 odd years ago in my circle it was already out-dated by then.

Because I'm not my dad's possession. Because I know my own mind. Because if my dad had objected it wouldn't have made any difference. Why do you think that your dad should have known you were getting married before you knew?

Perhaps it is hormones, perhaps it's your dad's illness, but honestly - this isn't something that should get you down. I'd have judged my DH more if he HAD asked my dad first, as I'd be worried he was a dinosaur and might be in other areas of life.

Enjoy your engagement, and planning your wedding so your dad gets a special part in it.

While I personally don't see the point of the tradition in the 21st century, if it's important to you OP then be reassured that the etiquette always was for the marriage proposal to be accepted by the woman and then upon receiving her acceptance the man would seek her father's blessing (who by this stage would have already checked out the potential groom's prospects, finances and family lineage). So no tradition has been broken, and your fiancé can now approach your father with the happy news. Congratulations!

@applesandmares

I have attended several weddings recently where mom and dad together replied " We do" and in another instance where the adult children replied "we do". I thought that those were signs of more enlightened times.

@Mari9999 well if women aren't chattels to be given away, it doesn't really matter whether the dad does it, both parents do it, or their siblings do it. It's the same with being walked down the aisle - just because you remove the "giving away" part of the ceremony doesn't negate the history of that tradition, who ever walks you down.

I don't get this sorry. I'd be mortified if any man expected my dad to give permission

My dad was a bit old fashioned (once I got married he handed my husband my file which contained my birth certificate etc - I
was 40), but even he didn't care about having any sort of discussion beforehand!
It's a sweet tradition but I wouldn't or couldn't get worked up over it.
I have always been a bit disappointed in his proposal though. We were sitting on his ugly sofa in his rental and he just asked in the middle of watching TV. We were going to Rome a month later which is where he was going to ask, but said he 'just let it out'. Always kinda wished he waited.