I can’t rely on DH

[Inthethickofitall]

I need some outside perspective here. It isn’t that DH and I have a bad relationship, we don’t, rarely argue, have a nice life. But I just can’t really rely on him because if I’m totally honest I don’t know that he sees me as massively important.

I’m 38 weeks pregnant. He said that he’d be around, he isn’t, he’s all over the country. He said he could take two weeks paternity leave, now he can’t. It is so hard at the moment as I’m really struggling in this last phase of pregnancy and feel weak and useless. I’d just really like to feel like I’m his priority!

It sounds like neither of you really prioritize the other given you don't even know what he does for work. Never having bothered to find out your spouse's job shows he is on the of the lowest possible priority rungs in your life. Now you want him to step up for you but clearly this isn't a relationship where you step up for each other. You should probably both start with being interested in each other's lives and getting to know each other and blending your lives more. You have kids. You can't live independent lives and think there will be support suddenly when you feel you need it (but don't ask for it).

FGS she knows what he does for work! She just doesn’t get why it means he can’t put her first/doesn’t get the details. I know DP is a data analyst and sits in meetings all day or writing codes but if you asked me why that fills eight hours I wouldn’t have a clue. My best friend is a museum curator so I picture her job as standing in the middle of the V&A. Most people don’t know the ins and outs of other people’s jobs.

OP, second pregnancy is exhausting, you get none of the rest you had in the first. Like you I went to bed once my first child was in bed and I barely saw DP, we communicated by text, which is much much harder when you’re vulnerable and need to say “please put me first”. I don’t know what the answer is but MrsTerryPratchet’s advice is good.

When time/money allow I think you might benefit from therapy to help you with being able to express your needs without feeling as though you’re moaning.

I’m in financial risk management and dp couldn’t begin to explain what i do. My tax law brother’s wife doesn’t know what he does because who apart from tax lawyers wants to understand tax law work? Nobody. It’s pretty common to not be able to explain what your other half does in plenty of fields, this is weird take you are trying here.

Most people talk about their jobs with their spouses. Epecially when he is under a lot of pressure and finances are so tight that he can't take time off for paternity leave.

It is all well and good that OP needs him to not travel for work and to take paternity leave but then later says they can't afford it and he already feels a lot of pressure. He likely would lose his job or have a breakdown if he is to meet her needs for support by taking leave from work given it seems he is the sole breadwinner and finances are so tight.

Taking the advice that he just needs to be there for her and she needs to ask for what she needs and he needs to provide it in terms of being present when that could mean they don't have money to cover housing or food or basic needs isn't really a great idea. Telling someone who is already under a lot of pressure to take on the stress and needs of another person (even if that person is their pregnant wife) rarely ends well. Men also have a limit to what they can cope and deal with on their own and he may not be able to be in two places at the same time.

It isn't about knowing the minutiae of each work task, but if your spouse has a high pressure job and is struggling with that pressure - yes, I think it is helpful to understand that and talk about it.

And work takes up such a big part of life, I can't really imagine never talking about it or not knowing what my spouse does or why they are under a lot of pressure or not knowing why they need to travel for work or why they can't take weeks of leave. We would talk about all that. He should feel he can share his stresors at all and lean on her for support - it should go both ways and in this relationship it seems it doesn't go either way.

Legally every father can take paternity leave but its not always paid. But I am struggling to understand by your posts why he hasnt spoken to his work?

95% of employers would say completely understandable that you need to be close to home or he should have organised his workload. It sounds like he just hasn't had that conversation whatsoever.

I also don't buy the it's his type of job response. I do a highly niche job I'm a small team my work would never have that response.

I think you need a serious discussion to find out what he has requested from work and if he has done it formally.

I think your view that 95% of employers bend over backwards to be flexible and support and accomodate the needs of their employees is way off. There are many jobs and employers where that understanding, flexibility, and employee centered approach is just not there.

You are right about your husband not being a mind reader.

This is one situation where you need to spell out in detail exactly what you require and expect of him.
To get through the next few months you need to be on the same page - to agree on the plan for each week for how you are going to be supported.
Only you know what needs doing because you are the one who is used to doing what you now find hard.
Make a list and plan together. Revisit each morning.

Also tell your husband that you want and need to hear him ask how you are often - from his heart and respond in a kind, generous and useful way.
First is the realisation that his work is to come second for a while.

This sounds like a deep problem to me to be honest. Like a conversation you’ve both avoided having. What would he say if you said very seriously that you feel not ok and cannot continue in the same vein? I think if I was in your shoes I would be giving him plenty of space and wondering if my future was with this man. He sounds like a shit husband. What’s he like with your DC?? Does he spend any time with them? I find your comments about not understanding what he does for work quite telling. There’s a chasm of no communication between the two of you which I think makes it unlikely the relationship will last. Have you considered counselling? I would insist on that and watch to see how much he can be bothered. Good luck op xx

This. OP is directing a lot of anger and frustration towards anonymous people on message boards - but taking just an ounce of that energy and directing it towards an absent, unsupportive, uncommunicative partner would be a far better use of time... After all, people on message boards can't change the situation, but the OP and her DH can if they'd only communicate.

I find this so confusing.

OP says she is a timid mouse who never asks questions or wants to rock the boat but is very combative and defensive on here.

She says she is fiercely independent but is completely opposed to leaving a man who seemingly adds nothing to her life.

She says it’s irrelevant to talk about this being the second child she has chosen to have with with man but is ignoring any questions pertaining to how he has been with first child (which would indicate whether this is a change in behaviour or how their relationship has always been).

She states that he is not interested in her and she feels unimportant but she was oblivious to her husband’s stress levels as work and financial concerns.

@Inthethickofitall I think the problem on here is we only see one side of the conversation (he said he can't take paternity) and not your responses to that so it makes you appear like he's made that statement and you've just said "okay" and then walked off, which makes you come across like a martyr (which are hated on MN!) Whereas in reality I'd assume there is a little more complexity to the situation.
However, going forward -
I totally understand why you are ships in the night. I'm only 30weeks and no toddler and I find sitting on the sofa in the evening uncomfortable so tend to lie in bed, but I'd say for one evening you need to make a. Exception because this is an important conversation to have.
Instead of asking him for things, which puts younin a position of weakness, and which allows him to make statements like "I need to work" or "financially that can't happen" you need to ask him for solutions or his understanding of how things will plan out. So something along the lines of:
"Hey, DH, things are about to get real as I'm 38weeks, and I've realised we are ships in the night and haven't really discussed what the post-birth period is going to look like. You've said you can't take paternity leave because of finances, but if you don't what does thay mean for attending the birth (which presumably you'll get little notice for) and return to work? If I have a c-section and have limited mobility for a week or so afterwards, I won't be able to cope with the toddler as well, do we have something in place for that eventuality?"
Then you can offer up suggestions - could you take AL instead of paternity, so it's paid? Dig deeper, is it a case thay if he takes two weeks paternity unpaid you can't pay your mortgage, or is it that you'd dip into savings? Could he take a week, rather than two - you can split it so he could take a week after birth and then another another month to balance the deficit. As him can we afford for you NOT to take the paternity - not financially but measured on the impact on you mentally?
You can also be upfront without being overly emotional- "last time was a bit of a shit show, if I'm honest. Obviously covid made things crazy, but this time around we don't have that excuse. I really struggle to ask for help, but the bits I found hardest were xxxx/yyyy/zzzz. What are we going to do differently this time to make sure it's a different experience?"

He's obviously (? /apparently) an clever bloke with a lot of focus for his work. He should be able to form opinions about his home life too. If he shrugs, says he hasn't had time think about it, push it back on him - well have a think and we can talk again tomorrow (and make sure you do!) Or say, unfortunately I don't have that luxury, you're my partner and the other half in this jigsaw puzzle so I need you to focus on this for the next couple of hours. Let's put our heads together and work it out.

People in small businesses often lose money every holiday and when taking parental leave so have to save up for it and can only take a few days.

Your husband might not be able to take the time you need so I advise that you plan his time off to be at the time you consider is the most beneficial to you.
You need to ask others close to you to support you; find those who will be reliable over a two or three month period.
Do you have any close girlfriends or a sister or cousin who can stay a few days or be called in at short notice if you need help?
Do you have someone for if you go into labour early?

Most people talk about their jobs with their spouses.
Eh, citation needed. I don’t think OP’s lack of interest in the minutiae of her spouse’s work is the problem here anyway.

No but the fact she was completely clueless about their financial situation and how stressed her husband is a bit of a problem.

Neither seems interested in the other at all.

Why are posters so hostile to this OP? Its clear that her DH does not prioritize her or his DC from her factual description. It is also clear that in true british style (usually approved by mumsnetters) she is painfully unable to advocate for herself. Something about this post seems to have driven some posters right off the rails.

If this had been framed as “my dh makes me do all the management and mental load for everything home and child related” most posters would be assuring her that she does not need to spell it out, give him a list of things to do, or accept his dicta about what he will and won’t do.

Somehow because she is expressing, however nervously, an emotional need the tough girls are swarming blaming her for not respecting the all important man’s work.
She is pregnant, they have a rather obvious situation developing in which she will, you know, give birth while they have a toddler to look after. Given the state of the NHS and the scandalous state of the maternity units this is not necessarily going to be easy.

Far from this being unexpected this is absolutely and obviously a family crisis that the dh should take initiative with. I would expect that my dh would have been planning and saving money/time/favors from co workers to wedge as much caregiving time as he can from work. If, for some reasonn, he couldn’t make that leave happen I would expect him to be concerned and making plans independently to take some of the stress and burden from me because he loves me and the dc and the family is a joint project. I don’t get why the Ozp is being treated her like a naughty child who won’t take care of her own pet. She is pregnant with his child.

OP I get the impression that you don't want to ask him for help, you want him to know that you need it. You really do need to talk to him, tell him what you want and how you are feeling. There's no point being angry and sad inside but smiling and saying 'have a good day' as you wave him off to work.

Talk to him, give him the chance to actually listen and do what you need. If he STILL doesn't step up then you will know where you stand.

In your OP you say that he doesn't see you as massively important, but that may well be because in the past you have been independent, done it all yourself, and he may have got the sense you haven't needed him (perhaps he felt he wasn't important to you, as you could cope perfectly well by yourself?)

You probably ticked along quite nicely like that, because you "fitted" together in that way, until something comes along to change the dynamic. Usually children. Now, suddenly, you need some help from him, but he isn't used to giving it, and you aren't used to asking for it. It's a shift in dynamic for both of you, and both of you need to understand that it's happening and what each of your roles are in it to be able to address it.

You feel weak and useless (ie vulnerable) and it doesn't feel very comfortable at all as it's not your usual, default, known position. And you being that will put him on shaky ground too as it's not what he knows either. No blame here on either of you, it's just what happens. But you probably both feel pretty wobbly at the moment.

Communication is key. You've had some good suggestions about how to start the conversation and phrase things so it's not putting the blame on your partner, but just stating what is happening (using "I" sentences) and how it is impacting you. It's really hard to start doing if it's not what you are used to, but the resentment that can build up if you don't start being open about what's going on is like death by a thousand cuts.

So who’s going to be around while you recover after having the baby? What if you have a c section? Why isn’t he taking the time off??

he should be prioritising you already. Why’s he off here there and everywhere? And what’s his response if you tell him how you feel?

OP I get the impression that you don't want to ask him for help, you want him to know that you need it.

This is totally it and thank you for expressing it so well. It’s a shame the thread has gone a bit haywire! I wasn’t expressing myself very clearly but it is hard not to go on the defensive when you have a baby kicking you from the inside and are told he or she should not be here.

Anyway, things were tough yesterday. I think my body is gearing up for labour and exhaustion and pain we’re getting to me and making me feel ratty with DH as well as some comments on here, as repeatedly noted by some posters!

I have to say though this thread has really been weird in people saying things I haven’t said! I haven’t said I’m a timid mouse (wtf?) I haven’t said DH personally was a shit show but that my last experience of having a child was (covid had a lot to do with that!) I haven’t said I don’t know what DH does …

We talk about work in the sense that ‘Mike has moved to a new department’ but not in the sense that ‘now this structure needs to move to this hole and I do this weird thing on the computer …’ 😂

Hi OP. I think i'd be pissed off at my DH travelling all the time and not being round for me/family life, but then not being able to afford two weeks paternity leave at a reduced rate of pay. If he's away so much, but financially it's not providing even an adequate buffer for special occasions/emergencies, what's the point?

How is he in terms of his role as a co-parent to the child you already have? That’s going to be a pretty good indicator of how things are going to be with a second.

@FloweryWowery he will take some time. Just not the full two weeks. I think like most people we have a certain income level and things are sort of set up to reflect that. If he needs to he can take annual leave. I recovered well after my section last time but there are no guarantees, I know.