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Original poster

Should I tell my sister - BIL called 2 year old DN a bastard and a cunt

108 replies

StupidMoneyQuestions · 29/06/2023 23:37

Name changed for this.

It sounds quite stark in the title but I don’t know if I’m over reacting.

My nephew is 2 years old. His parents - my sister and BIL - seem to have it in their minds that he’s a badly behaved child, he seems to have been tarred as a naughty boy. I don’t think he is particularly, he does a lot of fake crying and has tantrums but he’s 2, that’s pretty normal, right? DSis is often very tense and snappy around him, she overreacts to his behaviour in my opinion. I don’t voice this opinion - you can’t really criticise someone’s parenting and maintain a relationship with them… - I hold my tongue and am nice to DN.

My DS is 2 as well, they’re a few months apart in age. I am classic PFB, perhaps - I think the sun shines out of DS. The boys spend a fair bit of time together as they’re so close in age. DN doesn’t want to play with DS quite often - he wants to play with older kids (his cousins are older) and DS is younger. Again, I think this is fine and quite normal.

We went away with DSis, BIL and DN a few weeks ago. In the evening, the boys had a bath together with me and BIL bathing them - this is not the first time they’ve bathed together. DN was being a grump, probably because he hadn’t napped that day and also because it was a really hot day. He wouldn’t sit down in the bath and kept taking toys from my DS.

This is where I wonder if I should say something to my sister or to BIL. In response to DN’s behaviour, BIL said “you’re such a little bastard” and then “you’re such a little cunt”.

He sort of said it with a smile and a laugh under his breath - he wasn’t spitting insults at the baby. And we all have fairly robust language a lot of the time. But I was really shocked by the use of those words, to a 2 year old. I know my 2 year old can understand a lot of what I say and often repeats words - I’m often surprised at how much he understands. And DN is older, approaching 2.5.

Am I overreacting to be shocked and want to say something to BIL or to DSis?

OP posts:
pilates · 30/06/2023 06:38

Only you know how your sister will react. It’s an awful thing to say to his DS.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 30/06/2023 06:42

I would also think your mother regarded you both as badly behaved children when in fact your behaviours were not and otherwise normal for your age.

You do not mention your own father here, where is he?

Weal · 30/06/2023 06:42

Yes mention it to your sister. Why wouldn’t you…is there a potential for her to react badly to your concern?

More concerning than the language, I think, is the behaviour you describe of them both treating him life a badly behaved difficult child. That type of parenting, long term, will have an effect on his thoughts on himself. What a very sad situation!

ShoesoftheWorld · 30/06/2023 06:48

onanotherday · 30/06/2023 02:14

A really difficult situation. Do you think Dsis is scared by Bil or suffering post natal/ depressed?
Either way who is the protective adult? It seems neither. I would be talking to Dsis. 2years old is a tricky age but is also very important developmentally and DN may be reacting to the abuse/ environment he sees.
Talk with her and soon.

'Who is the protective adult?' is the key question here. I would absolutely mention it to my sister, but this seems to me to be a child at risk of, if not already suffering, emotional harm, and I would be considering taking it further. So much anger and annoyance at normal 2yo behaviour from his parents is also deeply worrying in terms of risk of more happening. I think at the least I would want to talk this through with a helpline (NSPCC or Childline) and get their view.

Makemyday99 · 30/06/2023 06:53

What purpose would it serve to tell her, it’s not like he was screaming at his ds in anger, swearing in front of children is not child abuse. What would you want to happen once she knows?

FlamingoQueen · 30/06/2023 06:54

When you mention that your dsis is tense and snappy around him, that rings more alarm bells. Is her dh controlling? Is she scared and on edge on all of the time in case your dn misbehaves (normal for his age) and she’ll get into trouble when her dh hears /sees it. Is she okay in herself?

continentallentil · 30/06/2023 06:59

Actually I’d use it to start a broader conversation. Swearing like that about a toddler is grim, but as you say, he wasn’t being aggressive.

The bigger problem, especially given your family history, is they both see their child as naughty / bad when he isn’t.

You’d need to think about how to do this because it’s eggshell territory, but I might open a conversation about some behaviour your son’s nursery friends have, and then just say it makes you realise how easy going your son and DN are… and take it from there.

I think that’s going to be more useful to your DN

xPissflapsx · 30/06/2023 07:01

I can only repeat what a few others have said, don't say anything because I don't think your sister will care.

born2runaway · 30/06/2023 07:09

You should have said something at the time. You can't now go back and tell a tale as it will
Make the matter worse

Maybe he feels guilty and regrets it?

Next time they say he's naughty, csn you say, oh I don't think he is any worse than other toddlers and you're doing a great job of parenting, just dont have such high expectations as this is a normal phase

Nowthenhere · 30/06/2023 07:29

Yes I think you have a duty as an adult witnessing abuse to challenge this. Your DN only has the adults around to advocate for them, if that's not you then who will?
As an adult you were shocked at the language but you're emotionally developed to digest and realise it's not a child born mean but two adults and the environment they refuse to acknowledge causing unnecessary stress for a child who then acts out.
I would start by treating your BIL like the naughty boy he describes his son. Saying "no, that's not how we speak to people. Maybe have a think about how you're going to apologise."

At 2 years old it is very likely that your BIL and DS have had a traumatic start to parenting and blame their child. Remember that it was 2-3 years ago when dads would sit in car parks whilst mums were having scans, appointments and going into labour without another person they knew and loved to be part of it all. That does awful things to men, knowing they cannot protect their family from pain and not being part of their child's birth.

Likewise if your sister had imagined a birth where she had lots of hand holding and reassurance but she had contractions on a ward with no help until she was about to birth and then allocated a room to be in labour on her own until the last minute where her husband was expected to just turn up, observe her birthing and then leave her and their child to navigate the first few hours of motherhood without them, she too could be habouring anger and heartbreak.

My point is, your small infant relative is going through normal toddler emotions and feelings. Your allowing them to be subjected to this abuse by doing nothing.

Makemyday99 · 30/06/2023 07:35

Nowthenhere · 30/06/2023 07:29

Yes I think you have a duty as an adult witnessing abuse to challenge this. Your DN only has the adults around to advocate for them, if that's not you then who will?
As an adult you were shocked at the language but you're emotionally developed to digest and realise it's not a child born mean but two adults and the environment they refuse to acknowledge causing unnecessary stress for a child who then acts out.
I would start by treating your BIL like the naughty boy he describes his son. Saying "no, that's not how we speak to people. Maybe have a think about how you're going to apologise."

At 2 years old it is very likely that your BIL and DS have had a traumatic start to parenting and blame their child. Remember that it was 2-3 years ago when dads would sit in car parks whilst mums were having scans, appointments and going into labour without another person they knew and loved to be part of it all. That does awful things to men, knowing they cannot protect their family from pain and not being part of their child's birth.

Likewise if your sister had imagined a birth where she had lots of hand holding and reassurance but she had contractions on a ward with no help until she was about to birth and then allocated a room to be in labour on her own until the last minute where her husband was expected to just turn up, observe her birthing and then leave her and their child to navigate the first few hours of motherhood without them, she too could be habouring anger and heartbreak.

My point is, your small infant relative is going through normal toddler emotions and feelings. Your allowing them to be subjected to this abuse by doing nothing.

What a massive over reaction, swearing is not abuse, get a grip. Even the op said it was under his breath & not aggressive or loud. Why do some people think that any behaviour other than coddling & cooing is abusive 🙄

NotNowGertrude · 30/06/2023 07:40

Swearing under your breath is passive aggressive which is a tactic used by emotional manipulators. My exh used to do it to me all the time. It DOES affect you

Original poster
StupidMoneyQuestions · 30/06/2023 07:41

Taking in all these comments, and discussing them with DH, thank you. Lots to think about and process here.

OP posts:
Violetparis · 30/06/2023 07:42

I would also say that you don't want abusive language used in front of your own son as he was in the bath at the time too.

caringcarer · 30/06/2023 07:54

wildfirewonder · 30/06/2023 00:28

The issue is not the OP's child, it is the verbal abuse towards OP's DN.

Show quote history

But you can do something to protect your own child whereas I don't really see how she can prevent abuse towards dn. Several posters have said she could tell her sister but would she care or do anything about it? She can remove her own child from this situation..

VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji · 30/06/2023 07:59

I swear like an absolute sailor. But I would never swear AT my child.

im probably giving your sis the benefit of too much doubt too much. Could BIL be abusive (to her, he clearly is to the poor child) and that’s part of the reason she’s tense?

TheAverageJoanne · 30/06/2023 08:02

Mmhmmn · 30/06/2023 00:35

That's really disturbing language to use towards a child. Well it's abusive isn't it. It's abuse. And doesn't bode well for what might happen behind closed doors that you don't hear.

It's disturbing to use anywhere and it makes me cringe to see it normalised in society and on Mumsnet. It's like savages who can't control themselves.

EarringsandLipstick · 30/06/2023 08:06

Changedmymindtoday22 · 30/06/2023 00:53

Is he Irish by any chance?

FFS.

I'm Irish. And the further comments saying c**t is used colloquially - not in any circles I am aware of & not to children

Yes, some people swear liberally, and may use this word, but it has the same lack of acceptability in most parts of Ireland & is never ok to a child.

(I live in Dublin. And it's very common to hear women from certain parts of Dublin refer to their DDs as 'little bitches', said with affection. I hate it! So I do get part of PP's point about colloquialism. That said, I think that form of language usage will happen in other places eg UK too. It's not an 'Irish' thing)!

EarringsandLipstick · 30/06/2023 08:07

swearing is not abuse,

@Makemyday99

Of course swearing at someone can be abuse. Particularly someone smaller or more vulnerable than you, like a child or woman.

EarringsandLipstick · 30/06/2023 08:09

I think you need to say it to your DSis. I'd be surprised if she was receptive.

I too wonder if her relationship is abusive, perhaps without her true awareness of this, based on how your mother was.

romdowa · 30/06/2023 08:29

Changedmymindtoday22 · 30/06/2023 00:53

Is he Irish by any chance?

I'm irish and live in Ireland and I don't know anyone who would wall their toddler a bastard and a cunt , especially right in front of them. We may enjoy swearing but we know where to draw the line

jojo2202 · 30/06/2023 08:35

oh my good they are just words and said in a jokey manner. i suppose it depends on your sense of humour but seriously it's hardly child abuse.

Sceptre86 · 30/06/2023 08:37

I find behaviour like this really disgusting but I don't tend to swear in general speech. I remember seeing a post where a mum was giving her child the middle finger behind its back (may have been a meme) and the general consensus was that as the child was too young to know what it meant it was fine and a way of unleashing pent up stress. I found it abhorrent. We all have different standards but if my dh used those words to describe any of my children I'd go apeshit. I would tell her but who's to say she would do anything about it or even see it as an issue?

JaninaDuszejko · 30/06/2023 08:59

The swearing in a joky manner in front of an adult might be a way of dealing with the embarrassment of a child whose behaviour you dislke and are struggling to deal with. Do you think they might worry you are judging them because your DS is an easier child? I have some more sympathy for that than them constantly calling him naughty.

If you talk to your DSis I'd frame it as 'how are you coping with the terrible twos, it's hard when they push boundaries isn't it? I constantly worry about repeating Mum's behaviours, do you?' I think it's too late to raise the swearing but not to late to try and help her think about how to parent better.

Terryer · 30/06/2023 09:01

I would have said something directly to him at the time.

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