will things ever improve? givng up hope....

[ohdearohdear]

dh and i have been seeinga counsellor for a few months. One very huge row ( when we hit eachothre) and several others made me realise that unless thigns change, i want us to split up. The trouble is i don't know if i'd be more miserable with out him than with him.

To summarise our relationship:

1.we haven't had sex for 8 months ( he stopped showing an interst years ago unless i iniated it) and a couple of days after the last time (which was about another 8 months since the previous time and i was very nervous) he was absolutely horrible to me - nothing to do with the sex

1. He hardly ever compliments me

3, he shows little interst in what i do

1. he rarely atrranges for us to do anything (he has agreed in the counselling to change this)
2. His temper and things he has said and done before have clouded ( forever, i think) my feelings for him

6 I don't really look forward to spending time with him

1. I don't feel appreciated

BUT on the positive side

1. He is very good with ds ( 99% of the time)
2. he gives me a massage most nights
3. he's not controlling with money
4. he earns enough that i can be a sahm and is happy for me not to work
5. he's very homely ( ie not one of "go out with the lads"

6 he does things round the house

I'm just wondering if it's worth trying to improves things in view of the bad points.

Actually, although lennygrrl's post is good, I would say that lots of guys (myself included) absolutely do things like arrange dinners out, book baby-sitters, buy flowers etc. To be honest though, that's the easy part. Any idiot can do that - it only takes two seconds and a bit of spare money.

The hard bit in any relationship is trying to find the time to appreciate each other on a day to day basis. Little things like making sure you give each other a kiss and a hug and ask how each other's day was (and actually listen to the response!) That is genuinely something that takes a lot more effort when you've got children and I know that although things are pretty good between DW and I, we still have to 'remember' to do this, i.e. try to treat each other as a couple who love each other rather than just two parents. It's all too easy to just walk in, ask about DD, start cooking, put DD to bed, tidy washing, put on TV etc. without really noticing each other. I suspect this what the OP means by wanting to feel 'appreciated'. I guess the question is also, do you think he feels 'appreciated'?

No, he hates talking about it. I think i might bring it up in our next counselling session though

i don't know much about that sort of thing but i'd have thought he should have spoken to someone about finding a dead body when he got home and the effects that may be having on subsequent relationships

he kept it to himself - didn't tell his next girlfriend but for some reason told me when we'd only been together a few weeks. Not the whole story about lying to people about it and not arranaging a funeral just that she was dead when he got home. I only found the rest of it out later when i aksed about it

how odd.

why didn't he tell anyone? or rather why did he lie to everyone?

who arranged the funeral (assuming there was one)?

there wasn't a funeral. he says he lied becuase he said he didn't know how to deal with it

Hm, well it sounds like he may have some issues around the death of this girl. (unsurprisingly, it would have been a major trauma). However, he will not talk about it unless he wants to, and picking away at it would be disastrous. Trying to force emotional openness from someone who is not inclined towards it is not just unrewarding, it's actually unkind: a person who is naturally reserved has a right to be who he/she is rather than being pressured to change for someone else's benefit.

how bizarre - poor him, maybe he felt guilty about her committing suicide while they were together - that'd make anyone feel awful. But his reaction does sound very odd.

no funeral? so what happened to her body? did her family not care? did they ever find out? I don't really know why I am asking these questions - it just sounds so strange and sad

this sounds like such a major thing I can't believe it has never come up in counselling - I would have thought anyone would need serious help dealing with something like this

It does sound as if he has issues with the past - although i dont always think it is a good idea to go over the past and 'blame' it for what is going on now but it may help him especially with the sex thing.

Do you really want him to 'open up' to you? would that make you feel special (the only one he could really tell all this about).

My h has things in his past which would explain some of his worse behaviour - it dosent make it any better but it does help me to understand. My h thinks its all a load of phyco babble and is not really into it though. I have learnt to accept that he is not willing to talk about the past and he has had to also accept that he cannot use the past to excuse his behaviour now either.

Do you think that is what you are really after - you feel you do not KNOW the real him and you want to to be able to feel closer to him?

slight hijack - madamez I am interested in what you say about it being cruel to force someone who is naturally reserved into emotional openess...my dh and I are waiting for sex/relationship counselling - there are a number of issues he just doesn't want to discuss as he thinks they will become more mountains than molehills if he does - I have never forced the issue at home, tho' have been getting more and more frustrated by it, but assumed it would be raised at counselling. In your view might this do more harm than good then? (see my thread (warning - it's long!)

No, keep asking NSIP, I'm intrigued too

All this happened 13 years ago. Do you think it has any relevance to your relationship now? Have you had problems for the whole of the time you have been together?

I just wonder if you are looking for reasons for why your relationship is unsatisfactory for you, reasons to avoid your share of responsibility.

Do you actually want to be with this man? You have been given a lot of good advice but you still seem down on him.

I too think it can do harm and surely everyone has a right to keep their past in the past. Obvioulsy if you both think it will help then bring it up but it could cause a lot more pain.

I am naturally a very open person and it would drive me crazy if i thought someone would not open up to me but then i guess i would not have a long relationship with them would i?

My grandfather would neve talk about the horrors of the first world war and my gran would never ask him as she said some things are best left in the past. If there are issues and he feels the need to share them that is up to him - i do think you raising it in counselling would be wrong.

Would you be willing to let him go to counselling on his own.

Also think TFM has a good point - are you still looking for an 'excuse' for the way you feel and that it may just be that you are not willing to be happy in this realationship?

NSIP: I do think it is bullying to pressure someone into displaying emotion and discussing their feelings in depth when they would rather not do so. It's an invasion of privacy, after all (and just because you are married to or living with someone doesn't mean you have the right of ownership over every thought in their head, despite what some people seem to think).
I'm not saying that people should get away with ignoring a partner's discontent about something because they themselves are contented. more that there has to be compromise, you can;t make someone change for your benefit if they don;t want to. Also, being a reserved person is just as ethically and psychologically valid as airing your emotions all over the place all day long.

yes i do think it has relevance now. he said part of him felt angry that she's killed herself, especially in his house and he felt guilty for being angry about it. He still can't deal with anger appropriately. he thinks anger is a very negative emotion - which obviously it can be but it not always. No, the fact that he might open up about it wouldn't make me feel special - i just hope it might be of some help. In alot of ways i wish he'd never told me about it

Yes, i'd be quite happy with him seeing a counsellor alone

Well said madamez - we cannot 'mould' people to be what we want when we want.

The secret to a relationship is to recognise this and work with it not against it. Also learn what is acceptable to you an get out if it is not.

I absolutely, totally agree with Madamez. To try and force someone to be more emotionally open is not only cruel it could be very harmful to the relationship and the persons self esteem. If you can't live with the person and their 'quiet nature' that is your problem not theirs and, nor should you make it a problem for them.

I agree that counselling on his own for this might be useful, but yes , it is a long time in the past and so may no relevance...

Madamez - I agree with you in many ways I think, and that's probably why I've never really pushed it at home. If ever I am complaining about dh (only ever to my sister to whom I am very close) and she says but blah blah blah needs to change I usually reply that it's not up to me to change him, or to expect him to change, but that I need to base my decisions based on who he is. However I don't think he is content either, we have two kids and our relationship is not great in many ways. I think we need to try to talk before just splitting up...or else I stay but am not content. I'm not the most forthcoming myself, but have started to be able to discuss things more openly in last couple of years and feel it has helped

hijack over

TimeForMe- I agree.

dearohdear- What was your relationship like before? What was it like when it was working? Also, I know you said neither of you have depression so i won't hark on about it but my husband has chronic depression and if he isn't receiving medication, alot of those behaviours apply to him. We've nearly split up several times due to the low libido, no effort into relationship, no appreciation, taking no initiative, defensiveness etc. He eventually got cognitive therapy and takes his anti-depressants religously and mygod!- what a difference. We also had couples counselling and have both addressed our own issues with our pasts (lots of alcohol/abuse in both our families)...just a thought.

But do you think all of this, the incident with the other girl, has any bearing on how you feel within this relationship. You started your thread saying you wanted him to make you feel appreciated and feminine. Do you feel that if he dealt with his past it would change how you feel about him and the relationship?
Also, has your relationship always been like this or is it a more recent thing?

Things used to be much worse but at the time my self esteem was so low and i was so in love with him, i put up with things. I've worked hard to get to how i am now - much more confident, higher self esteem, built up more friendships, etc that i now can see all the problems in our relationship more clearly

I haven't read the the whole post but it sounds to me like you want to feel loved and appreciated and not taken for granted which I don't think is too much to ask in a marriage.

Do you think the couselling is helping? Is there other help he could get - anger managment for example?

Is an element of the problem you and he having different expectations? #

Sorry about the questions just wanted more info before I commented.

NSIP I have just had a very quick scan of your thread and just wondered why you feel the need to 'talk' about it with DH. Just go for it, get stuck in {grin] Don't seek his approval for the change, you probably will never get it if he is as 'reserved' as you say but, you can introduce him to things that may well bring him out of himself a bit. You take the lead and have fun!

Talking about your discontentment in 'that' department certainly won't do his self esteem any good, it could make matters a lot worse.

he went to see someone about his temper over a year ago - but it didnt seem to help. our current counsellor seems much better so maybe she will be able to help