Men paying on dates?

[CadburyDream]

Ive been out of the dating game for so long so I'm not sure what the general thing is with this but I was just saying how expensive dating can be if you factor in having to pay for childcare plus dinner and drinks basically a night out could cost over £100 and been told I shouldn't be paying for dinner or drinks?! I thought the done thing now was splitting the bill? Apparently I shouldn't even be going out with a man who wouldn't pay the whole bill but how would you even know till the bill arrives 🤔?! I thought splitting was the done thing these days?

I probably wouldn’t plan to go on a date unless I spoke to someone for a while first so knew if we got along I wouldn’t be meeting up with people straight away (I know this MN advice)

I’m in my 50’s and would imagine most of the men I know ( male dominated industry) would want to pay for a meal on a first date. I know my DH did and he criticises blokes on First Date who don’t immediately pay for dinner -( particularly when they are clumsy about asking their dates to pay half). Going forward though I would have no expectation on my date paying for everything. I’d rather it be casual sharing though rather than rigidly splitting everything 50/50 down to the last penny. That’s a REALLY unattractive quality.

@Wavescrashingonthebeach I said on a previous thread that a good test would be to turn up on a date with unshaved legs. To see if he is on board with all aspects of feminism or just the bits that suit him financially. And some women may have to sacrifice some things so that they can afford to go halves I would LOVE to see a woman on First Dates showing unshaved legs after going halves. Twitter would crash with the horror coming from all the hypocrites.

@JenniferBooth

EXACTLY! Its the one bit of feminism they love to get on board with and they make sneering comments about well you wanted to be equal.
Then 5 years down their wife is on here moaning that she works the exact same hours as her husband, puts so much in financially but he's a tight fisted twat and doesn't do any housework.

I always offered twice - as in, get my purse/card out when the bill comes so I'm ready to pay (same as I would if out with a friend), they say they'll pay, I say oh no we can split it, they say no, I say thank you. This happened every time so I never actually ended up paying.

I would insist on paying half. Really surprised so many people have said they would expect the man to pay.

To me a man paying sets an uneven power balance. He then presumably chooses the place, the time, and dictates the evening. I wouldn’t feel at all comfortable with that.

The concept puts me in the mind of waiting to be picked off the shelf by a man for a date. Like the bad old days when we didn’t have the money and freedom to make choices. Now we do. I know some women that take the view they pay for nails/ hair etc to look nice so the men should pay for the dinner. Each to their own but personally this would make me feel objectified.

I know my husband would run a mile from a woman who expected him to pick up the tab, in the same way I would run away from someone who insisted on paying. So perhaps it’s a good way of matching people together 😅 a ‘bill splitter’ and a ‘insist on paying’ are not compatible hahaha

To clarify by splitting i 100% mean split down the middle! Anyone who gets a calculator out would be a hard no

@perfectcolourfound didn’t see your comment before my reply - 10000% agree with everything you said

The most common thing is not to go straight to dinner dates. If you go out for coffee or drinks, you can let the guy buy the first one, and then you can buy a second coffee/drink etc. I wouldn't let a man pay on a first date for dinner before I'm sure I want to see him again. But I'd let him pay on, say, a third date and then I'd offer to pay on the fourth or have him round for dinner. I hate splitting bills, feels too platonic.

EXACTLY! Its the one bit of feminism they love to get on board with and they make sneering comments about well you wanted to be equal.
Then 5 years down their wife is on here moaning that she works the exact same hours as her husband, puts so much in financially but he's a tight fisted twat and doesn't do any housework.

^agreed 50/50 can be a con.

If you ever watch first dates on TV a large amount don't offer to pay half, and some women admit they expect the man to pay, and often say no to a second date after the man has said they should split.

This will probably get me a torching...

It probably says a lot about my naïveté as a youngster way back, er, quite a long time ago, like early 1990s back to my uni days - but actually until reading similar threads to this in the last year or so, I had no idea it was a 'tradition' that men pay, certainly for the first date, and possibly all dates.

As a young man I wouldn't have thought to offer to pay for everything and I guess expected a broadly 50:50 split. Why? Because I wouldn't have wanted to (or indeed dared to) imply that my date wasn't my equal. Passing through my teenage years in the 1980s and early 90s meant that I expected women would assume they would be treated equally, so it wouldn't have entered my head to suggest otherwise. That doesn't necessarily mean a meticulous 50:50 to the last penny - one person buying drink and the other food, for example, works fine as long as over a couple of dates it broadly balances. It also doesn't preclude someone who is a better financial situation treating the other (whether man treating woman or vice versa), but in my undergrad and postgrad dating days we were mostly running on fumes financially so generally people were in a pretty similar position of penury.

Indeed had I insisted on paying everything with the young woman I was to spend 27 years with until she died a couple of years ago, it would have been 'destination Dumpsville, population me'. She was truly her own woman and would be beholden to no-one, and anyone trying to force her to behave differently would have received extremely short shrift. You might almost think that her fierce independence and sense of fairness was part of her attraction to me. Now that I'm thinking about my future, in my mind, I guess she sets the standard - any woman who expects me to routinely pay for the privilege of her company can, to use modern parlance, get in the bin. It would tell me everything I need to know about her values, and they wouldn't be the values for me.

At the time this didn't strike me as odd or unusual, it was what I assumed she would expect - which it was - might explain why we got on of course (but she was not the only one - just the one that I settled with - it was normal with everyone in those days in my circles)

I would also say as someone of forty plus quite a lot of years and now dipping my aged, marginally wrinkled toes into the OLD world, I have found this seems to be a perfectly normal and acceptable route with all the people I have been on dates with.

As for those PPs who wonder if I would be happy with unshaved legs and no makeup in a date? I'm easy on the former and pretty much look for the latter. I want to see the real person thanks, can't be doing with some poor artificial facsimile of the real deal.

@WrigglyDonCat

I won't give you a torching, I loved your post and once again love to celebrate our differences instead of trying to force everyone to be the same :)

This thread is depressing.

Not only do some women think men who don’t pay is an indicator of their future generosity in a completely different set of circumstances, but they would not see them again if they accepted something that was offered.

It should level out at 50/50 over time, either by going 50/50 each time, or taking it in turns to pay. Is he going to carry 50% of a baby, get a 50% of a perineal tear or a postpartum hemorrhage, do 50% of the breastfeeding, receive 50% of the discrimination, disapprobation, and systematic impoverishment mothers face? I've seen posts on this board where women have had to save up their rent and bills in advance before getting pregnant because her partner believed in 50/50 and wouldn't support her financially during maternity leave. 50/50 is a scam.

@AbsolutePixels
This this this this this!!!!!!!!!

a good test would be to turn up on a date with unshaved legs. To see if he is on board with all aspects of feminism or just the bits that suit him financially.

I love this!

Everyone has their own expectations in the dating game, and nothing is "right" or "wrong". It proves to be "right" or "wrong" in hindsight.

Personally I am a fan of starting everything as I want it to continue. In the times of my life when I was looking for a partner I wanted an equal, not a "traditional" partner. Offering to pay is a way of filtering out the ones who seem to believe that, if they pay for a woman;'s company, they expect the woman to do something back for them. In general a bit of precious conversation already achieves the aim to filter out these guys, but sometimes one still managed to sneak in.

The kind of man I like is the one who truly sees me as an equal. I am a professional, independent woman with my own money and ability to earn, and although I don't need a man to be university qualified, I do expect them to be fully-functional adults with something more to their name than debt. If they don't have a home to live in (rental is ok, as long as it's not a dinghy flat-share) and they can't afford their own food, that is definitely not the kind of person I want to emotionally invest in. So I won't pay for their meal either unless it's my turn.

I also don't wear make up or expensive creams, don't spend a huge amount on new clothes and barely ever go to the hairdresser, so in my case I cannot say that "I spend a lot in getting ready for my date". I want men to see me as I normally look. I will dress up a notch for a date, and I can rock a dress in a dinner date, but I already have a number of nice dresses and I take care of them, so it's not a massive cost.

My "strategy" when I was dating (I stopped OLD about 6 months ago and my life has improved massively, but that's for another thread) was to try to do my best to attract men with my same values and at a similar stage in life. No, I didn't get a partner out of it, but I did get several friends who I love, and a couple of friends with benefits who fully respect me and treat me as an equal. And most importantly, I got rid of men who would only have been bad news for me had I given them the time of day.

Oh, and if I noticed the man in front of me happened to be a sexist idiot, then I would pay for the full meal/drinks. Nothing better than leaving them without the "and the bitch got a free meal out of me as women do" self-pity rant with their friends in the pub later.

*previous conversation, not precious!

Do you not think it’s odd to compare the value of those things with a few free dinners, like that is in ANY way comparable or in ANY way an actual indicator of how suitable a life partner is.

Honestly someone saying they think it’s nice and chivalrous I can understand. This argument is comical.

Paying for dinner is requisite but not sufficient. It's the first small step towards him proving his worth. For me, it's a bare minimum requirement. I wouldn't bother leaving the house for anything less. I'm cringing at the idea that women are out there going 50/50 on Starbucks.

Why do the 50/50 women feel they have to prove to a random guy that they're his equal? He's either going to respect you, or he won't. That's to do with his character, not whether you get your purse out to pay for £3 coffee. You don't need to plead your worth like this, it's embarrassing!

@KCIII And yet when women post on this board that they are with someone who wont do his share or makes their partner account for every penny they spend on the kids they get replies like "well surely you must have spotted this in the early days" "werent there any red flags" "why didnt you notice before" etc etc.

Additionally, women tend to spend more on grooming which yes is a personal choice but many of these 50/50 men expect women to be wearing makeup etc on dates. Women often have to take an Uber home as they may feel less safe than a man who may more easily take the train. For some many reasons costs mount.

I agree with you and others that 50/50 often doesn’t work out. I think it can, although not always, tell you something about the kind of man you’re dating. I need to make sure I’m with a generous man because I love spoiling the person I’m with so want it to be reciprocated.

If some are for 50/50 that’s great if it works for them I guess. I do know of some decent men who didn’t pay on the first date but are apparently very good and generous in their relationships.

Oh, and if I noticed the man in front of me happened to be a sexist idiot, then I would pay for the full meal/drinks. Nothing better than leaving them without the "and the bitch got a free meal out of me as women do" self-pity rant with their friends in the pub later.

I don’t know if I’ve misunderstood this but struggling with the logic here. I WOULD hate to pay the full bill for “ a sexist idiot” that I don’t intend to see again and don’t see what benefit that would be to anyone?

I’d feel like I was rewarding and encouraging bad behaviour! It’s one thing paying for your half but his too? Nope, no way!
Or did you just mean all your half of the meal?