What's your definition of fair share?

[user1489844432]

I have constant arguments with my partner about equal share of responsibilities and obviously we both think the other one is wrong. So I would appreciate some external perspective.

We both work full time and have one child in YR1.

My partner pays for food bills and breakfast/after school club and I pay for everything else whether bills, mortgage, activities for little one etc.

We have more or less equal split when it comes to morning and bedtime routines with her doing 60%.

The issue is that I am constantly being called lazy for not pulling my weight around housework. Factually it is correct statement. However I have a very stressful job, which I took only when we decided to have a family so we can afford to have a child. Our earnings were similar before the child and my partner said she doesn't want to have a stressful job regardless whether child is in the picture or not.

In order to get some peace I have started paying recently for a cleaner once a week but apparently this doesn't count as I don't clean myself.

I said to my partner if she wants me to do half of the housework then I would expect her to pay half of the total bills. The point is she would need then to go and find either a stressful job paying more or another part time job (in addition to current job) which is less stressful to afford half of the bills and on top of that still do half of her housework.

She said I make no sense at all and being unfair. I appreciate she is tired but so am I just in a different way. I understand we both work full time but at the end of the day if we agreed fair share that each does 4hrs housework for example and then I would only clean one room in that time and she did whole house then I would be told again I am not pulling my weight, so it is only fair in my opinion to apply the same to bills contribution.

The way I see it she is still getting a decent deal here as ultimately part time job would require more hrs than what she spends covering my half of the housework.

Any thoughts on this?

What i find interesting is that the OPs justification for not doing half the housework (or possibly any because the only work he has described doing is parenting) is because he works a stressful job.

But then he goes on to say that in order for him to agree to do half the housework he expects his partner to take on a second job to be able to afford to pay half the bills, and she would still be expected to do half the housework. Despite the fact she would be working significantly more hours than him.

It reminds me of this post off MN, there's a lot more to the original post but this is the relevant part:

Household chore inequity and child care inequality is a form of domestic abuse. It forces women to work themselves into exhaustion and illness, whilst men buy their free time with female exhaustion.

Same time off, same spare spending money. Works for me and DH.

If you hate your job, then as a partnership you work out how to change that. But you don't tell your partner that because you are miserable, you'd like her to be miserable too.

My job is very stressful and so is DH's. I enjoy my job, he changes his job regularly to better balanced places. He likes to trouble shoot then leave! Works for us.

At the minute you seem to have more time off, do less housework and the last question is who has more 'spare' money?

Reminds me a bit of this thread Fed up of lazy entitled husband www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4800298-fed-up-of-lazy-entitled-husband but in reverse

Some people obviously don't have any idea what a stressful job means. It can leave you absolutely drained out at the end of the day. I worked a stressful job and I would come home with barely enough energy in me to sit on the couch. Then I moved the a less stressful, better paid job, with the same amount of hours and my quality of life changed completely.

I think it's very fair that you pay for a cleaner instead of cleaning yourself. And I also think it would be fair if you decide to move to a less stressful job even if less paid.

I think there's loads missing. It could be a chicken and an egg. If she's taking on most of the mental load then I can understand her saying she won't be doing a more stressful job until you're pulling your weight.

Who cooks dinner? And preps and buys the food and make the lists. Similarly how do you split your finances? Have you more discretionary income left after you pay your contribution? Because that's not equal in terms of finances either. At the end of the day neither will be happy unless you've found a situation where both of you think it's fair.

Also depends on how much you contribute to the mess- putting things away, in the dishwasher, in the wash basket etc.

Op, Do you usually have communication issues with your partner?

I imagine she is telling you why she feels she does more by giving examples of inequality. Is that the case?

In your defence you feel drained from working longer hours and you think she doesn't understand that?

Is that correct?

Rather than come to this site can you really try to communicate with your partner to resolve this...involve counselling if needed (much cheaper than splitting up). Even if MN 100% agreed with you it wouldn't solve the issue as your partner would still feel resentment. Her belief must be based on her understanding of the truth, like yours is based on your understanding.

You both need to demonstrate empathy for each other which comes from caring about each other.

Free time is defined as time to do 'whatever you want'. So you are saying that until the child goes to bed BOTH of you are 100% occupied with work, childcare or household. You're not, say watching TV while she cooks for example?

Also why do you have an unequal number of 'free' evenings? is that for night wakings?

I'm not sure he contributes anything. He apparently splits morning and bedtime routines for the child aka parenting. But despite being asked about tasks repeatedly he doesn't actually mention doing any housework at all, except that if he did it would take him 4 hours to clean a room, but he doesn't indicate hes actually doing those 4 hours. I feel like if he was actually doing some housework he would be saying he did it in order to defend himself.

I get the impression you don't do the boring shit as I call it. Very few men do so you're not in a minority.

Bringing in more money doesn't give you the right to avoid the boring shit. And it's stuff like the food shopping, working out what's for dinner and cooking it, sorting out where the kids need to be and making that happen, buying the school uniform, sorting out clothes that are too small etc. And if you think that 'just takes 5 minutes' then you have to ask yourself why aren't you doing it then?

YABU.

How many hours (? minutes) of housework/family admin time do you each do, each week?

Do you love her?

Another joke of a man who genuinely feels aggrieved at having to do his fair share of house work, parenting and life drudgery.

Grow up.

@Skippingabeat I'm pretty sure many of us on what it feels like to work in a stressful job.

Doesn't mean we get to abdicate our childcare and domestic responsibilities, unless actually working significantly more hours than the other person.

How do single men in stressful jobs have food and not get dysentery? Do their mummies come round and do it? Or can they suddenly clean and cook if there isn't a vagina in the house.

I have a stressful job. I struggle. But unfortunately I have a vagina so can't completely opt out.

Your financial contribution doesn't absolve you of household responsibilities.

Do you honestly feel that she is somehow 'working her passage' while living with you?

Wow. Just wow.

Have you ever said this out loud to her, as in "I earn more money than you, even though we both work full time, so expect you to do more household stuff to even up our contribution"

Maybe try that and see what she thinks.

What's sad in these threads is there's always some rubbish reason to justify it. Usually it's because the woman works part time - so she can spend some time with their joint DC - and this is given as a reason for the man to do less. In this case they both work full time, but she should still be apparently doing more, because his job is "more stressful " but it's not really been confirmed if that means it's longer working hours or not.

I bet even if she did get a harder, better paying job, there would still be some reason why household chores parity couldn't be reached.

You mean you didn't marry someone to treat them like a domestic appliance?

Clearly you are doing stressful job all wrong!

What is the salary difference ? I think you need to share the numbers to see if the value you're adding is worth not doing housework

Er, no. Because it isn't the case that the person who earns £x more than their OH gets to opt out of housework. Both partners work full time? Housework is shared 50/50.

Wait so you think if in a coupe one partner works 40 hours a week earning £50k, they are somehow entitled to do less housework than the other partner working 40 hours a week earning £30k? Really?

But you are focused on the money. You both work FT. But you do not consider her work to be equal to yours because you earn more money. The only way you would consider her contribution equal to is if she earned the same money. And only then would you consider doing an equal share of the house work and child care.
Your see her as lesser than you.

Who does what around the house? Which household chores and wife work do you do, and what does she do?

I do see your point about jobs - she gets to choose to have a stress-free job, but you don't have that luxury if you want to afford your house.

I get the impression OP doesn’t enjoy his job at all, he mentions he only took it when they decided to have DC, and feels obligated now to keep it.
The housework could be just the way OP expresses his resentment at the financial situation which shows no sign of changing.
Equally, his wife also seems to resent some things and expressing them in a different way ex ‘the cleaner doesn’t count as it’s not you’. Except we don’t have her version.
Sounds like lots of communication issues, which surely doesn’t help.

Maybe sitting down and establishing (fighting over once and for all) a detailed weekly timetable could help each of you express what is actually bothering you, and in the meantime establish a routine if something needs to be changed.

With within my marriage, the earning of money (and paying for life) and the maintenance of the household have never been linked. Have you tried looking at it that way?

When we got together and for the first 10 years I earned 40% more than him. So I paid 40% more into the communal pot. When we equalled out we paid the same. When I took a career change and dropped down he upped his contribution. As I build up again we will adjust.

From day one, we equally split the household tasks by talking it through as adults, agreeing where our strengths lay, agreeing what minimum standards were and what 'extra' standards were (such as if family where coming to stay). If one of us is very busy at work, I'll ornhas lots of duty bound social engagements the other might do more, but it is always noted appreciated and made up for later.

Don't make this a battle. Life is hard, share the crap together and you will get to have way more fun together too.