No family, how do I do this?

[NotQuiteDownton]

Trigger Warning

Whenever I see the title of the Stately Homes thread I smile to myself.

Growing up I didn't live in a Stately Home, though it was big and gorgeous, by anyone's standards.

However, my parents are champagne socialists. Dad worked, they sunk all of their money into that house. One summer I had a growth spurt and literally nothing to wear. We went to the local comp, where I was bullied mercilessly, until I got to year 10 and I started to be a rebel.

Meanwhile, my parents, both of them, used to beat me black and blue. They broke bones too many times. They called me 'stupid, ugly and fat' and many other things. It wasn't a picnic for my siblings, but I undoubtedly was the scapegoat, I copped the worst of everything.

But this was the 80s, Childline was starting up as I became an adult. Our local hospital told the Police, but nice middle class people with big houses and good local connections were a law unto themselves.

Eventually my Dad retired, his pension is huge.

My DCs are adults now, I brought them up well, loved them as much as any parent could, I never hit them or called them names. They didn't live in a huge house, but they always had enough.

I've got a PhD. I'm not fat. I have been grey rock-ing my family for a decade, DH has been very supportive. I should have done it sooner, but you only know what you know. Since I left home at age 16 I have never taken a penny from them.

When my first DC went to Uni my parents invited them to stay, they paid off student finance and paid them a lot of money to live through University. They told my next DC and the same happened for them and so on. The price? Our DCs aren't speaking to us, they won't have anything to do with us.

DH is upset, but takes the attitude that we have done all we can and that he can wait it out, that our DCs will come round.

Me? I'm devastated. In particular, one of my DCs has said some hateful things to me. That'll be my parent's influence.

I'd always had such close relationships with my DCs, I know this sounds over dramatic, I feel bereaved, eviscerated.

Additionally, I'm peri. I cannot stop crying. I cry in stupid places: the car, work, supermarket, night out, night in, anywhere.

DH is right, that I need to find a way to move on, I don't know how. DH doesn't have any family either, it's just the two of us. After 30 years bringing up children I hate my career and I no longer have any family. My life is pointless.

I know that there are plenty worse off than me.

If you're going to say that I'm a poor little rich girl please don't comment, I am broken.

Oh hey @Inkanta, I know that there are plenty of good people in the world.
Some of the posters here? It seems that nothing I say is enough.

I'm not lying, I feel that I shouldn't have give a full account to answer 'well how could your parents possibly have done this?'
'You must have been a bad parent yourself for your children to be taken in so easily.'

What I am is, naturally, defensive.
Surely that is a good thing, given that I had so many years when I couldn't and didn't defend myself?

No parent is perfect. None.
Though there is a certain irony in that my parents, when previously challenged, have said to me "but you had an idyllic childhood",
It is so frustrating.

To answer those saying "well how did this happen?"
Our eldest started Uni more than a decade ago.
We were paying for their living expenses in full, we made it clear that we could not afford their tuition on top of that. Though we gave them enough that, had they been frugal, they wouldn't have needed a loan for full tuition fees.
Had any of them taken summer jobs (as DH and I both did), that would have given them an additional income.

As I have said, DC1 started Uni over a decade ago.
We did not know this for some years, my parents invited them to stay over for a night during their first Christmas break and it went from there.

This is not something that has happened quickly, it has taken years to get to this point.

We did defend ourselves when challenged, we always took the line that we would be honest, good and kind. Though we did not have the means to give them £40k a year each. Which must be close to the amount our parents gave them.

More than one of our DCs stayed at Uni for more than the standard three years.

If you know anything about the way abusers operate, you will understand that they do not trap someone overnight, it has taken many years to get to this point.
As far as we know, my parents have never raised a hand to our DCs.

We do know that my parents have given them substantial house deposits. Knowing my parents as I do, this may well have been given with the proviso that our children will remain in contact with them.

If you have never been near it, you would be amazed at what, and who, money can buy you.

@pillsthrillsandbellyache and @BanditsOnTheHorizon, thank you, that is exactly what we are doing.

We have taken the decision to leave the door open for our DCs, but otherwise to devote the rest of our lives to enjoying ourselves.
What else can we do?

@user1478172746 I do understand their POV, bear in mind that our DCs had two parents and, without giving away too much, we were far from neglectful.

We made it a point to give them love and to give them time. Only one of us worked until the youngest was at primary, then that one of us worked part time. When one was part time, the other WFH, one of us collected them from school every day.

Our DCs didn't go to childcare,
There is nothing wrong with childcare, we wanted to be there for them, to give them stability.

I'm not giving more details about our DCs because it would make us identifiable and, more importantly, it would make our DCs identifiable.

They are all strong-willed, as are DH and I. That's ok, we love them as they are.

@MorrisZapp read my post today at 20:04 today, that should add at least some explanation.

@TheInterceptor there was no horse?

No one disbelieves the abuse, or any of it, what folks are struggling with is understanding how on having such a close loving relationship with your children, how with the advent of money from your parents and only when they were adults, intelligent ones at that. as they went to uni, that they turned into such selfish abusive people who are angry with you, no contact with you and think you were terrible parents. And all of them, are behaving like this. It’s not even massive sums of money, paid to cut out , lie about and abuse their own loving and wonderful parents.

I understand you don’t want to give detail on this, you only wish to discuss how it’s your parents fault, and that’s fair enough.

it sounds horrific, with your parents beating you and breaking your bones, your siblings attacking you, your children abusing you now too, and all for money, and as they are also victims of your parents, I can only hope you find peace in your holiday home and your decision to spend the rest of your life enjoying yourself brings some solace.

I think therapy is vital for you op. You need to go through and grieve for your child-self. For the brutal lack of love and the suffering.

I had an upbringing with abusive parents - like you I lived in a big house with lots of money. However, I eventually cut all my family out of my life and told my kids a little about their grandparents.

In your position, I would be asking for hospital notes to show the broken bones and showing the kids those.

I was also the family scapegoat and I had to cut contact with them all because they persisted in bullying me.

Cut them off (keeping the door open for your kids) and get some proper support for yourself.

You will find a way forward and deserve to be happy.

@Groggygymdodger thank you, I do understand that people believe the abuse, they don't understand how our loving, kind, considerate, intelligent children were manipulated to the point of abusing us.

The truth is? I'm not completely sure. I can explain how abuse happens. I'm unsure how we ever got from the DCs at home and loving DCs, to abusive.

We do know that the trade off was that they received money and favours in return for their silence.
We were blocked out of the whole process from the beginning.
I'm not sure whether that helps to explain for people?
I can't tell you because we were blocked out of the process from the start.

@Minimalme I would never wish this on anyone. I am sorry that you had a similar experience. My hope is that you too can grieve, and be healed as much as possible.

The saddest part of this saga is that there are 3 generations of a family Invested in wallowing in misery and encouraging estrangement from each other. The OP's parents say that she had an idyllic childhood. The OP says that her children were surrounded with love and care during their childhood. OP's children say that OP and her husband were crap parents

Either there is some serious generational revisionism in this family , or perhaps the love and care were not experienced in the way that any of the parents thought or intended them to be.

Rather than attempting to prove and nurture old injuries and pain, maybe they could all reach a stage where the injured child is not informing their behaviors and seeking validation. Then maybe the healthier adults that they could all become will emerge and they can find a peaceful and harmonious way to exist.

So much anger and pain , and so much time and energy spent nurturing that hurt and pain, as though they were valuable antiques to be passed on from generation to generation. Ironically, while not being valuable antiques, the anger and pain are being passed on from generation to generation. That's quite a legacy to pass on to your children and grandchildren.

OP's children say that OP and her husband were crap parents

Op has never said that her children have said this. Posters have presumed it.

You’ve missed it because OP’s posts are very lengthy and abundant. In an earlier post she said they think she’s dirt. And then in another post she said one called her and said she’s a shit mother.

Yes I saw they said she was dirt. I didn't see the bit about her being a shit mother.

I honestly think people have no idea how people who are abusive - and if we believe OP and I wouldn't be arsed posting if I didn't why bother - can really really go very far in trying to hurt and discredit their victims.

I know you say you haven't done anything wrong as a parent. But is there a possibility you have done something without realising?

I say this because a family member was abused by their parents and sister as a child. And everybody except her and her husband can see that she parents from a place of trauma.

The kids are adults and she is overly attached to them, and she's passive aggressively controlling of what they do. All she wants to do is protect them. So she doesn't see what she's doing as damaging. But they're adults and she's driving them away.

One child has gone very low contact, another has had her on an info diet for the past decade, and the third is in his mid 30s and totally dependent on her.

I'm not trying to accuse you of doing this. I'm just asking if it could be the case.

I don’t want to be insensitive, and the abuse you suffered at the hands of your parents was horrific. I’m so sorry.

However, the way you’re talking about your estrangement from your children makes me think of this: http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html

.

I think @NotQuiteDownton that some people can't comprehend how evil, manipulative and downright determined to wreck lives some parents/grandparents can be. I can comprehend it because I've had some experience with folks like this. The scapegoat scenario is so complex and actually quite a common dynamic in families. It's almost a defense mechanism to accuse you of bad parenting. It is awful to think that someone else can hold power over YOUR children that you have raised and nurtured. In come the expert manipulators and its game over. I hope that you and your DH find your happy place. If you continue to engage with your children you will just be dragged back to your childhood. They know your door is open but be wary. Your parents may ramp it up and use your children to hurt you once they realise you are at peace and moving on. Good luck!

Sorry op but what reasons have your children given you for not wanting to see you? That's all that's missing here. It's quite a big piece of the jigsaw.

If you ever wonder why so few abuse cases are reported, this thread is it.

In addition to the facts; the broken bones, the hospital reports (one of which spoke about the questionable behaviour of my parents) and later, the photographs, aside from the friends of mine who witnessed it happening, there were teachers who are friends even now who bore witness to my injuries and the attitude my parents had towards me, as reflected at parents evenings and calls home.

That's the thing about small communities, people are nosy. Sometimes it's for the good.

@Mari9999 there you are again. I can assure you that DH and I are definitely not 'wallowing in misery'. To begin with, we have always been committed to being happy, sometimes wilfully so. Wallowing suggests that I enjoyed the abuse. You could not be more wrong, and what a truly callous thing to say.

Upthread there was implied criticism that we had not told our children enough about the abuse. Now I am trying to prove and nurture old injuries and pain.

Which one are you going to go with?

When I had my first DC (no comment about their sex/gender), I always bore in mind a quote from a Sinead O'Connor song:

'I love my boy and that's why I'm leaving, I don't want him to be aware that there's any such thing as grieving'.

Of course, we were already a good distance from my parents when we had our children, and that quote is about Police brutality against people of colour.

Still, it was the basis of my thinking: we love our children, let's keep them away from that pain.
They had a largely happy childhood, I rarely spoke about my parents and they rarely saw them.

I did not pass the pain onto my children, I just loved them, normally. The way I saw that my friends, my classmates and DH had been loved.

Which is one of the reasons that I found the suggestion upthread that I should send a copy of my injuries to my DCs utterly ridiculous, even now I would not do that. They know enough, a smattering. They don't need to know more about it. I cannot imagine how revolted they would feel.

@Pallisers thank you for just understanding.

And particularly, thank you for not trying to pseudo-intellectualise my situation.

I'm not passively-aggressively controlling, or any kind of controlling.
My DH would have stopped me years ago.

Because don't forget that DH's childhood was 'normal'. His parents would have said something too. They weren't shy about speaking their mind. Actually they were fantastic, and remained fantastic throughout, until they passed away.

@PousseyNotMoira you may not want to be insensitive, but you are being.

My reason for not going into detail about my DCs is that they are adults, and I do not want to speak for them.

One DC did tell us that we were shit parents, I didn't tell you their reason for saying we were shit. Though the reason ties in with everything I have said on this thread.

@pillsthrillsandbellyache thank you. You are right, my parent's control over our DCs is being done, in part, to hurt us.

We had the audacity to step away from them and this is our punishment. With my parents there is always a punishment, even if they bide their time.

One of my DCs owns a 2 bedroomed flat in London, in a very naice part of zone 2. Their job could never cover that.

Another owns a 3 bed place in the country, and an expensive sports car. Their job is lucrative, but still not enough to buy those things in normal circumstances.

I could go on and on.
If I misjudged the situation at all, it is that I did not see this coming, and I probably should have.
Our DCs our not naive, but neither are they incredibly cynical, life has been good to them. Why would they be cynical?

This sounds incredibly difficult OP.
Are you having counselling?
Life can be very unfair.

How old are your parents?
They will not be here forever.

You're not sorry @MorrisZapp, I am not citing any reason that they have given because my DCs are adults. They should be allowed their own right to reply.

And I would send them this thread, if it weren't for the fact that I don't want them to know how very bad it was for me.

@Blip yes, life is unfair .

The one thing I gleaned from my childhood is that my life really is what I make it.
I was on my own, yes, but, after my first marriage (which lasted less than a year because I thought: fuck that, I'm not being abused again).
I wasn't going to be anybody's fool.

I knew that the real FU to my parents would be to make a happy life for myself, and I did. They have retaliated against that.