Did I 'emasculate' him?

[SugarCame]

So I was on this first date with a man, he chose this small restaurant, we met outside. Going in, the waiter showed us a table right at the front of the place which was very busy. He asked if there was another table at the back and the waiter said 'no'.

We sat down and he told me he called to book and asked for a 'quiet' table (opposite to what we got). The table was okay but the main problem was that it was next to the main door and every time someone came in and out, the cold wind would blast us and that was unpleasant. It was the kind of restaurant where people come to collect take out orders as well as eat in so the door was being used quite a bit and everytime the wind blasted us, he complained.
Service was slow and we were there for a bit of time, the restaurant started to get less busy and I told him a couple of times when he complained that it was okay to move tables now that there were some available, but he refused to, saying that is was too late / we already settled there / it would give the waiter more work etc etc etc. I told him I had worked as a waitress before and that kind of request is absolutely no problem, I could ask myself if he was uncomfortable to do so, but he refused to try and solve the issue and preferred to be annoyed with the situation instead.

So, once we finished our starters and before the main course, the waiter came to ask if everything was okay, if we needed anything...I then super politely asked if we could possibly move to another table and referred to a cosy one tucked in a corner that was now free. The waiter said "of course" "I know this table is very tricky and apologies for seating you here"

So I took my bag and my coat and moved to the other table while my date was there trying to juggle his coat, his drink, his phone, the wine bottle and some plates. The waiter told him a couple of times to leave the plates, the bottle and the glasses as it was his job to carry it and he was more than happy to transfer everything over to the new table but my date seemed baffled. In the end he decided to come to the table carrying his personal belongings and his wine glass so I joked "oh no, I forgot my wine" to which the waiter jokingly said "don't worry madam I will bring it to you" and my date was confused as to who should have carried my wine glass: me, him or the waiter?
Anyway, we settled at the new table which was a lot better and ate our main courses. Without the blast of cold wind hitting us every 5 minutes, we were a lot more relaxed. The food was delicious too.

Overall a good date.

The reason why I'm posting this is because I was the type of woman who would sit there and endure anything in attempts to be 'nice', 'agreeable', 'not go against the man wishes' (especially on a 1st date) and the worst of all: to be 'feminine' and let the man 'lead' even when his leadership was not good for me. Then I would feel angry and resentful afterwards.

Curious about your thoughts.

Yes but was it a nice date? Did you feel a connection?
This is more important than role playing a helpless damsel, no?

Surely on a first date you see yourself as equal? There was absolutely nothing wrong with what you did, and only a complete fool would think there was.

?

You had an equal right and say in where to sit and eat as he did.
I would of done the same.

I'd worry less about whether you emasculated him (you didn't) and more about the fact that he ''preferred to be annoyed", tbh.

on point

Sounds moany and uptight to me. That's isn't such a big deal to have created such a kerfuffle especially on a first date when you're both trying to give the best impression. If this is as good as it gets from him, how's he going to handle a situation where something actually does go wrong?

Why does it have to be a case of emasculated, male, female roles? You just dealt with it differently? You’re overthinking it.

Umm difficult we are brought up to be good girls and as you say let the man take the lead.

In the situation what made you more uncomfortable the table or his reaction?

Would you like to go on another date with him?

Personally if he asked I would give it another chance for a second date. Maybe he was just a bit nervous as it was your first date and he felt he had to live up to a certain image. Just as women are conditioned to be good girls men are also conditioning to certain roles.

However I would be on the look out for how he acts in other situations. Is he calm makes a joke of it etc. or gets stressed.

Most importantly was he polite to the waiters about it?

Sorry to ask so many questions. These were just my thoughts on the situation. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Yes, I’d be much more concerned that your date seems to have defaulted to a form of passive-aggressiveness and complaining, rather than dealing with it, whether that was by leaving the restaurant altogether (because really, no one should be seated at a table so close to the door that they are freezing every time it opens) or just deciding to relax and go with it, even if not ideal. Either way, the refusal to move after other tables had become available seems unattractively insecure and childish.

Being charitable, he sounds as if he’s unused to restaurants, if he didn’t seem to grasp that it was the waiter’s job to move everything but his own belongings to the new table and was trying to carry plates etc himself. Less charitably, I wouldn’t want the task of training a fellow-adult in how to behave in restaurants, so it’s probably not a situation I would seek to repeat.

I dont think you were wrong at all, he sounds a twat and I would bin him off!

What a weird thread/question! Are you needing validation from us?

Of course there was nothing wrong about what you did. Your date was the daft one. But surely you know that and don't need other posters to tell you that?

Sounds like your date got a bit flustered (nerves?) and was concerned about putting the staff out, which is thoughtful of him. If it was a nice date and no awkwardness and no sense from him he was 'emasculated' (which quite honestly would be very off putting) then I don't see there's an issue at all. Of course a woman can speak up and communicate the wishes of a couple in a restaurant.

Have a look at the cool girl monologue from the film :Gone Girl'
My point being, if you change yourself now for him to like you, it will blow up in your face later. Possibly as much as 10 or 15 years later when you are married with two kids.
He then decides he feels emasculated and leaves or has an affair in order to validate himself.
Be real now. If he doesn't like it. Move on.
He sounds wrong for you IMHO

Op, I'm more concerned that you said you were the '' type of woman who would sit there and endure anything in attempts to be 'nice', 'agreeable', 'not go against the man wishes' (especially on a 1st date) and the worst of all: to be 'feminine' and let the man 'lead' even when his leadership was not good for me''

Why would you bend yourself into a pretzel rather than just be 'yourself' ?

Surely the whole point of dating is to find 'common ground' and 'similarities' as well as a 'spark' ? So if you go on dates and deliberately 'mute' or 'muffle' your natural tendencies, you're actually just pretending to be something/someone you're not ?

I can't see that being 'beneficial' for anyone ?

By 'good date' - did you fancy him and want to get to know him better? The Mr Bean act would have grated on me from the off, but I am old now - if you are early 20s or something, social clumsiness is excusable if he was otherwise charming. However, someone who is less capable at life than I am will frustrate me pretty swiftly.

I suppose the more pertinent question is do you feel he was less than the masculine ideal because he didn't deal with it, therefore forcing you to step up? Did you find his fussing and awkwardness off putting? There's really no indication in your post it was a problem for him, so you may be projecting your ideas onto him?

Good point.

I was more uncomfortable with the table, who want to eat dinner with freezing wind blasting your face and food every 5 minutes? In the past I would be very uncomfortable with his reaction too but now I don't care, I'll be myself unapologetically and do what I want.

He was super polite to the waiter and I'd go out with him again.

It is just interesting to observe, because the other man I'm going out with is extremely confident and handle tricky situations with perfection. With him I get to totally relax and he does all the work in leading situations, he is so perceptive, I say one word and he is on it - sometimes I even think he reads my mind!

The guy on the date yesterday is more socially awkward which is totally fine but the point is: I will never put up with things that are annoying me if it can be changed easily.

That is just how some women operate - hard to understand if you are not one of them and I'm glad that version of me is in the past!

I'm in my 40s

I didn't feel an instant physical attraction but he is an interesting guy and there is more to talk about and discover.

Who knows, he might be on the spectrum or something.

I'm more attracted to men who exudes power tbh, but I want to keep an open mind and have fun times even if doesn't lead anywhere. Enjoying experiences.

Of course I prefer a man who will want to make me comfortable. I'm cold (he is cold too), we can move, so why not?

He was more concerned about the waiter getting upset, than our comfort during our 1st date?

I just thought that was interesting...we are paying for a service, are we not? He was unhappy with the table from the very beginning.

I'm not judging him, just making observations.

I've been that quiet, let-the-man-lead woman, and I'm now more assertive. I've also dated quite a few men who are intimidated by my really quite mild assertions when we're out together. It's like there's a conflict in their heads saying 'this is the man's job, I'm the man, eeek, I don't wanna do it, I'm embarrassed, damn she's done it, now I'm emasculated'

It may turn out your personalities are just not suited. I've dated men that would rather sit and seethe than make a simple request like you did. They'd probably rage inside and leave a bad review too! But never shrink yourself to be what a man thinks you should be.

Once you’d moved, and got over the (slight) confusion of the moving glasses etc then did you have a good date, where he didn’t sulk about the table change? If so, no probs.

Whether you're entitled to good service or comfort isn't the point at issue though, is it? The thrust of your post was not whether it was reasonable to request the move in itself, but whether by you doing it not him, you were encroaching on his masculinity. I'm saying if there were no signs of that from him, then that says more about your thinking on gender stereotypes than his.

He sounds annoyingly lame.