What’s going on with my adult son?

[Ooonafoo]

I have copied this over from MH as not getting much traffic:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feeling_depressed/4776243-whats-going-on-with-my-adult-son?reply=125112485

He’s 24 - moved home last summer. Graduated 2 years ago and stayed in uni city after. Trying to establish a freelance creative career. He has his old school friends a pocket money job in a local pub and does loads of sport (solitary stuff - running / climbing). He doesn’t smoke, drink or do any drugs now. He is passive aggressive and hostile in the home. Doesn’t speak just a dark moody cloud - but chipper to his colleagues and friends. He makes his younger sisters walk on eggshells. He has this thing recently where when he is told to do something (reasonable house related) he descends into this whooping crying fit. I walk away as I see it as manipulative and he then rings his Dad at work screaming at him that I am mocking him and bullying him - which is not true - I will have said for instance do not use the jack and Jill shower at 2am use the main bathroom as it wakes your sister who has to go to school.

He screams that I am mocking his mental health by asking him to be considerate to others.

Is he being manipulative or is something deteriorating with him? Could he have something undiagnosed MH / ND that would cause this volatility and rage. My DD is scared of him physically although he has never been violent.

This is my gut but I am fearful of his outbursts and if this would lead to him taking his own life.

He self harmed as a teenager (repeatedly cut his thighs) which he only told me about and showed me recently. He had significant emotional issues when a GF left him and he had to resit exams and ‘didn’t want to live’ - we gave him loads and loads of gentle support and he had some therapy.

His behaviour was very challenging as a teenager at home and we rowed and clashed then. Our relationship was fine when he was living out - but his mood towards the family unit was hostile and volatile when he returned in the holidays.

He has a particular fixation on me and I have apologised for allowing the situation to escalate to become fractious when he was a teenager. I now don’t ever raise my voice with him but any simple request in a calm tone of voice sees him flip into this bizarre screaming state which I walk away from.

This recent (last 6 months since he has moved home) extreme screaming / crying is bizarre - I can’t work out if it’s a very significant symptom of an undiagnosed MH/ND issue or highly manipulative and abusive - so I don’t know if tough love would exacerbate the issue.

We have set him up for psychotherapy sessions as well as private assessment for ADHD but he is not taking these up.

Its causing huge distress in the family especially with my DDs. I don’t know who I am pandering to or protecting. The girls want him out - I am terrified he will take his own life.

I'm so sorry you're going through this OP, it sounds like an impossible situation for all of you.
It certainly sounds like he has been mentally and emotionally suffering for quite some time now and certainly needs some professional help.
However, if he doesn't act like this towards others - he got through uni OK, interacts with friends quite normally, can work in a customer-facing role without losing his shit (I mean, a bar job brings you into contact with some absolute drunken, obnoxious people sometimes) - it's obvious he has some control over how he acts and reacts in certain situations and with certain people.
It's absolutely unfair that you and your DD have to live in fear all the time. Does he act the same way towards your DH or is it just the females in the house he has a problem with?
Either way, I think you've done a lot to help him, tried to put support and opportunities for support in place so not sure what more you can do except maybe, next time he's having an absolute meltdown, you phone the MH crisis team and hopefully they might offer some more robust support for him abd you as a family. It might be that he needs some in-patient treatment?
I know how worried you are about if he'd take his own life, but he successfully lived alone during uni and for 2 years after (happily and successfully?), so maybe if he got his own place it would take the pressure off you all.

When I walk away from the squealing he will ring his Dad who will come running. I am torn to understand if this is manipulative or very unwell as it’s not happening everywhere. He thinks me and the girls ‘hate him’ which is not true - I am always pleasant to him - the girls keep their distance as he is hostile and moody - doesn’t engage in conversation just grumps about.

But the squealing thing is odd. It’s the moment I open my mouth to ask him anything. I have even resorted to writing things down as he says my voice triggers him. He also lies - or mis-remembers - tells his dad that I stand over him shouting at him whilst he is cowered in a corner - my DDs will then confirm this didn’t happen.

If this behavior doesn’t manifest in any other environment I would be suspicious. Have you spoken to any of his close friends to see if they have seen any recent changes in his behavior?

how does his dad support you in this? Are you still together with his dad?

Sounds like you need some ultimatums and boundaries, kindly set but backed up by his dad. E.g. if he refuses to attend MH assessment then he has to move out by XX date.

It does sound like it could be some form of MH condition but unless he's assessed it's hard to say.

Whatever is going on then he shouldn't be allowed to continue behaving like this and making everyone's life a misery. At his age he can move out and get a job or whatever.

As you already know, this is not normal behaviour. It's frightening that he seems to focus all his hatred and resentment towards you and your DD.
I would start recording his behaviour (on your phone maybe?), not just to prove to your DH how things are when he is not home, but I would definitely contact the crisis team and show them his irrational behaviour.
I think it's dangerous to have him at home displaying such alarming and frightening behaviour and at this point would out your own and your DD safety first and ask him to leave. If you can help him find somewhere and help out a little financially, all the better, but either way, I don't think having him in the house us beneficial.
Can I ask how he did at uni? What was he doing for the 2 years following snd why he came home?

Do you think he's struggling with the transition from being an independent student to having to move back home? How are all his Uni friends doing? Why is he wanting to persue a freelance creative position rather than join a company?
It seems from what you have written that he's isolating himself - is this because he's not happy with how things have worked out for him?

He needs to live with his dad. He sounds like he hates women. Incel stuff going on? Please get him out. Your daughter needs prioritising here not him.

It also sounds like you are pandering to him too much. You shouldn't negotiate with someone being abusive, no matter how much he manipulates you and worries you that he'll do something nasty to himself. It could be you he turns on or one of your daughters if you don't tell him. Sounds like he has to grow up OP. Sometimes you have to be firm to be kind. It might be tough but he needs to leave.

If there's a way you can facilitate him moving out, maybe help him with a deposit on a rental or something, then that might be an olive branch to help.

Does his dad live with you? If not send him off packing to his dad's.

You need to protect your daughters. If they are in school, they are still children. Your son is an adult and capable of caring for himself. Regardless of what he threatens to do.

PP is right it could be some dodgy misogynist stuff he's coming across online. Andrew Tate / Incel rubbish. Turning him against women and you.

Also even if it is a MH condition doesn't excuse the abusive behaviour.

Can he live somewhere else if your voice is so triggering? At 24 he’s being a bit of a prat to go and stay with 3 females that apparently disrespect his mental health.

I also think it could be worth trying to record some of the behaviour surreptitiously, for your own good. Maybe then you can show it to his dad so he can understand what is going on.

Him living in your house isn't good for anyone's mental health. He needs to move out. He can behave himself when he is with other people and if he thinks you trigger him than it's time he moved away. What was he like when he was visiting, when he was living at uni? What kind of drugs was he taking and for how long?

ND difficulties would have been present from a young age. MH stuff it sounds like is ongoing from teen years, do you know what triggered that (if there was a trigger) you don't have to share that here.

Are you and his dad together? If he is unable to move out himself would it be possible for his dad to temporarily move into a flat with him for a while and help out financially then as his MH and independence improves move back home.

It sounds like he has a real issue with females, how was he with female teachers, colleagues and friends or is it just yourself and his sisters he has issue with?

I'd also be concerned about incel ideology - it's one of the most significant forms of radicalisation in the UK at present.

He doesn’t smoke, drink or do any drugs now.

Has he taken drugs in the past?

What happens when he calls his dad?

Have you both tried to talk to him? If not then do this away from the family home. Maybe a walk in the park.

If your voice triggers him, he needs to move out, doesn't he? I mean, there is literally no other solution. You can't be silent forever and your girls can't walk on eggshells in their own home.

Hes clearly not the great creative he thinks he is, so he needs to sort his life out, find a place to live and get a real job. Possibly he needs MH treatment, possibly he just needs to stop watching Andrew Tate videos.

I

Doesn’t speak just a dark moody cloud - but chipper to his colleagues and friends. He makes his younger sisters walk on eggshells.

Its causing huge distress in the family especially with my DDs. I don’t know who I am pandering to or protecting. The girls want him out - I am terrified he will take his own life.

He sounds more manipulative than troubled. He's capable of interacting reasonably when he chooses to, with friends & colleagues, but has learned that acting out at home by producing screaming histrionics gets him his own way.

As he won't accept the therapeutic help you have arranged for him, all you can do is protect your daughters. Why should they be forced to live with a grown man who emotionally terrorises the entire household?

I doubt he will commit suicide.
Putting a hard boundary in place instead of continuing to enable him is the only option you have left that has any hope of changing his behaviour. Let alone protecting his sisters.

When I walk away from the squealing he will ring his Dad who will come running.
Do you & his dad still live together?
If not, send him to his dad's to live.
He should not be allowed to blight your daughter's home lives (& yours!)any further.

Yes we do still live together.

Oh! I had thought not, as DS's behaviour seems to be an unknown quantity to DH, as he runs to comfort his son every time DS raises another fictitious complaint about you.

You BOTH need to stop pandering to these tantrums, & DS needs to move out.
Never mind "trying to start a freelance creative career", he can do that in his spare time, like every other freelance had to.
He needs a full time paying job so he can support a roof over his own head.

Why does his dad come running to a 24 year old man?

What about his daughters & you? Is he not concerned? It’s not fair that 3 people have to walk on eggshells for a grown man.

Your son may well have MH issues but that doesn’t give him free rain to behave badly.

Honestly I think it sounds manipulative as fuck. It's very convenient that it's all the females who are triggering him and who he feels happy to treat like shit, isn't it.

I think regardless of if he's being an ass or if it's mental health, firm, calm and consistent boundaries will be helpful.

You haven't yet answered what his dad does when your son rings him?

Are you sure he's not on drugs?

It sounds... convenient. It also sounds abusive. It looks very very manipulative because if he can handle himself in the presence of others, then that is really good sign he can manage himself but he is choosing not to. He chooses to squeal, he chooses to "hate you", and he chooses "to ring his father".

It sounds like he should leave before you have an incident at home, where he decides that you should be leaving first.