What’s going on with my adult son?

[Ooonafoo]

I have copied this over from MH as not getting much traffic:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feeling_depressed/4776243-whats-going-on-with-my-adult-son?reply=125112485

He’s 24 - moved home last summer. Graduated 2 years ago and stayed in uni city after. Trying to establish a freelance creative career. He has his old school friends a pocket money job in a local pub and does loads of sport (solitary stuff - running / climbing). He doesn’t smoke, drink or do any drugs now. He is passive aggressive and hostile in the home. Doesn’t speak just a dark moody cloud - but chipper to his colleagues and friends. He makes his younger sisters walk on eggshells. He has this thing recently where when he is told to do something (reasonable house related) he descends into this whooping crying fit. I walk away as I see it as manipulative and he then rings his Dad at work screaming at him that I am mocking him and bullying him - which is not true - I will have said for instance do not use the jack and Jill shower at 2am use the main bathroom as it wakes your sister who has to go to school.

He screams that I am mocking his mental health by asking him to be considerate to others.

Is he being manipulative or is something deteriorating with him? Could he have something undiagnosed MH / ND that would cause this volatility and rage. My DD is scared of him physically although he has never been violent.

This is my gut but I am fearful of his outbursts and if this would lead to him taking his own life.

He self harmed as a teenager (repeatedly cut his thighs) which he only told me about and showed me recently. He had significant emotional issues when a GF left him and he had to resit exams and ‘didn’t want to live’ - we gave him loads and loads of gentle support and he had some therapy.

His behaviour was very challenging as a teenager at home and we rowed and clashed then. Our relationship was fine when he was living out - but his mood towards the family unit was hostile and volatile when he returned in the holidays.

He has a particular fixation on me and I have apologised for allowing the situation to escalate to become fractious when he was a teenager. I now don’t ever raise my voice with him but any simple request in a calm tone of voice sees him flip into this bizarre screaming state which I walk away from.

This recent (last 6 months since he has moved home) extreme screaming / crying is bizarre - I can’t work out if it’s a very significant symptom of an undiagnosed MH/ND issue or highly manipulative and abusive - so I don’t know if tough love would exacerbate the issue.

We have set him up for psychotherapy sessions as well as private assessment for ADHD but he is not taking these up.

Its causing huge distress in the family especially with my DDs. I don’t know who I am pandering to or protecting. The girls want him out - I am terrified he will take his own life.

it does sound like autism overwhelm, with anxiety causing controlling behaviours. Still, you do not have to accept this. I would sit down with DH and son, outline that his overreacting behaviour is pushing his sisters and yourself away. He has a choice between cooperating with an assessment and moving out of the family home. You are not willing to continue as you are as this is detrimental to his mental health, his sisters childhoods and your well-being. Also read the riot act to DH, he sounds weak and of no support.

Sounds like a narcissist who when challenged, experiences narcissistic injury and meltdown. Like you said, he can be normal to everyone except his family.

https://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder/narcissistic-collapse

If you don't leave or get him to leave you might loose your daughters.

Are you able to afford to help him rent a room somewhere?

Massive , We Need Talk About Kevin vibes here. He hates your voice! But still lives with you.
Your daughters don't want to be around him. Have you read the outcome of that based on real circumstances book ?

You should NEVER let progressive , leftist child pandering dangerous ideology stop you from your own mothering instincts. Who needs protection, your aggressive son or your innocent daughters. Don't let political correctness cost you your family. Get the son out, then some therapy if he wants. But most importantly ,get him out.

Both your husband and your son are showing your daughters that they are well below men on the hierarchy of importance. You need to protect them from thinking this is okay because it's these kind of behaviours that make it harder for women to understand when they are in an abusive relationship, because they are used to being put last and treading on eggshells. You need to protect them at this stage because your DS refuses to engage with any help

Your DH needs to be on board with you. He needs to realise if he doesn't have your back over your son then you and girls need to go. Or him and son need to.

I'd try councilling with DH make sure he knows how you feel.

Did I read you have two daughters?
I'd swap the bedrooms round so the girls are sharing the jack n jill.

That forces him to stop using it. And gives the girls space away from him.

The level of out of control and in your face rage is completely unacceptable. If it is undiagnosed autism that is one thing but he can’t claim ‘mental health’ as an excuse and refuse a diagnosis and treatment plan. If it is a personality disorder (what used to be called cluster b) there is really no cure as such because the hard, faithful, determined work is probably not something he can or will do. Previous posters are correct that you must prioritize your daughters.

i will add that the self harming behaviors and specifically cutting on the thighs might have been a sign of early childhood sexual trauma but regardless of the etiology his current anger with you is not safe.

He is a dangerously misogynistic man and you should protect yourself and your daughter from him.

I grew up with a brother like this. Get him out of your home.

Does he watch the sort of stuff Andrew Tate puts out? His attitude to women and the bodybuilding might mean he's been sucked into something like that?

Is it feasible at all for you and your daughters to move out to a safer space? Do you have parents or siblings who might take you in?

He has learned from your husband that you are to be disrespected, ignored and manipulated. That combined with an obvious MH condition has manifested into this very volatile situation. The only resolution I can see is that both of them leave, because while ever your husband is enabling and condoning your Sons behaviour, things will only get worse.

He sees you as weak, an easy target, and is probably subconsciously very angry at you for allowing your husband to treat you this way.

He needs to movE out ASAP. I worry for your safety.
I would get your DH to take charge of the situation by arranging for him to move out, arranging a MH assessment and arranging therapy/medication.
you need to put yourself and your girls first

Nothing is going to change while your husband continues to infantilise him and undermine you. His parenting approach might be connected to your son's challenging behaviour.
personally I'd be looking to live apart from both these men with your DDs if your husband can't change.

perhaps speak to your GP and maybe Women’s Aid or domestic abuse expert - if he starts accusing you of domestic abuse which he sort of is already and his DF backs him you could end up in a difficult position.
can you afford to pay for separate accommodation for him possibly with DH.

He needs to move out. Maybe he has a diagnosis (his behaviour is terrible!), maybe he doesn’t, but I just don’t buy we’re doing our children a favour by letting them stay at home indefinitely. Yes it’s expensive and depressing out there but independence is such a key factor to achieving adulthood. If he takes showers in the middle of the night in an apartment complex he’ll have his neighbours after him, if he tried screaming in their faces they’d call the police. Real consequences work, and you’ve tried but it doesn’t do any good when DH undermines you - only makes it worse.

I think him getting his own place would be better for everyone including himself.

Posters are right about Andrew Tate projecting fantasist views of life, which might appeal to young men, with strong misogynistic rhetoric. The guy crops up on social media even mine so much I block him but he’s like a vicious Komodo dragon that comes back from the dead over and over again reappears no matter how much you block him.

My friends hubby however had Borderline PD way before Andrew Tate and he believed he was entitled to sex (lack of empathy - very often conflated with narc traits) meant that he sought sex 1 day after she was home from birth and had had an episiotomy. That was pure lack of empathy conflated with psychopathy. It’s like opening a surgical wound. Sense of entitlement is what lies behind misogyny too.

He too was into bodybuilding. Perhaps because the self is so fragile that this is a necessary layer/ veneer of luring others into your world in which you later show your true colours.

Obviously I have no idea what it is, just guessing. But at 7 yrs old her daughter had the same traits as the dad. Even though she separated and she only saw dad occasionally. Emotional reasoning and inability to put yourself in others shoes, tantrums when not winning or perceived loss of face.

Sorry but he is a grown man carrying on like a kid. Make him move out for the sake of your daughter it's really not fair on her. I would not be putting up with this Whitby

You are lucky your daughters are younger. I would move out but daughters first then you.

Careful - this will trigger a huge abandonment issue so you need to be well prepared not to be lured into this eggshell cycle. Keep citing not getting on with your husband. You can always parent from a boundaried home but you will need support.

You need to move yourself and your daughters out. Your husband is toxic and your son is making everyone’s life hell.

Careful - this will trigger a huge abandonment issue so you need to be well prepared not to be lured into this eggshell cycle.

Can you explain what you mean by an eggshell cycle?

He sounds like a nasty piece of work and both your son and your DH are treating you and your daughters like total crap. I’d kick them both out and enjoy a peaceful life with your girls. The 16 year old needs protecting from him and her dad doesn’t care.

Sorry @Ooonafoo this is abuse and coercive control. You can’t switch MH issues on and off nor direct them at particular people whilst behaving perfectly normally with others.

Look after you and your girls.