What’s going on with my adult son?

[Ooonafoo]

I have copied this over from MH as not getting much traffic:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feeling_depressed/4776243-whats-going-on-with-my-adult-son?reply=125112485

He’s 24 - moved home last summer. Graduated 2 years ago and stayed in uni city after. Trying to establish a freelance creative career. He has his old school friends a pocket money job in a local pub and does loads of sport (solitary stuff - running / climbing). He doesn’t smoke, drink or do any drugs now. He is passive aggressive and hostile in the home. Doesn’t speak just a dark moody cloud - but chipper to his colleagues and friends. He makes his younger sisters walk on eggshells. He has this thing recently where when he is told to do something (reasonable house related) he descends into this whooping crying fit. I walk away as I see it as manipulative and he then rings his Dad at work screaming at him that I am mocking him and bullying him - which is not true - I will have said for instance do not use the jack and Jill shower at 2am use the main bathroom as it wakes your sister who has to go to school.

He screams that I am mocking his mental health by asking him to be considerate to others.

Is he being manipulative or is something deteriorating with him? Could he have something undiagnosed MH / ND that would cause this volatility and rage. My DD is scared of him physically although he has never been violent.

This is my gut but I am fearful of his outbursts and if this would lead to him taking his own life.

He self harmed as a teenager (repeatedly cut his thighs) which he only told me about and showed me recently. He had significant emotional issues when a GF left him and he had to resit exams and ‘didn’t want to live’ - we gave him loads and loads of gentle support and he had some therapy.

His behaviour was very challenging as a teenager at home and we rowed and clashed then. Our relationship was fine when he was living out - but his mood towards the family unit was hostile and volatile when he returned in the holidays.

He has a particular fixation on me and I have apologised for allowing the situation to escalate to become fractious when he was a teenager. I now don’t ever raise my voice with him but any simple request in a calm tone of voice sees him flip into this bizarre screaming state which I walk away from.

This recent (last 6 months since he has moved home) extreme screaming / crying is bizarre - I can’t work out if it’s a very significant symptom of an undiagnosed MH/ND issue or highly manipulative and abusive - so I don’t know if tough love would exacerbate the issue.

We have set him up for psychotherapy sessions as well as private assessment for ADHD but he is not taking these up.

Its causing huge distress in the family especially with my DDs. I don’t know who I am pandering to or protecting. The girls want him out - I am terrified he will take his own life.

This is worrying op. The fact that it is directed only to you and the manipulative behaviour and attempts to make you feel constantly guilty for his teenage behaviour could be the sign of a mental health issue but that is no excuse for the way he is treating you. He seems to feel he should be above you in the pecking order. You need to speak with your dh who absolutely needs to stop coming running and put up some boundaries. You currently have a ds and a dh problem. If he doesn't like your rules and can't be respectful he is welcome to move out and make his own way in the world. You don't need to apologise to him or fix him. You can be supportive but only to a certain extent.

The son is above the OP in this situation. We don't know what these little chats that the father and the son have, but I reckon it's some good old poison he's telling his old man.

The son is in charge of the house. The father is either happy or emasculated by his son.

“If your voice triggers him, he needs to move out, doesn't he? I mean, there is literally no other solution. You can't be silent forever and your girls can't walk on eggshells in their own home. “

this from a previous poster sums it up really well

theres really nothing else to it

oh except that your husband needs to get a bloody grip of himself op

How old are your daughters?
They need protection from him. He needs to move out.

DDs are 16 and 21

The father is either happy or emasculated by his son.

Interesting. He says he is trying to keep everyone happy - but that’s obviously not happening or true.

No one is happy including my DS.

I don’t think your son’s behaviour sounds safe. Psychologically he is harming you and your DDs but what if his behaviour turns physical? He needs to move out or you and your DDs move somewhere you’ll be safe.

My ex H behaved just like this. I had a very shit childhood and for many (many) years thought it was my fault. He would literally throw himself on the floor and start screaming if he didn't get what he wanted. It was horrendous - and also very effective. I would do anything to avoid it happening. We are divorced now but it has had the most awful and sustained impact on my wellbeing. He only did it around me and was able to manage his temper and regulate his emotions around others. His girlfriend after me also experienced it and it has also fucked her up. Im not sure what to suggest but I wish his parents or other men in his life had taken some radical action to prevent it. It has been, and remains, directed solely at women. Take action if you can - don't let this behaviour get any more entrenched. My ex husband is in his 50s now and I dont think will ever change.

I don't know, I kind of feel like if a person with a history of significant mental health issues acts like a person with mental health issues chances are it's mental health issues at play. Lots of people can put on a face for going out to work or whatever then not be able to at home.

I feel like the answer lies in your husband getting him to take up the offer of psychological support.

Please listen to this.

Show your DD she deserves a good life, not one controlled by bullies.

She needs to know someone has her back and that this isn't normal (although I'd be getting THEM to move out).

Your DH and DS can live happily ever after together (which won't last long if his Dad ends up his new emotional punchbag). I understand it's your son and perhaps it will feel like you're giving up on him but you're not, just protecting your daughter.

Your DH is a separate issue and doesn't sound like you're happy at all. I'd be rethinking your relationship even if DS manages to turn things around because you have been undermined throughout. It's no wonder your DS doesn't respect you when he sees your husband doesn't.

Encourage your son to go to therapy but make it clear you have firm boundaries. It's for his sake as much as you and DDs.

OP, your husband could change this but he is choosing not to.

Would you say that he likes his son? Or you?

Can you be sure he's not on drugs? Steroids? Is he bulking up? Coke? They both can bring out the rage.

He’s too nasty to live with. That decision doesn’t depend on why he’s behaving as he is. Your house, he leaves.

The screaming and crying from a grown man is bizarre - very sad. He only does it for gain, right?

No decent therapist would sanction him staying; you and DH need to see one yourselves, by the way.

He can cope. You can’t. He goes.

He didn’t smoke weed for long as a teenager as it made him ‘paranoid’ - he did binge drink and I was concerned about that - he has been teetotal for a year. He is socialising differently now as doesn’t like being around drinkers and his old friends also now do coke - so he avoids that. He is exercising compulsively.

I don’t think the mental health issues from teens will just go away. He could be undiagnosed adhd or similar. Would he go to counselling if dad approached it with him. He sounds like he may be masking but then struggling with overwhelm? Maybe contact mind or have a look on the autism uk website? The gp may be able to help.

Hard to know if he likes me - he says the words occasionally if pushed but seemingly actions and focus show otherwise.

This is my hunch and hope - might explain overwhelm at home but doesn’t excuse it. He is able to turn it on and off quickly though so not sure how out of control he is in reality.

We have lined up psychotherapists, EMDR specialists, GPs and psychiatrists to diagnosis MH / ND but he doesn’t engage - just screams in my face that I mock his MH. I said to him yesterday if you had a broken leg you would go get it fixed not leave it and scream and blame someone else - why wouldn’t you do the same with MH issue that needs addressing -you need take responsibility for engaging and pick up the tools offered.

This is me gaslighting him.

So what do you think you will do next OP? We can see that you've done literally everything you can at this point. You've arranged and offered him all the help in the world and he refuses to engage and his behaviour continues (deteriorates?). There's been a lot of opinions and advice been given since you opened the thread but I think it's obvious the overriding advice/opinion is to remove yourself and DD from the situation, either by you moving out or your DS (and maybe DH too) moving out. Is this something that you'd consider as a viable option?

I wouldn't be inflicting him on your daughters as mentally ill or not you are being belittled and manipulated by the men in your life.

What does it show them?

Also two of my sons are autistic and one very mentally unwell (he spent a long time sectioned as a teen) when he chose to live at home he had to comply by my rules which were no weed, go to all therapy/ psychiatric appointments and take your meds. Any deviations he had to go.

Am sorry for the situation you find yourself in. A flat for the men?

Hi OP

He might have mental health issues.

Or he might just be a manipulative man who had learned to get away with bad behaviour by calling daddy to get him to reverse any sanctions that mummy implements. He has literally learned that he can get away with anything...so he does.

Or it could be that both of those things are true.

Either way you should focus on the behaviour ,you can't diagnose him and he wont get help even though you've given him all the opportunities on a plate. You can't put up with this any more , (or you shouldn't- it's not fair on your daughters). You probably can't give him an ultimatum as your husband will just back him up and tell him not to listen.

So your choices are basically -
Put up with it and see your daughters leave and avoid home
Give him and ultimatum and tell your husband if he doesnt back you up he is out as well (not sure this will work as it will be all 'pretend you're doing x to keep your mum off your back)
Leave with your daughters

I think the last one is the only viable option given your husband is ok with how things are

If he is fine with everybody except you and DDs then he is choosing to abuse you. He is choosing his behaviour. You and DD deserve not to have to be gaslit and walking on eggshells by someone who is very manipulative. He is being enabled and, more worryingly, being encouraged by his father to be abusive to you and DDs. Your husband is using your son as a weapon against you all. They both need to leave. I fear it won't be long before the rage becomes too much and the physical violence will start. Please don't pussyfoot around this.

It all seems very selective - he can hold down a job and has friends but screams like a banshee at you. Either your DH starts to back you or he and your son need to move out.

I would say him saying to you that you are gaslighting him is just what you need to take on.

Nobody who is well adjusted stays around to be lied or manipulated. Your son may need a doctor or may just be abusive. But he should leave. He should want to leave if what you've said is true.

The person who is being gaslight is you. He tells you he has mental health issues but there is no evidence. You put down one boundary for it to be snatched away by your husband. Your daughter is scared. She sounds sensible because these two men are doing something manipulative between them.

My guess is that they both intend to get you out of the house, and have always been a bit contemptuous of women, you and your daughter.

Have a good think OP, maybe this little problem is all just for you.

Part of any personality disorder is the inability to have insight. Oh glorious insight.

Because if they had that one missing ingredient they would not be so out of balance. Hence it’s always the people around them but never them.

I would leave your husband and son to get on with it.

Mentally ill or not you are setting up your daughters to have issues, you could end up with all your children having problems.