If you’re staying in marriage for the sake of children

[Nametakenagain11]

How is it going?
how many years do you have left?
is it bearable?
really struggling with marriage at moment. We’ve just drifted apart. Nothing abusive or bad. I won’t break up the marriage till child is 18.

I get what you’re saying and I do agree to some extent but I also think you’re being quite naive and idealistic. I earn very well but live in an expensive area. In reality, neither my DH or I could afford our house if we separated. But we could afford something, so we are privileged. As someone said upthread, for many people a ‘step down’ is from a small rented flat to homelessness. It’s easy to say that’s better than a loveless marriage if it’s not you facing the actual reality of telling your children they now live in a hostel miles from their school or that they can’t go on school trips, do their hobbies or go out with their friends. It’s easy to be dismissive of how much that stuff matters but it really does.

Also, the story about the person who started over is very clear that she only started saving money for a proper home after moving her new boyfriend in to share costs. Sounds like it’s all worked out well and there’s nothing wrong with it but it’s hardly the inspiring story of a solo woman taking on the world and winning. It’s an example of the depressing reality that in this country today, a single adult household is unlikely to be anything other than struggling financially until they couple up again.

You may think you’re doing the right thing by staying in the marriage, but from the perspective of a child who grew up in a house like this, you’re absolutely not. I was very aware my parents were no longer in a “real” relationship. As a result of that, I found it very difficult to for lasting and trusting relationships as an adult. I also carried a tremendous amount of guilt that both my parents were unable to be
fulfilled and happy because of some false sense of obligation to us children. It has royally fucked is all over and deprived my parents of what could have been many happy years in another relationship.

I know it's hard to take the decision to leave, but I think sometimes saying 'we'll split when the children are older' is a way of kicking a problem in to the long grass. It won't be magically easier when they're 18. I'd argue it's harder. Children adapt, generally, well to change. Much harder when you're 18 and going through huge hormaonal and life changes, maybe leaving home for the first time to go to uni, forming your own romantic relationships, losing friends you've been all the way through school with, feeling your way in to the world of work. It's the biggest time of life changes. Your parents splitting up at the same time? Really, really hard, and you're maybe away from home so can't see they're OK or be with them for your own reassurance.

And you're old enough to realise they did it 'for you'?? How bad would that make you feel.

And all along, they've modelled a not great relationship, which you'll have thought was normal and may impact on your own r'ship decisions.

I know leaving can be hard, but don't let 'for the children' be the reason you stay, if you genuinely have other options.

Child arrangements come into it. 50/50 can be horrible for parents and children being passed from pillar to post and parents missing out on time with children. If one parent becomes nasty then you just have constant worry they are taking things out on the children and there's nothing you can do about it.

So it's not as simple as leaving.

@TheChoiceIsYours I did win, but I never said I'd taken on the world. I have a happy life and I'd have done it anyway whether I'd met my partner or not. The deposit at the time was only 5k , and although it would have taken me longer, my earnings were growing and I'd have done it.

I was on my own for a number of years, I started with nothing but bit by bit I improved my earnings and was able to put a bit away. When I met my partner, I was in a much better place. Your dismissive comment about moving a boyfriend in (there was no boyfriend) is really quite depressing that you think that's the only way I'd have got myself a "proper home".

But you have a responsibility to the adults your children grow into.

These threads are so depressing. Without fail all the advice from people who've actually been through parental divorce is "don't stay til the kids are 18, it fucks them up". And it goes unlistened to.

I know a lot of people whose parents divorced. In every single case where the parents waited until the kids were late teens, that person has been messed up in some way - unable to form lasting relationships, alcohol/substance addiction, a shedload of therapy. The ones whose parents divorced when they were young children are all well-adjusted in comparison and mostly have healthy relationships with both parents.

The phrase "stay together for the kids" is so, so damaging if you actually care how those kids will be at 25 or 30 or 35 rather than just at 8, 9, 10.

Well, yes, because you literally said this:

"I met my partner during that time. That was around 15 years ago. Every penny I had was going on bills and when things got more serious and I realised we'd be together, my partner moved in and we saved every penny of our joint incomes and we eventually had enough for a low deposit shared ownership house."

You lifted yourself out of poverty with the help of a man. I don't doubt you worked hard. But you used a second income to get out of your situation.

I don't have a room of my own, even if I did want to move a man in. I have to share a room with my daughter. I live in an expensive area. There is no route out of this, other than a lottery win. I had my kids very late, so I'm still in the primary years (three more to go) and I'm 50. I can't get a mortgage for what I'd need for a house on my own, at my age.

I maintain my kids were better off in the home we were in before. They hate being carted off EOW to their father and his new gf's house. It is unsettling for them.

And my life is a constant drudgery of school run, race to work, slog my guts out, school run, do all the cooking, all the housework, all the life admin, all the chores, all the car admin, everything.

We live in a tiny flat. It's all I can afford. Rent goes up, I've nothing to show for it. It is absolutely fucking miserable, the stress of living in such a small space with growing kids, the youngest of whom has to share a room with me, and I can't see how to change that.

I need half a million in this area to get a basic terrace with boxroom bedrooms. This is simply out if my reach, and so I'm stuck living like this til my kids are much older. They can't have friends over as there is simply no room. I have no room for laundry, so it's hung over doors every few days, looking shit. We have no garden.

This is not the childhood I wanted for them. Lucky you all able to leave if you can still maintain a better standard of living for your DC than I can mine.

Thank you to @MyriadOfTravels for understand.

I would indeed have preferred to stay in my loveless yet civil marriage, than expose my poor children to this level of financial hardship and far from ideal living conditions.

And to repeat my previous post in case anyone tells me I should move just further out, I'd need to move two hours out minimum, to possibly get a home big enough for us, impossible for access to the father eow, disruptive to the schooling, disruptive to their sense of roots in this area, their friends etc. So not something I think is better than our current dire situation. I tell myself the kids will really appreciate it when they can move out and start homes of their own. That's assuming this poverty hasn't impacted them so badly that their lives don't improve after all.

I think you have the answer. Everyone of us as adults who had parents that stayed together for the kids have been negatively effected one way or another. Children, are far more adaptable than most adults.

Don't say you staying for the children, that's an awful burden to put on them.

How about in situations where you know if you "dared" to leave that he would hurt the kids to get back at you.

I'm not talking about physically but he would not be amicable in the slightest, so would emotionally abuse the kids in such a way that the courts wouldn't do anything.

Staying means I protect them.

Now, throughout the thread people keep saying that the kids always know, but also that the other adult is always shocked when there children turn 18 and their partner or spouse leaves.

Surely it's only with hindsight that folk say they always knew.

I'm in a situation where we get on well, can be affectionate but if he died tomorrow I'd be relieved to be free.

I grew up in a physically, verbally and emotionally abusive household. I begged my mum to leave him for years, this isn't that.

Don't you think that your life choices have been influenced by your upbringing though?

By staying you will be repeating the cycle and helping ensure your DC model future relationships on yours?

@Q12 I'll clarify, I'd been seeing my partner for some time before they moved in and I'd already started to be able to put a small amount away as my earnings increased. If I was alone , I'd have done it anyway but taken longer. Things were dire, to begin with. I didn't want to live like that. I had to up my earnings which I did. I didn't move anyone in to lift me out of my mess.

I posted my experience in the hope someone who's living miserably could see things can get better. I made huge sacrifices and , other than our house, I'm not tied financially to my partner. If my partner walked out tomorrow, I can do it alone. There was no man who saved the day here.

This is what my friends parents did to her. They waited until her brother was 18 and she was 20.
Totally fucked them both up, she's 51 and still looks at family photos now and ponders if it was taken at a time her parents were genuinely happy or pretending to be 🙁
She's had therapy etc over the years but still wishes dearly they had split up sooner and not done what they did.

I took heed of the trauma this caused to her and her brother and when my own marriage became unhappy my ex & I separated when our dc were young.

@Q12 I genuinely wish you well.

My children will be adults by the time I'm able to save anything.

I'm glad you managed it. If I moved a man in, maybe I could too. But I can't, I don't even have that option.

Any solutions?

I don't think there is a black and white answer, from the replies here it feels contextual and about "what happens next", with many people thinking "the grass is greener". If only my parents had/hadn't divorced, things would be much better.

If someone divorces when the children are young: can they afford it, will they introduce the child to a new partner, will that partner be a good person, will they have other step children or half siblings? If someone "stays for the children": can the parents get on, do things as a family, be respectful and warm, model a loving and normal relationship, not have affairs etc?

A lot of the protests about divorce seem to be about poverty, new partners/families, physical separation from the child, and the child being moved about between two homes. The protests about staying together are misery & resentment, experiencing explosive daily arguments, the impact of later divorce, and modelling bad relationships.

Because single women with children is the group most likely to live in poverty? I don’t know about you, but if nearly half if single mothers live in poverty, I’m going to say that by divorcing you are likely to end poor. And just now, with the CoL, it means having to chose between heating and eating.

• 45% of single parents – the vast majority (90%) of which are women – are living in poverty. Almost half of children living with a single parent (47%) are now in poverty.

https://wbg.org.uk/blog/dwp-data-reveals-women-continue-to-be-worst-affected-by-poverty/

You seem to be living in a little bubble if privilege tbh.

@Q12 I'm sure it was easier for me. I live in Scotland, it sounds as though you live in the south, Worlds apart in terms of property prices. A much smaller deposit and shared equity was what I was lucky to secure. It does sound like you'd have to move, but I know that's not on the table for you right now.

Maybe the uncomfortable truth is that most of the time, a child having divorced parents is shit and so is having unhappily together parents.

@TheChoiceIsYours I agree with you there.
But it’s an unpalatable truth fur most people. That ‘just’ starting over is enough and all will be good ever after.
Its not as proven by the many threads in MN with children struggling with divorced parents .
It might help women who get divorced feel better but I dint think it reflects tte reality.

I was on this situation last January and decided to just end it as I realised it was impacting my mental health and I had to be strong for DD - I figured she deserves me at my best and not me pretending to be happy. Her dad wasn't happy either and has since agreed separating was the right thing for us to do. It's been a rocky year but my divorce will be final soon and we'll be selling the house so we can both start afresh. What's made it harder is that neither of us moved out we just have separate room, that has however made it easier for our 7 year old. She's excited for when we both have seoerate houses and she loves how she gets more mummy time as I'm not spending all my time with her cleaning, cooking or working. I was 34 at the time and a big reason I bit the bullet was because I think it will be easier to rebuild my life now rather that waiting 10plus years until she 18. I have her half the week and every other weekend which she knows is my time even though he may still be around the house and I feel this time with her has been so much more valuable as I can focus all my energy on her. All of my friends and family have said I'm like the old me and are so happy I'm meeting friends again. Communication with my ex is still hard but once the house is sold I believe it will improve. Good luck with whatever you decide

I had some pastoral responsibilities when I worked in a university department some years ago. Every year at least a couple of students would come back from the Christmas break upset saying that their parents had decided to split. It really threw them in their first year away from home, realising that home was not the stable base they thought it was.

But what about the children!
You mean it would be better for them to move school , leave their friends, family, network all that for a house?
What about the father? Is ut ok now to take a child away from their dad?

(all might not apply to you@Q12)

Im annoyed at people assuming you can just start over. Move to the other side of the country, just work hard etc… wo ever taking into account PRACTICALITIES. Like the cost of childcare (and no it wasn’t the same 15 years ago), education (working hard isn’t enough to earn a good wave), having no family support etc…l And annoyed that what is usually considered selfish to do (like moving) is suddenly considered ok.

@MyriadOfTravels I'm not assuming anything.

Justify it all you want. Continue living in your situation. It's not for me and will never be. AGAIN, to each their own. It's sad, it's a pity, it's hell but hey ho, stay for the kids.

@smizing you seem to assume that was my choice. Have I said that anywhere?

I have simply stated that saying women will not end up in in poverty - and their children with them - is not the reality.
Tye reality is that 50% do. @Q12 reality is the reality for half if the single mothers.

And that’s something to take into account when you decide to get divorced.
Clearly, you have no hesitation. That’s great. I also assume you know you would be ok financially..l..