Do they teach children at school about bad people and how to spot them and how to protect themselves? If not shouldn’t they?

[Justwondering3]

Im just wondering as I have small children.

I was not taught this by my parents and got myself in all sorts of mess. Does anything happen at school to prepare our children for the big world in case the parents are not able to for whatever reason? Like myself I was highly academically educated but I was emotionally extremely immature.

Yes it’s up to us as parents to do this but some genuinely can’t.

Slightly un related but a girl in my daughters class has just had 10 baby teeth out because her parents gave her fizzy drinks. The parents for whatever reason have not protected this child but she is the one who suffers.

@DontMakeMeShushYou childhood trauma is linked heavily to adult mental health problems. Childhood trauma can be linked to disorders such as Narcissistic disorder and anxiety amongst many others. Most people are not born with these issues. Obviously there are many other factors that contribute.

OP.

I grew up within abuse. I have also been in abusive relationships. I no longer have any contact with my mum because she brought a CSO into our lives. I have had therapy. I've talked to friends. I've read books. I've reflected on my own choices and experiences. I can't do that for everyone. I must be the change I wish to see on the world and all that.

I have already explained why schools are limited on what we can do.

But to elaborate...

We teach boundaries from nursery. I personally don't teach that you must play with someone if they are on their own or always be kind and forgive and forget because there are times when it's not appropriate. I teach that children should apologise if they hurt another but not to expect automatic forgiveness. When someone has stabbed you in the face with a sharpened pencil, I don't think you should be made to feel you ought to forgive them at any age tbh. I also don't teach that you must share you possessions with someone else. At 5, it might be a toy in the classroom; at 10, it might be your pencil crayons; by 13 it might be your body. These lessons start young.

How can we expect children to be confident saying no if we've always taught them to say yes?

We teach the pants rule, we have police officers come in to talk about county lines and the importance of online safety. We have a very robust safeguarding system within school. We have the NSPCC come in to do assemblies.

We teach about healthy friendships, how to manage and respond to those that are not. We teach about self esteem and self worth and the impact of these on our choices and behaviours.

Schools know that there are loads of sub par parents who, for many reasons, are not doing the job they are supposed to and we support the children as best as we can.

I have worked in a number of schools who buy in therapists but there are so many children who need their help that there is not enough time in the week to support them all.

But there is literally no time for any more in the school day.

As I, and others have said, the children who have no experience of this are hyper vigilant and don't understand what it refers to. The children who need it - it doesn't register with them because their needs are beyond anything a school can offer.

We do talk about these things and include them wherever we can but there is only so much we can do.

I don't blame my school for failing to 'educate' me but, tbh, I'm one of the children who wouldn't have recognised that it was me they were referring to if they had.

I'm old and wise and experienced enough now to know that I would probably have been removed from my parents at a child. I was also a child when childline came out. I never once called them because I didn't recognise myself in the children being talked about.

The problem is the same as with many of these initiatives - you simply fail to reach the families you need to and, if you do reach them, you are only scratching the surface.

With my own experience, I'm very aware of attachment issues, multi generational familial abuse etc and the impact of these.

But even if I could find an extra 20 mins in the week or sacrificed something else to find it, there is absolutely nothing I could do or say in that time which would make the slightest bit of difference to the children who actually need it.

It's not that I don't care but thers only so much we have the capacity for.

I have taught own children about boundaries etc. Children need to see them in action to learn them. It's the whole 'children learn what they live' thing. You don't want them to see it? Be your own change.

People have to take some personal responsibility for the lives they have created for themselves and the families they have created. I (and others like me) cannot do it all for you.

Teacher here although at secondary. First of all,what does a bad person look.like? If only they wire a distinguishing piece of clothing, it would be easier. It is the parents' responsibility. Schools tey to teach about consent etc but there is onli so much we can do. Until there is a GCSE in yhis I can't see it being valued. It is slotted into short sessions. I always start off any sensitive topics by saying most people are decent. I think it sad the premise is they are not. I would think you would be in the ideal position to talk to your child if u feel yiu were let down by lack of support by parents.

Being a true crime addict and consequently paranoid as all heck, my poor 7 year old knows to avoid by a long way anyone who stops in a car,dont talk just run; to trust her gut if someone seems weird and not worry about being rude to get away from someone. She also knows that if with a friend in a bad situation to get away in order to help them both, no matter what. And to tell any men that ask for help to ask another man instead.and if lost to go to a till in a shop. And that if anyone she doesnt know tries to talk to her online it's probably a 50 year old man pretending. Mind you 99.9 of these situations she wont encounter yet while she's with me, but if at a friend's house etc.

I don't know how you'd teach children about 'bad people'? I was a DSL in a primary school, we taught children the PANTS rules and how to say no, when feeling uncomfortable or not liking something and PSHE covered relationships, friendships, bullying but tbh all the abuse children disclosed to me was done by parents/siblings or close family members, who you wouldn't teach children to think of as 'bad'. I've always told my kids, it doesn't matter who it is, if you feel uncomfortable say so and tell a trusted grown up.

Yes, I agree

Yes.

Yes, it's true.

Relying on Yourself in life first of all is a sign of maturity which comes with age and wisdom.

Yes relying on yourself is the best thing to do and taking responsibility is a must if you wish to move forward. It’s a brave and painful lesson. I really feel for each of you who have been brave enough to have come out the other side. But then the next step is surely using this wisdom and knowledge to help others not have to learn these hard lessons somehow. Maybe not schooling but then maybe schooling is set up wrong and more emphasis needs to been on emotional achievement as well as academia. I personally believe they go hand in hand. One is pretty useless without the other.

Have you not read anything I (or other teachers) have posted?

We do teach those things. We know it's as important as the academic stuff. A school's main priority is safeguarding its pupils. Teaching and academics comes second to that already.

But there is a limit to what we can do. School cannot become or provide intensive therapy either.

Parents need to take responsibility.

@OldChinaJug yes I’ve read all your posts. I’m just unsure if it’s enough. I’m also unsure if the teachers are the right ones to teach it like you say they have enough on their plates and perhaps not qualified. I’ve been into my daughters school numerous times to explain her situation. Nothing has been done for her, her teacher (not of her own doing) does not understand the complexity of the situation. Her solution was to place her on the table with the children who have learning difficulties and need a little support and are closest to her for monitoring. It’s not helping at all. I remember on Father’s Day they all made cards and she was upset because she was not allowed to see him at that point. I know it’s complicated but she felt so different as no one could talk to her.

Your pupils are lucky that you have experience.

@Justwondering3

You seem like you started this thread not quite clear what you wanted but now you are absolutely single minded that what you have been told by those at the bleeding edge is “not enough”, based on very little but a feeling.

@Villssev the more I think about it and the more I read the responses the more I do believe more needs to be done. I am allowed my opinion. I am not saying by the teachers! They do the best they can!

Indeed you are “allowed” your opinion

The OP says she has read the teachers posts

but for some reason has decided she knows better.

I am not a teacher. I think schools do as much as they can and the rest is the parents responsibility. And if the parents are neglectful in this respect then very little can be done, but sadly… that’s life

@Villssev I don’t feel I know better I have a difference of opinion to yourself on this situation, that’s all.

me and numerous teachers on this thread 🤷‍♀️

School isn’t a legal requirement. Education is a legal requirement.

Many children are home educated.

@Villssev yep so be it and you can’t tell me otherwise. Perhaps schools need to also put more emphasis on how people deal with different options without become judgmental. I’m up for others opinions, whether I agree or not is my choice.

I appreciate everyone’s responses.

you can’t tell me otherwise
too right. I’m just a parent.

but you have had multiple teachers as well 🤷‍♀️

ps school isn’t a legal requirement

Very noble of you - well done

It would be hard to decide what a 'bad' person is and what they supposedly look like.

A drug dealer can be the kid on the corner of the man in the fancy suit. An abuser can hide his abuse until much later. A 'creepy' seeming or odd person could be perfectly nice and just be ND or unwell.

I don't think people are taught to see bad people they're just told to listen to their instincts when a situation feels wrong.

I guess the ins and outs would need to be decided. I’ve no real experience of this and yes it would be really difficult and would need a multi agency approach.

School is the only place really where the majority of children are together.

maybe it’s just a case of more emphasis on listening to oneself and emotions etc.

I’m not sure what the OP wants teachers to do. Some teachers stick to teaching (their job), others do try to add extras but ultimately a teacher’s job is to teach academic and some selected extracurricular subjects and there is little time for much else.

Imo where relationships are taught there is a lot of focus on sexual abuse and consent - understandably so but I think it should be part of a broader picture. It’s only as an adult (and also through mumsnet) that I’ve become more educated about all sorts of things - grooming, narcissism, propaganda, echo chambers, gaslighting, manipulation, toxic friendships, dysfunctional families etc - that might have helped me and others as a teen. Education on how to recognise and emotionally and physically detach from these situations would have been very useful.

As a pp said, there’s not enough time and also the very children who need this information will be the ones who are unable to receive it. But if it was common knowledge maybe their peers might help them and the constant flow of info might eventually get through.

Also if people recognised themselves doing these behaviours some of them might pull back on it. And it would be easier for others to recognise them and call them out on it or manage their own responses or steer clear.

So yes OP it would be helpful - but there are so many other things to learn - where do you fit it all in. Ideally the parents would teach them but again as a pp said, the very children who need it are the ones who probably have poor parenting.