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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Did my Husband SA me?

114 replies

Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 18:58

this threads very graphic, look away now if you’re easily offended!

its so hard to give you 15years of back story and know where to start so I’m sorry if it’s muddled. but basically my husbands goneaway do this weekend. He got some white stuff for it (I used to do it to on occasion, he still does very rarely, nothing like this has happened before either on or off it)

so on Thursday night he “tested a bit out before the weekend away”. ( whatever, to me that’s not an issue in itself) the issue is I woke up at 4am Friday morning to him stroking the very side of my you know, had a little tug on my knickers and was also having a tug on his you know. So I woke up and said to him what are you doing that’s not ok, he stopped, laid there in silence for 15 mins, I went outside for a min (felt physically sick and confused). Came back in and turned the light on and put pj bottoms on (was just wearing a nightie and knickers). He said he’s really sorry and he now feels like he’s r**ed me, I said my bit that I felt sick what do you think you’re doing etc, he said he can go sleep on sofa and I didn’t answer, expecting he would. Anyway he didn’t, couldn’t obviously go back to sleep and about half hour later he’s watching a video I did for him and getting excited over it again. I’ve obviously told him how disgusting it is etc etc etc. he’s apologised multiple times and I haven’t said much back. Luckily he’s away this weekend and I’ve been able to think without him here. In my head I think I know it’s sexual assault, and I feel like both options for me are shit, let him stay and think that’s acceptable or let him go and ruin our lives together and our kids lives, families lives etc by having to explain the reason we broke up (or not and make it look like we just broke up after all these years for no reason)

so I don’t know what I’m asking for , because I will be the one to decide what I do anyway, but I guess just your 2 cents, and some reassurance that I’m not overreacting?

some notes: I know full well the reason that happened is because of what he was on, there is no way in hell he will be doing that ever again after this weekend if he thinks he’s gonna stay in this house so I don’t see it happening again. We truly are best friends, he’s my soul mate and we’ve been through a HELL of a lot in 15 years, he’s never once let me down apart from this, so I’m not just some mug who’s staying cos she’s scared or making excuses for him, trust me! TIA

OP posts:
Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 20:20

Thelifeofawife · 26/03/2023 20:17

When I read your first post I thought okay it’s not something you find acceptable but he was just chancing his luck to arouse you. And now he knows you’re not happy he shouldn’t do it again.
My DH wakes me up in the night sometimes but it’s usually with a kiss or stroking my side, and if I respond positively then game on, but sometimes I just give him a quick peck which indicates “not tonight” and he leaves it at that.

However, from reading your update, your DH not only went a step too far by going straight into your knickers, but he was there with a torch, trying to not wake you up! That’s really disgusting. He had no intention of waking you to participate in the act. It was definitely SA.
Sorry OP

Sorry I forgot to add those details originally. That's the thing that's upsetting, he did it on the sly, felt he'd gone a step too far and then was still horny

OP posts:
DrinkFeckArseBrick · 26/03/2023 20:20

Sexual assault can be sexual touching without consent. If you wouldnt touch your children or friends like he did then yes its sexual and if you werent awake it was assault (unless like a PP has said you've agreed between you previously this was fine).

And the 'written consent' comment is ridiculous. When you know someone well you know what's acceptable to the other person and not. You can tell from things like facial expressions and how much they're joining in etc etc. Yes there may be some grey areas...but being asleep is 100% not one of them.

Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 20:21

Daffodilsandbeer · 26/03/2023 20:18

*your DH not only went a step too far by going straight into your knickers8

im so confused, where does she say he was in her knickers? I see she says he tugged them but not he was in them?

He was in them. Stroking my vagina and tugging on knickers

OP posts:
Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 20:22

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 26/03/2023 20:20

Sexual assault can be sexual touching without consent. If you wouldnt touch your children or friends like he did then yes its sexual and if you werent awake it was assault (unless like a PP has said you've agreed between you previously this was fine).

And the 'written consent' comment is ridiculous. When you know someone well you know what's acceptable to the other person and not. You can tell from things like facial expressions and how much they're joining in etc etc. Yes there may be some grey areas...but being asleep is 100% not one of them.

I can assure you I've never agreed to him touching me or anything whilst asleep.

OP posts:
unsync · 26/03/2023 20:26

You were asleep, if he hadn't accidentally woken you, he would have carried on. You can't consent when you are asleep. It is assault. His actions show that you are there for his sexual gratification.

Mrsknowitall · 26/03/2023 20:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@FannyPhart im with you on this one, I’ve been awaken by my dh either thrusting or fondling and vice Versa tbh if I’m to tired I tell him to leave off, which he does or we go in for a quickie, if I’m not up for it I definitely wouldn’t be accusing him of sexual assault! And I have been raped and assaulted by an ex so I know the trauma that brings. Op you told your husband no and how disgusted you was and he stopped, if you feel this strongly tell him that you don’t ever want him to do that again and also with the video of you, you sent him that, that is now his to watch whenever he likes if you no longer want him to look at this video then please tell him to delete it asap and don’t send him any more as your giving him mixed messages, his not likely to ask your permission before every time he wants to view it.

Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 20:26

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 26/03/2023 20:20

Sexual assault can be sexual touching without consent. If you wouldnt touch your children or friends like he did then yes its sexual and if you werent awake it was assault (unless like a PP has said you've agreed between you previously this was fine).

And the 'written consent' comment is ridiculous. When you know someone well you know what's acceptable to the other person and not. You can tell from things like facial expressions and how much they're joining in etc etc. Yes there may be some grey areas...but being asleep is 100% not one of them.

Thank you

OP posts:
Thelifeofawife · 26/03/2023 20:29

Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 20:20

Sorry I forgot to add those details originally. That's the thing that's upsetting, he did it on the sly, felt he'd gone a step too far and then was still horny

Show quote history

You’re right to feel upset. He’s used you for his own gratification, with no intention of you even being aware of it or consenting.

If you stay with him you need to make it clear that he is to never take anything again, and nor does he touch you whilst you’re asleep.

Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 20:29

Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 18:58

this threads very graphic, look away now if you’re easily offended!

its so hard to give you 15years of back story and know where to start so I’m sorry if it’s muddled. but basically my husbands goneaway do this weekend. He got some white stuff for it (I used to do it to on occasion, he still does very rarely, nothing like this has happened before either on or off it)

so on Thursday night he “tested a bit out before the weekend away”. ( whatever, to me that’s not an issue in itself) the issue is I woke up at 4am Friday morning to him stroking the very side of my you know, had a little tug on my knickers and was also having a tug on his you know. So I woke up and said to him what are you doing that’s not ok, he stopped, laid there in silence for 15 mins, I went outside for a min (felt physically sick and confused). Came back in and turned the light on and put pj bottoms on (was just wearing a nightie and knickers). He said he’s really sorry and he now feels like he’s r**ed me, I said my bit that I felt sick what do you think you’re doing etc, he said he can go sleep on sofa and I didn’t answer, expecting he would. Anyway he didn’t, couldn’t obviously go back to sleep and about half hour later he’s watching a video I did for him and getting excited over it again. I’ve obviously told him how disgusting it is etc etc etc. he’s apologised multiple times and I haven’t said much back. Luckily he’s away this weekend and I’ve been able to think without him here. In my head I think I know it’s sexual assault, and I feel like both options for me are shit, let him stay and think that’s acceptable or let him go and ruin our lives together and our kids lives, families lives etc by having to explain the reason we broke up (or not and make it look like we just broke up after all these years for no reason)

so I don’t know what I’m asking for , because I will be the one to decide what I do anyway, but I guess just your 2 cents, and some reassurance that I’m not overreacting?

some notes: I know full well the reason that happened is because of what he was on, there is no way in hell he will be doing that ever again after this weekend if he thinks he’s gonna stay in this house so I don’t see it happening again. We truly are best friends, he’s my soul mate and we’ve been through a HELL of a lot in 15 years, he’s never once let me down apart from this, so I’m not just some mug who’s staying cos she’s scared or making excuses for him, trust me! TIA

@mrsknowitall

To be clear I don't mind him watching the video, that's no the issue at all . Like I have said if I'd woke up and he was watching the video then that's fine, but to do it less than 30 mins after he said he was sorry and upset and he felt like he'd SA me and then start getting off again I just find weird. I'm not trying to do some big accusing thing. I'm asking peoples opinions. And by the looks of them they're all just as confused as I am

OP posts:
Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 20:34

unsync · 26/03/2023 20:26

You were asleep, if he hadn't accidentally woken you, he would have carried on. You can't consent when you are asleep. It is assault. His actions show that you are there for his sexual gratification.

That's one of the questions in my head, if I hadn't woken up and he said he knew he'd taken it too far, how much further would it have gone? I mean I don't think it would have gone further but I didn't think he'd ever do something like that

OP posts:
h311o · 26/03/2023 20:36

If I wake horny, I often wake my husband up by masterbating him. If the first time I did this he said he was uncomfortable I would not do it again. Instead he finds me touching him in this way makes him feel loved and wanted.

If you’ve also taken drugs you know this wasn’t your husband per se and was a side effect of what he’d taken. If you spoke to him about this, he was horrified and agreed never to do it again that would be enough for many people and they’d be able to move on. It doesn’t sound like it would be enough for you and that you’ve emotionally detached yourself and know want to leave. As a daughter to a mother who was. Sexually abused I’m aware there are a lot of reasons why you feel the way you do.

Some choices would be; attend counselling to see if you can work through this (either alone or together) or to start planning your separation.

Rebel2 · 26/03/2023 20:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You agree it before
My ex was perfectly happy to be woken up by me and stated it several times. I'm not, and I'm like a bear with a sore head if someone tries it, so he never did. Because I had explicitly stated I do not ever want to be woken up with sex

He would bring me a cup of tea instead Grin and then it was more likely!

It's like I dunno, anal. You don't just do it and presume someone wants it

Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 20:40

h311o · 26/03/2023 20:36

If I wake horny, I often wake my husband up by masterbating him. If the first time I did this he said he was uncomfortable I would not do it again. Instead he finds me touching him in this way makes him feel loved and wanted.

If you’ve also taken drugs you know this wasn’t your husband per se and was a side effect of what he’d taken. If you spoke to him about this, he was horrified and agreed never to do it again that would be enough for many people and they’d be able to move on. It doesn’t sound like it would be enough for you and that you’ve emotionally detached yourself and know want to leave. As a daughter to a mother who was. Sexually abused I’m aware there are a lot of reasons why you feel the way you do.

Some choices would be; attend counselling to see if you can work through this (either alone or together) or to start planning your separation.

Thank you for your helpful reply and some good ideas in moving forwards. Obviously within the 15 years we've had situations like that, neither ever started masturbating, but sort of stroke arm or whisper in ear to rouse. This just feels totally different, he was trying to finish himself off whilst stroking me and hoping I wouldn't wake up and looking at me with a torch under the covers. I mean I'm not sure if anyone would wake up feeling horny at that would they? Gave me the ick like someone else said 🙈

OP posts:
Jusmakingit · 26/03/2023 20:46

I don’t get why you’re so confused about it. You’re either upset about what he did or you’re not . You don’t need a group of strangers telling you if your husband SA you , either you feel he did or you feel he didn’t. You don’t need strangers telling you how to feel either .

Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 20:49

Jusmakingit · 26/03/2023 20:46

I don’t get why you’re so confused about it. You’re either upset about what he did or you’re not . You don’t need a group of strangers telling you if your husband SA you , either you feel he did or you feel he didn’t. You don’t need strangers telling you how to feel either .

I feel he did. I wanted to know others opinions on the matter and it's interesting because they all seem to differ and that's exactly why one mine im thinking is it really that bad and the next minute im thinking that's not acceptable I can't forgive that. Silly comment really, forums wouldn't exist if people didn't ask for others opinions? I'm a very open, kind and honest person, and having come here to read advice before and deciding to post for the first time because there was no situation similar I could find, I feel as though some comments are coming across quite rude. Not what any of us need frankly

OP posts:
Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 20:51

Jusmakingit · 26/03/2023 20:46

I don’t get why you’re so confused about it. You’re either upset about what he did or you’re not . You don’t need a group of strangers telling you if your husband SA you , either you feel he did or you feel he didn’t. You don’t need strangers telling you how to feel either .

Why's there daily threads called "AIBU" if people don't ever need others' opinions on their thoughts and feelings. That's kind of the point of mumsnet isn't it 🤔

OP posts:
Zanatdy · 26/03/2023 20:54

I guess the issue for me is if he never intended to wake you. I have no issue with my boyfriend waking me up by stroking my vagina etc, if he’s horny. I would do the same to him, and none of us would ask for permission etc. I guess when you’re naked and don’t live together like we do it’s normal to wake up and do that. I personally wouldn’t be offended in your situation but only if he was happy for me to wake up and have sex. Does seem a bit odd if he didn’t want you to wake up

Liz1tummypain · 26/03/2023 20:54

Are you thinking of prosecuting, if you decide that it is sexual assault, OP ? Without any legal background whatsoever, from my extremely limited knowledge it sounds bad, in which case are you going to the police? I suspect they will be best able to help.

DojaPhat · 26/03/2023 20:57

I'm not sure. I'm finding it a bit difficult for various reasons to follow your posts but above all else what's important is how you feel about a situation. In that your feelings are valid regardless of how others perceive them. I hope time gives you the answers, solution and peace you deserve.

Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 20:57

Liz1tummypain · 26/03/2023 20:54

Are you thinking of prosecuting, if you decide that it is sexual assault, OP ? Without any legal background whatsoever, from my extremely limited knowledge it sounds bad, in which case are you going to the police? I suspect they will be best able to help.

Honestly, if it was 10 years ago and we weren't so tied in together and it wasn't going to destroy so many peoples lives including my children's, I would have thought about it. But no, I feel as though the family needs protecting and it's maybe just one very stupid mistake that we will hopefully forget all about and be able to move forwards. It's just interesting hearing people's views and to understand whether mine are valid or completely ridiculous

OP posts:
RemoteControlDoobry · 26/03/2023 20:57

No I don’t think it’s SA. I think you know that people on here will say it is.

Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 20:58

DojaPhat · 26/03/2023 20:57

I'm not sure. I'm finding it a bit difficult for various reasons to follow your posts but above all else what's important is how you feel about a situation. In that your feelings are valid regardless of how others perceive them. I hope time gives you the answers, solution and peace you deserve.

Thank you, I appreciate that. Sorry it's hard to follow. I rushed it together and missed bits, I understand that

OP posts:
Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 21:00

RemoteControlDoobry · 26/03/2023 20:57

No I don’t think it’s SA. I think you know that people on here will say it is.

Why would I bother asking then? Why is everyone out with their claws tonight? I genuinely don't know, according to Google it is, but in real life it's a very grey area and very interesting to hear whether I am being completely unreasonable or whether I am valid in feeling upset and let down, and whether this actually did happen to me the way my mind keeps thinking it did. Clearly it is a grey area with differing opinions reading these replies. Now you can see why I'm confused on my opinion and feelings

OP posts:
Original poster
Confusedandmad · 26/03/2023 21:03

Zanatdy · 26/03/2023 20:54

I guess the issue for me is if he never intended to wake you. I have no issue with my boyfriend waking me up by stroking my vagina etc, if he’s horny. I would do the same to him, and none of us would ask for permission etc. I guess when you’re naked and don’t live together like we do it’s normal to wake up and do that. I personally wouldn’t be offended in your situation but only if he was happy for me to wake up and have sex. Does seem a bit odd if he didn’t want you to wake up

Exactly, and having experienced the waking up and feeling horny situations in the whole 15 years I've never felt so much like he was trying to quickly bash one out under the covers whilst I was asleep, (which has of course happened before and I don't have an issue with). The issue for me is the touching and looking, saying he feels horrible and knew he was wrong then continuing to bash one out.

OP posts:
Morningcoffeeview · 26/03/2023 21:06

RemoteControlDoobry · 26/03/2023 20:57

No I don’t think it’s SA. I think you know that people on here will say it is.

I agree. I think that’s normal between couples. He stopped.