Where is your ‘bar’ with men?

[Over40Overdating]

There have been a couple of threads recently where women have posted about awful things men have done and the responses have been split into ‘grim’ and ‘be kind’.

We obviously all have different relationships and standards but where is your bar for men and their behaviour, in and out of relationships?

I used to have such a low bar it was under the ground but thankfully getting better at raising it. Reading some of the threads on here make even my lowest bar seem high, at times.

How high is your bar? For people who need help raising theirs, what’s your advice?

Somebody has to make every aspect of life better with them in it than it is with just me in it. And I have a pretty brilliant life, so that’s how high the bar is set!

DH is great. He isn’t perfect, but our relationship is.

In terms of how to raise your bar: get to a place where you really really like yourself. Once that’s the case, you won’t want to damage or limit yourself with relationships which aren’t more enjoyable than the time you spend with yourself.

My bar is that the person has to actually want you to be happy.
So many people are with people who put them down, don't care about them, don't care if they're miserable as long as they themselves are happy and getting what they want.
No. I need a supporter and partner who actually cares for me and I'll return that.
Thankfully, I have a dh who is that person. We have many ups and downs but can always come back from the downs because of that.

It was below the gutter, now I know my worth and don't believe a man could ever reach my standards

Outside of a relationship I won’t tolerate mansplaining or misogyny.

Ditto relationships but with the addition that I’m not his mother. I don’t do his ironing, life admin, or his family’s presents. I don’t deal with the ex-wife either. I’m not his kids step-mum, I’m Dad’s girlfriend.

He’s not perfect but he’s a 50/50 dad, self-sufficient and capable. And he buys clothes that generally don’t need ironing 😁

My life has to be better with them in it, than without. This can be quite a difficult equation sometimes - so sometimes they can add massive value in one area, but detract in another - but still, you get the gist! The only non negotiable is really, really good sex.

In the stratosphere according to mn

I'm routinely shocked and appalled by what women are putting up with.

Even worse they appear to not even realise how awful it is

@ComtesseDeSpair I love the height of that bar!

All this “be kind” stuff is bizarre. For me, just expecting people to “be normal” is enough to weird out 90% of weirdos. The stuff women on mumsnet put up with is just plain weird.

But the corollary to that is also making sure your own behaviour would pass a decent man’s bar as well. I sometimes think about the jealousy and controlling behaviour (passed off as insecurity), the spiteful stepmums, the anti-MIL DIL and think… well, no wonder you are stuck with these horrible men. You’re a pretty crappy partner yourself!

*weed out

@Dracuuule this is a really good point. One half of the relationship thinking only their needs and happiness matters is a common theme lately. And I’ve been in that situation myself and allowed it. Madness! Bars ahoy!

@PauliesWalnuts a practical man. I like it. Ironing is for the devil.

But the corollary to that is also making sure your own behaviour would pass a decent man’s bar as well

@MarieRoseMarie yes! Great point. I’ve definitely been the problem too, in some of the more low bar relationships.

It's hard to answer this in the abstract because I can only think about my own relationship. There are things that I'm fine with that would probably bother other people (DH's tendency to leave old socks lying around and to wear his clothes to rags are two that spring to mind) but he's also absolutely lovely and brilliant so who cares about socks? But I suspect that if I posted on here about socks someone would tell me it was symptomatic of a disrespectful attitude. He also puts up with the small annoying things I do.

OTOH nastiness, unkindness, infidelity etc- absolutely not.

My bar would be that the man has to have the same values and life goals as me. I’m not interested in someone who doesn’t, where there can’t be any longer term future.

So, I want to have kids in future and to get married. I also expect my partner to be working and to expect to work. I expect them to appreciate me and like me and that my life is better with them in it.

I wouldn’t accept shit and know I’m worth far more so wouldn’t consider a man who was a liar or flakey. But I don’t have low self esteem, so I would never think I deserved shitty behaviour.

1. If I imagine bringing him with me to a party/funeral/walk, is it better with him there than it would be if I were alone? If not, is it at least as good/ok?

2. Does he behave the way I expect myself to behave, i.e. is he being as decent, kind, thoughtful, productive etc as I expect myself to be? (most men I've dated have fallen short of this, which I think is why as women we often don't even believe we can hope for someone who lives up to our personal standard. My husband is the first person I dated who did fulfil this)

Those are the main bars. I also have some non negotiable "nos" so it's an instant dumping if he is aggressive/violent to me or to anyone, repeated sulks, rudeness esp to people at work. (Obviously I do think of context e.g. if someone has just dropped a hot coffee on him and he is in pain and yells "what are you doing???!" that's different from treating people with contempt in a normal moment.)

Mine has been way too low. Going to work on myself before I measure any new men against ‘the bar’.

My bar was pretty low. My ExH didn't 'help' with the children, would regularly go out drinking until 2am (and sometimes much later), didn't know how to work a washing machine, his job was 'more important' than mine but it brought in £10k less (so if a DC was ill I had to stay home, not him). He was regularly emotionally and verbally abusive and on one occasion tried to throttle me. He had an affair, I took him back, and he finally left for his next affair partner.

I then did six months of counselling. I could see his behaviour for what it was - abuse. I mentally made boundaries and bars. My bar rose considerably because through counselling I realised I was worth more.

I now have an amazing DP who raises my three children as his own, looked after me and the kids for two years during my Long Covid (when I only had the energy for work and spent the weekends asleep or on the sofa) and does 50% of the cooking/cleaning/washing.

I'd been a single full-time working mum of three for a while when I met him and I made it clear that I was with him because I wanted him, not because I needed him.

Mine was no sex until in a steady relationship. Make them wait . Never did any thing sexually I was ready for or felt uncomfortable with . Absolutely no photos or filming where sex was concerned. I would not tolerate any shit from his family or friends. Set the bar / boundaries early on in the relationship .

I also judge a man is decent by the way he treats ALL women with kindness and respect, no matter their age looks or weight.

My bar is set very high.
However, I don’t need a man to have children with, I’ve done all that and I think this makes a huge difference as I really don’t have to tolerate any old crap. I’m a feminist and an advocate for women’s rights. As I’ve got older I’m friends with feminists and women ( and a few men) who hold the same beliefs as me. I won’t entertain twats. It really is as simple as that.
I have lots of friends and I don’t want some random man trying to talk to me. I don’t smile and coo when I see a man with a child- so what? I’ve been there and done all the hard work.
I am married. I met my lovely dh later in life. He does all the food shopping, cooking from scratch. We both do laundry dust, and vacuum. He is a feminist and the least misogynistic man I have ever met. I would not have married him if he didn’t enrich my life or make it easier.
I think it’s harder for women who want to settle down and have children, unless you are prepared to use a sperm donor which has lots of benefits.

Kindness, love, respect, patience, commitment, compassion, mutual attraction.

I don't think it's much to ask and I expect to give the same in return - but going by some threads on here, my bar is set pretty high!

This is great!

I used to jump from relationship to relationship, always wondering why I ended up with dickheads. Now I've been single for 2 years I've got to a place where a man would have to make life more pleasant and if he didn't... off he fucks. Because I'm no longer scared to be alone I'm no longer in a place where I'd put up with a dickhead out of fear.

My bar has always been based a bit on how my dad was with my mum, and me. He taught me to be completely independent, did far more household chores than my mum so she could focus on her career, was very affectionate and empathetic, and also gave me the gift of sport. ExH came close but really missed the empathy chip, and struggled to express emotion or deal with conflict, which made our marriage collapse eventually.

DP however is great. He accepts me as i am and thinks I'm amazing (even when I don't think it), is committed to working through problems together, is proud of my career and has no hang ups that i'm the higher earner, shares my love of the outdoors and even learns things he wouldn't normally just so he can do it with me. Also does all the things i hate/am not good at which makes my life easier (cleaning, and driving!). He isn't as effusive as i am, but affectionate and shows his love with gestures rather than words.

Attraction is huge for me (more great advice from my dad - to pick a man who's face i like as i'd be waking up to it for the rest of my life - and it wouldn't get any better with time). Another important one for me is liking their natural scent - it's the smell you'll have around you for a lifetime after all. Met him on an app in my mid 30s and tbh i'm not sure i would have appreciated him as much in my 20s. With age comes wisdom about what really matters!

This x 100000!!! If you don't love yourself how the hell you gon to love somebody else!