Long - need helping texting Ex Dh that our DD doesn't want to see him

[Wasbumper]

I'm looking for some advice about how to word a text to my EX-DH to say that my 12 year old DD doesn’t want to see him at the moment. Arragement is currently – one week Thurs for dinner, stay over Friday night. Next weekend stay all weekend. Apart from when he plays his sport, then she is either made to sit on the pitch alone or she is dropped back to to me as her 15 yr old DB also plays the sport. She hasn't wanted to go for about 18 months due to this but he refused to believe its an issue.

we co-parented well for 5 years, Christmas together, coffee on pick up etc, but he has a very short fuse and a fiery temper and is very intimidating. He shouts and swears a lot at them for not listening, not tidying etc which is why she doesn’t like going. I have tried talking to him multiple times explaining what would help her enjoy it more, he thinks I am meddling and making a big deal out of nothing as he does nothing wrong.

Six months ago he was in my house trying to convince my crying DD to go with him she adamant she didn’t want to go, crying her eyes out. He got so angry with her (and me, even though I was saying it would be fine etc) he screamed at both of us you can F’ing keep her then you can F’Off. Since then I've stopped all contact with him directly about contact after the previous twelve months of trying to explain how he can help her visit by being less angry shouting less and spending more time with her etc

he views this as me being controlling, causing trouble and doesn't believe there's any issues with anything he does or says(very much like when we were married). Since then he contacts the kids directly about weekend plans she feels too scared to say she doesn't want to go as when she has done in the past he minimises her feelings, so she feels guilty for not going (he told her that she makes him feel bad and that she needs to stop acting up)

Weekend just gone, she was due home with me for five hours – my DS was due to play sport with his dad. They both came into the house in floods of tears my daughter was physically shaking - dad had said to my 15 year old I'm going to F ING hit you in a minute. This was because they hadn't got down the stairs fast enough. I said I wanted to go out and tell him that we needed to sit and talk to him as he cant threaten the kids (both kids begged me not to as he would go mad) I said those exact words to him and he went absolutely mental, swearing started saying he could say what he F ING liked and then drove away with his door hanging open round the culdesac. I told him to leave my sons kit and I would get him there as he was clearly fuming, said he would make sure my son didn't play due to his behaviour, he then drove towards me which my daughter saw - she screamed thinking I was about to be run over. she was physically shaking and crying after this.

My son got in the car with him I begged him not to as I didn't feel it was safe but he chose to and said it would only get worse if he didn't go. He told me afterwards he his dad drove really fast the entire journey and he had to tell him to slow down many times, I was petrified they were going to get into an accident. my son also said that he spent the entire journey raging about my behaviour what I've done and the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. He did apologise to my son saying he shouldn't have said what he did.

He won't listen to anything I have to say about the children he believes he's right please help me as I am so beyond anxious having to get in touch with him to tell him my DD wont go this weekend (not helped that its my DS bday and EX-DH bday this weekend) My daughter isn't sleeping well and her anxiety is leading her to stop eating at the mere mention of his name and she wont leave my side. How do I tell him she isn’t going and for him not to try and force contact by texting her – he will go mad.

Wow!!!

He will go mad??? Tough luck

What a vile bully

please get a ring door bell so you can record his future outbursts

dont fear this man - you are all terrified of him abs he is using that to control yoy

tell him she is not going and if he wants to see her to take you to court

Send him an email rather than a text.

Simply say on it something like DD is at an age where she can make up her mind on whether to see you. At the moment she does not want to. I am encouraging her to continue to see you. I will inform you as soon as she changes her mind.

Then don't respond to any texts, emails or other communication from him at all about this or any other issue about her.

If he stupidly takes you to Family Court CAFCASS and then the judge will want to speak to your DD on her own about her wishes.

You need domestic violence support. Your DD should not have to live with such volatility and anger and nor should you, it's abusive. I feel for you because I had the same but found DV support very helpful and Emma Katz's book about coercive control made sense. She's good on podcast. I'm so sorry. But in terms of moving forward and protecting your daughter, you need to access support and help with boundaries. ❤️

Oh and if your son still wants to see his dad tell your son that he needs to be picked up and dropped off by his dad at the end of the road.

Your son is 15 and old enough to be aware so told that sometimes people especially vulnerable ones like his sister don't want people particularly adult men they are scared of around them. Explain to him that his sister is vulnerable due to her age and sex.

I do worry about your poor son though. He clearly feels obligated here

You should also tell him that if he doesn’t want to go then he absolutely shouldn’t

No kid wants to spend time with a bully especially when it’s their own father

I’m so sorry you have to deal with that. Neither of your children should be seeing him.
I think you need to tell multiple agencies that he’s out of control and start with him driving his car at you and the fact your youngest saw and now won’t leave your side.

She needs to tell the school she is scared of her father head off any reports of you being the problem

I’d email too, tell him his daughter won’t be going until further notice due to his behaviour. Let him say what he likes, fact is it’s his fault not yours. He won’t listen anyway so I’d just tell him and then don’t open emails, block him if you need to. Your son presumably has a phone so can contact you if need be, I wouldn’t speak to their father again.

You are putting too much care into not hurting the feelings of someone who doesn't give a shit about anyone else's.

Would dd be willing to block her dad once you've text him? It sounds like he's almost certainly going to text her some angry words in retaliation(being polite here ) and if she's not ready to block dad then you need to work on getting her to agree to block dad. She may be tempted to unblock, read then reblock which will also be upsetting.

If you text her dad then you're also going to have to talk to your son about it. He will be the one hearing his rants when she stops going and you don't want dd to overhear what her dad has been saying about her when ds comes home from contact. Do you think ds will be safe from him once dd stops going ? A judge would allow a 12 and 15 year old to choose whether or not to have contact with dad so I'm not saying ds shouldn't go too but I would be terrified what might happen each time.

My suggestions

• leave as long as you can between the text and day seeing his dad.
• do not let him in your house- especially if dd is in. If you must talk it needs to be out of earshot of the kids.
• make sure that ds understands that if his dad's behaviour spirals then it's not his sister's fault. He must not pressure her into changing her decision using emotional blackmail (his safety) as a factor.
• you will be happy to discuss dad's behaviour with ds when dd can't hear it. He will need to unload but she can't know because she might reverse her decision for the wrong reasons.

So because you are scared of his reactions you haven’t safeguarded your children against this man? You left your DD to deal with him all alone even though you know she is intimidated by him and doesn’t actually want to see him. Your DS is even trying to appease him to protect you. You need to stand up to this bully to show your DD she doesn’t have to accept treatment like this.

wow that is quite the scene he’s made. It’s completely unacceptable behaviour from
your ex. Your poor kids.

the key thing here is you and your DD do not need his permission for her not to go. You’re not going to get his approval for this decision. He’s obviously very emotionally immature and can’t see things from other peoples point of view.

I think it’s quite tricky as your dd has her own phone.

I would have a chat with her about what she wants to do. Let her know you’ll fully support her if she doesn’t want to go and will facilitate this. Either then she can tx him from her phone if she doesn’t want to go. If it were me I’d then with dds agreement take her phone for a while to shelter her from the inevitable fall out - or you tx but still her take phone. Just say… DD won’t be going to yours this weekend.

If dd won't block her dad then you'll need to consider changing her number and not give it to her brother so he can't be pressured into giving it to his dad. Are you sure that ds wants to go? If it's about the sport then is there another place that he can play?

Don't text him.

Speak to both kids and ask them individually what they want to do. If your DD doesn't want to see him (understandable) then is she happy with him being blocked on her phone so he can't contact her at all?

LIkewise for your DS - does he still want to see his Dad or keep indirect contact via text?

Once you know what they both want, then I would send your Ex an email along the following lines:

Following on from what happened last weekend, DS & DD have told me that <details of what arrangements they want>.

Both DS & DD were extremely distressed and frightened after you threatened to hit DS. DD was incredibly upset to witness you driving your car at me when I attempted to talk to you. I was extremely concerned for DS' safety when you drove off with him in the car at high speed. DS felt he had no alternative than to go with you as, in his own words, it would be worse if he didn't go.

Any communication about DS & DD will take place over email. Should either of them wish to change the arrangements then I will let you know.

If he kicks off with threats and what not, then give him a single line back saying that you are not going to respond any further to abusive messages, and that if he has an issue with the arrangements then he is welcome to take the matter to court.

And I do think you need to try and take a step back from this situation and have a think about why you are so concerned about his feelings. He'll go mad - so what? Mute him and block his number. He'll pester DD - block his number from her phone. If he turns up at the house and kicks off - call the police.

My son does feel obligated to go and thinks he can get through to him, make him listen to get him to change. He says he can deal with it and that I can't stop him going - which is true.

I have supported my DD by never forcing her to go and dealing with his rage about it for ages now. It was her decision to start seeing him again after the first incident, probably because he can contact her direct on her phone. I think your right about stopping phone contact but her DB is so upset at the prospect of her not going (prob cos of the fallout) that he pressures her inadvertently as well. I would imagine from his contact with dad.

I take your point about being scared about confronting him, he is worse with me than anyone. That's why I escaped the marriage to get away from him and his bullying and control (in every way possible) I have tried supporting contact and we did it so well for so long. But it's all changed. And in still terrified of him, much to my shame.

They both hate him shouting at me because he is out of control, so im worried that are shielding me by trying to appease him and keep the boat steady. I have always been the go between for her until 6 months ago, I stupidly hoped it would be better for them if I wasn't winding him up. How stupid I've been.

I don't think your DS should see him either. He threatened to hit him, he drove dangerously with him in the car. Just because DS feels like he has to in order to defuse the situation is not a reason to put him through it.

I would call the police over the whole incident, not least him driving straight at you.

You speak to your son and explain exactly what’s happening to his sister, and that she simply can’t cope with going and doesn’t want to and he has to stop pressurising and and accept that. If he chooses to continue going that’s up to him but give him the opportunity not to go

as to the ex send an email /text along the lines of dear twat, Jane can no longer cope with your behaviour towards her. She is not sleeping, eating whatever and is afraid of you. She no longer wants contact and at 12 is old enough to make that decision. She gets very upset with the constant badgering via phone so it’s been decided to block you number so please contact me. I am sure you want what’s best for her.

then I would block his number on her phone
If he threatens going to court just say ok that’s fine i will wait to hear from your solicitor

in the meantime write every single incident down, with dates and times as evidence

You are all afraid of him OP . You your DD and your poor DS . It doesn’t sound like it is in any of your interests to be seeing him . I think you all need some counselling and need legal advice to support your children not being forced to see him . They are very much of an age where the Courts will support their wishes. He sounds like he is a significant risk to all of you , time and time again we all see families harmed by an ex - please don’t think it won’t happen to your family .

My son does feel obligated to go and thinks he can get through to him, make him listen to get him to change. He says he can deal with it and that I can't stop him going - which is true.

Fair enough, but at age 15 your DS is also mature enough to understand that it's not appropriate to pressure other people to do things they don't want to, just to make life easier for himself.

If he chooses to go then that's fine and you will support it. But he cannot pressure your DD to go, and you need to tell him that you will not tolerate any attempts from him to try and persuade her - as far as he is concerned the topic of Dad is off-limits for your DD. And if he's not sure he can manage that, then this is a sign that perhaps the relationship with his Dad is not a healthy one.

I have tried supporting contact and we did it so well for so long. But it's all changed. And in still terrified of him, much to my shame.

It's nothing to be ashamed of. But now is the time for you to step back, to acknowledge that actually it is not your responsibility to "support" contact - he's a grown adult with two teenagers where he is perfectly capable of making arrangements with them directly. And if one or both of them choose not to see him because he's an abusive nightmare, then perhaps he needs to think that actions have consequences.

Now is the time to set your boundary. You have an iron wall in front of you and he can only get past that if you let him.

That iron wall is blocking his phone number, not letting him in the house, and not speaking to him directly unless there is a dire emergency. If he turns up on the doorstep then you don't open the door (if you don't have a doorcam - e.g. Ring - then get one, as these are very handy for keeping records of abusive behaviour). If he shouts and screams then you call the police. If he sends your DD abuse on the phone then you block his number.

His arrangements with the kids are none of your business - that's on him to sort out. However when your DD comes to you and says she doesn't want to see him anymore for perfectly valid reasons, then you bring her behind the iron wall and help her stay out of his range. It's not your responsibility to try and persuade her to see an abusive man. It's not your job to do his dirty work and convince her to have contact. He can think what he likes - if he thinks you aren't supportive or you're interfering, then so what? He's wrong but he can think whatever, because his opinion does not matter to you any more.

Your best weapon is indifference, and a calm refusal to engage with him. If he wants to threaten court - well he should pop off to court and see how he gets on. At age 13 and with a catalogue of his shitty behaviour, it would be highly unlikely that a court would make her see him.

PS - men like this have a choice in their behaviour. I bet he doesn't scream and threaten when he's at work with his boss? Does he shout and get abusive with his team mates when playing sport? I bet not. He chooses to do this with you and the kids because he is a bully. He will happily pick on you and the kids because he thinks you aren't a threat to him and that you will scurry round trying to fix everything whenever he raises his voice. I bet he won't go and pick on people his own size. Keep this in mind when dealing with him. He's a bully but he's also a coward.

He drove his car at you? He needs reporting.

For balance - would it be worth suggesting family therapy for him and the kids? I doubt it, just throwing it out there. He sounds like he has real problems that aren’t consistent with parenting.

So because you are scared of his reactions you haven’t safeguarded your children against this man?

Yeah, she's the bad guy 🙄

Your children will be watching your behaviour right now and it will have an effect on how they conduct their future relationships.

Your son is right about contact being his choice but he must not pressure or take it out on his sister when he's inevitably the victim of his dad's anger. While I understand that it's easier for your son if his sister is there, the only acceptable level of abuse is zero and she doesn't have to tolerate it from anyone. It is completely understandable why she's had enough and she shouldn't have to be a human shield to protect her brother either.

You need to be a role model and not let your ex dominate you any more. (I hope that the joint christmases aren't going on any more) Keep ex out of your house and grey rock. Pussy footing around his feelings risks your kids doing the same if they find themselves in an abusive relationship. He is responsible for his behaviour and I hope that your dd knows that she's not the reason for it. He'd be like that with any child he had because he's a bully. I bet he's not like that with people like his boss.

Joint therapy with an abusive person is never recommended as any disclosures can be used to abuse outside the therapy session.

At 12 she's of an age where if he pushed it to court he wouldn't stand a chance. I'm assuming your son is younger so you'd need to keep evidence if he doesn't want to and their dad pushes it. So, if you aren't calling the police i'd send emails to him...listing what happened at various times. It's all good as a record.

For those saying...why aren't you protecting etc - it's actually quite difficult to legally remove existing contact schedules for children <12, there needs to be evidence of his behaviour. Putting children through providing evidence against their father is actually a thing you have to weigh up next to the alternative of seeing him.