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Original poster

What’s the difference between a toxic relationship and abuse?

108 replies

Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 10:01

Not that you should stay in either cases.

A toxic relationship implies responsibility on both sides. An abusive one side. (I know there are 2 people in an abusive relationship).

When I was in court the judge said one time “we” were in a toxic relationship not that “I” was in an abusive one. Then went on to say he had abusive behaviours and denied contact with dc. Toxic implies blame on both sides doesn’t it. Victim blaming.

OP posts:
Sparklfairy · 22/03/2023 10:07

I'm not sure it's victim blaming. They're overlapping descriptions IMO. So my abusive relationship was toxic, but not just because he was abusive.

I think it's also important to note that acknowledging a relationship is toxic means there's no hope for it. Often women stay or go back because they hope he 'won't be abusive anymore'/'if only he wasn't abusive' whereas if you look at it from the perspective of 'this relationship is toxic' it can be much healthier.

I'm not sure of the backstory but I'm sure that judge has seen women go back time and time again. The victim 'you are abused by an abuser' mentality isn't always helpful, sometimes it makes them feel more powerless.

Original poster
Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 10:11

An abusive relationship is absolutely toxic but a toxic relationship is not abusive? I wonder where they overlap. I can imagine it must be so hard to differentiate as a judge when you have both sides telling different stories.

OP posts:
Sparklfairy · 22/03/2023 10:37

Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 10:11

An abusive relationship is absolutely toxic but a toxic relationship is not abusive? I wonder where they overlap. I can imagine it must be so hard to differentiate as a judge when you have both sides telling different stories.

Sorry, I meant that the non-abusive elements of the relationship can still be toxic. Speaking of my own anyway. He wasn't always abusive, there were elements that 'worked' very well, but when I look back at the relationship as a whole, it was all pretty toxic.

It may well be just the judge's way of saying, 'this relationship did not and could not ever work, you're not good for each other', or there may be some unconscious bias attached to the statement that they think a true abusive relationship means the abused cowering in a corner and taking the abuse without ever speaking up.

Perhaps the judge meant 'toxic for your kids'?

Original poster
Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 10:54

Yes it was definitely toxic for the kids and it was family court after all. It just felt like he wasn’t really sure where the blame lied but then he stopped contact with the dad and they stayed with me. I wish they would use the right terminology as a victim it’s very triggering.

I remember my ex agreeing in court that he threw objects that accidentally hit the children but was aimed at me (he didn’t mean to hit the child he was very sorry for that) but he didn’t like the comment I made about his mum. Saying toxic implies joint blame, I provoked him by making a comment. Is throwing things an abusive behaviour or just abusive I wonder?!

OP posts:
Original poster
Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 10:59

I now wonder where that line is between I’m angry so I reacted and it was wrong to I’m angry so I reacted to hurt you because it made me feel better to punish you for making me angry. He claimed it was the first for his actions.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 22/03/2023 11:15

Toxic implies blame on both sides doesn’t it

No. If a relationship has abuse in it, it is toxic. There's no reference to who is creating the toxicity.

WomensLandArmy · 22/03/2023 11:16

Semantics

Original poster
Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 11:22

@Watchkeys can a toxic relationship have no abuse? Or are toxic behaviours abusive no matter what the intent? Is people pleasing abusive even in response to stopping someone’s anger, it’s definitely toxic and controlling?

My ex called my behaviour of withdrawal (which I didn’t know I was doing I was just afraid of him) as abusive to him which made him worse.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 22/03/2023 11:26

Both parties play a part in a toxic relationship. One party plays the victim role. That doesn't mean that the abuse is their fault, but it does mean they stay to receive more.

Why are you hung up on the semantics here? What difference does it make? That's a genuine question, I'm not being cocky.

Original poster
Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 11:40

@Watchkeys I don’t know, I guess it’s hard to accept the part you play in your own demise. I was a fool for being me and taking all that I took. I can’t help but feel responsible for being that type of person, to try and love someone to be different when I should have walked. It makes me decent but it makes me stupid. I was a victim, he made me a victim, I don’t know which it is? I definitely had parts about me that looked good to him and made me easy. Are those my fault, well I couldn’t help them. His behaviours are his fault (he couldn’t help that) but I played a big role in taking them and thinking I could change him. Its my fault that I was me I guess? I’m not a victim now though which is that matters I suppose. I know what part I played. I must sound so confused.

OP posts:
Original poster
Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 11:50

I also tried to control him and myself because I felt powerless to change it or get out, that wasn’t even an option.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 22/03/2023 11:51

I can’t help but feel responsible for being that type of person

This is the thing though. You learned it somewhere. Someone (usually a parent) taught you that this was the right thing to do, and that it would make your life better, make other people's lives better. Being 'that type of person' is what you did, in your relationship, because you wanted to do right, by yourselves and others. Where is the fault there? You were doing your best. Weren't you?

mewkins · 22/03/2023 12:05

Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 11:40

@Watchkeys I don’t know, I guess it’s hard to accept the part you play in your own demise. I was a fool for being me and taking all that I took. I can’t help but feel responsible for being that type of person, to try and love someone to be different when I should have walked. It makes me decent but it makes me stupid. I was a victim, he made me a victim, I don’t know which it is? I definitely had parts about me that looked good to him and made me easy. Are those my fault, well I couldn’t help them. His behaviours are his fault (he couldn’t help that) but I played a big role in taking them and thinking I could change him. Its my fault that I was me I guess? I’m not a victim now though which is that matters I suppose. I know what part I played. I must sound so confused.

OP I really feel for you. No one goes into a relationship expecting to be treated badly by the other person. Lots who haven't experienced this are so confused about why you would stay etc, thinking that you must have contributed to the issue. I know how abusive behaviour creeps in and goes hand in hand with lies, gaslighting, fake promises and everything else. The truth is anyone can find themselves in an abusive relationship because manipulators can be very very good at masking.

I would feel the same as you about being called toxic. I think it's such an unhelpful word that is thrown around a lot and means bugger all. Lots of people will have an opinion on what you should have done etc but try to keep the noise out.

Just because a judge described the relationship in this way does not change your experience of it or take away any of the trauma of living in it.
Look forward and be really grateful that you're no longer living in that. X

Original poster
Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 12:06

yes I did the best with what I knew back then. I know different now. He never gave me the chance to really take charge of what was happening. I was the type of person who liked to help but I’m also quite intelligent to things once I learn if that makes sense, I got quite high academically. So intellectually good but emotionally not so. I like to read and learn things, I was learning about him very quickly and used to challenge his behaviour but it made everything worse. He always used to say you think you’re so clever don’t you. I knew something was wrong very early on but he scared the life out of me so I tried to stop the triggers. Which is not the right thing to do. It was only when he said out loud if you don’t remove yourself from in front of my I’ll do something we will regret that I left.

OP posts:
Nooyoiknooyoik · 22/03/2023 12:07

There can be a perception of abuse by the victim even if the abuser doesn’t think they are being abusive or may feel that they themselves are being abused. That would be a toxic relationship.

Watchkeys · 22/03/2023 12:11

Who scared you into behaving a particular way before he did? Family? It's usually family. They don't have to be deliberately horrible, but they can dismiss your feelings and teach you to do the same.

Original poster
Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 12:13

@Watchkeys I don’t know really. I’ve just never been a fan of confrontation or loud noises. I wonder now whether I’m just wired a little differently.

OP posts:
Quitelikeit · 22/03/2023 12:15

Op

The judge described your relationship as toxic because it was.

The fact that your relationship became toxic was not of your making.

You stayed because no one ever walks at the first sign of trouble (well some folk do) but it becomes a lot trickier when children are involved, finances are entangled and throw housing into the mix and those things are massive stumbling blocks to getting out. Not to mention the fear - if violence is present

It sounds like you are processing things still and that’s ok

What was the outcome of the court case?

Original poster
Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 12:17

I also wonder if he just couldn’t get from me what I literally couldn’t give him so instead of leaving he tried to force and manipulate it thinking feeling it was something wrong with him when in actual fact I’m not quite typical. Eg I’m not a fan of kissing, it wound him up.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 22/03/2023 12:17

Did you speak about your feelings at home when you were growing up? Did your family respect and take care of your feelings? Or did you feel shushed a lot, have to just put up with stuff not being the way you wanted?

Original poster
Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 12:19

@Watchkeys no I don’t talk to my mum about anything. I don’t know why, I don’t remember being a child. I loved my dad though before he died. I remember hugging him but no one else.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 22/03/2023 12:26

no I don’t talk to my mum about anything

OK, well this is where you learned to silence your feelings. You don't even remember why, but at some point, there will have been a reason that you stopped telling your mum how you felt. It won't have been because she listened to and respected your feelings.

What would happen, now, if you did start telling your mum all about stuff in your life, and your feelings? What do you think she would say?

Original poster
Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 12:30

@Watchkeys yeah that would never happen, I wouldn’t burden her as she has M.S. She would not understand and I would feel a mix of shame and anger that she isn’t a mum a can talk to. I wish I had one of those.

OP posts:
Original poster
Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 12:31

I told her a little while back to stop not picking and she just sulked.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 22/03/2023 12:33

Justwondering3 · 22/03/2023 12:30

@Watchkeys yeah that would never happen, I wouldn’t burden her as she has M.S. She would not understand and I would feel a mix of shame and anger that she isn’t a mum a can talk to. I wish I had one of those.

So, when you were little, like, 4 years old, would you say that you were to blame for having a mum you couldn't talk to?