Husband lost 80k

[crosseydlobster]

I'm just so overwhelmed and have nobody to discuss it with. I don't believe in airing out my relationship problems with other family members so none of them know. During the pandemic my husband was fearful of losing his job. He took all the money from his 401K so we could have a nice sized safety net. It was $80k USD. A few months later he bet it all on the S&P without telling me and lost it all. I was devastated and considered leaving him. I chose to forgive him. Since then I had to take a 50k government business loan to try and salvage my business amidst covid to pay our debt. My business is failing anyhow, I'm working the equivalent of 3 part time jobs (which feels like 2 fulltime jobs), we're saddled with debt all in the midst of me unsuccessfully trying to get pregnant at 40 years old. Had he used that $80k as the safety net we had discussed, I could have shut the business down, the company had a decent amount in the bank at the time, i wouldnt have taken a government loan and it would have covered our payments. I'm so exhausted. I just want to give up but I have to work harder all the time. Sometimes I want to scream at him about how much he screwed this up. But I forgave him and so I bite my lip because what is done cannot be undone and I stayed. I can't take care of myself there's no time, I don't think I'll ever have a baby. Life seems more and more pointless

He is lying to you.

What is he doing to resolve the issue, is he also working 3 jobs?

Your husband must the lying, I agree that what he says happened just does not make sense at all. But regardless of that, you agreed that he'd keep the money as a safety net, which may have been stupid and illogical, but it's what you agreed. Then he used it for something else, didn't do what you agreed, presumably without telling you. I'd leave him over that. He may have just made a mistake (doubtful, something else is going on I reckon), but he was disrespectful and dishonest. I reckon it's probably gambling, and yes whilst it's an illness, you don't need to stay with a gambler. You definitely don't need to stay with a gambler who hasn't been honest about their gambling, and is not doing anything to address their gambling problems. Just get out, get a job, and leave. This could get much worse and your life will be even more ruined.

Sorry, I should clarify that withdrawing the retirement savings when he did was stupid and illogical, not then keeping it as a safety net.

And when I say get a job, I mean abandon the failing business and get one full time job, rather than working 3 jobs part time. Surely in the current climate there's full time jobs available?

During the pandemic, betting on the direction that an index like the S&P500 would go exploded in popularity. The reason for the massive popularity was that for a sustained period once the pandemic hit until the end of 2021, the index only went up and went up fast. People who invested in the index made good money. People who invested in the direction the index would go made much more money. That's because they were investing, or more accurately gambling, via a derivative.

Before the pandemic this was a specialised way to invest that was only used by few people, and ususally financial experts. After the pandemic hit, this became a trend that loads of the public piled in to.

There's a company called Robinhood in the US that became hugely popular.

learn.robinhood.com/articles/5Xqnr8xhmvIXFF0WnhBqDA/what-are-s-and-p-500-futures/

I forgot to include the main point. When you invest, or bet, by derivatives, all of the money can disappear and it can disappear very quickly. So what the OP wrote makes sense.

Here's how Robinhood was selling using derivatives to the public:

Takeaway

S&P 500 futures contracts are like pre-ordering a video game…

When a hot new game is scheduled for release, you can order your copy in advance. That way, you don’t have to worry about it selling out before you get your copy. Of course, you also run the risk that the game is a dud and you regret buying. Similarly, S&P 500 futures contracts are advance purchases. If the future price ends up higher than what you paid in advance, you’ll be happy. But there’s also a risk that you’ll end up regretting your decision.

you need to see his bank statements and investments through this process. There is no way he has invested in the s and p. It sounds like he has bought stocks in investments that have gone under or another dodgy investment or gambling. If it was in the s and p it will go up and down but you just wait it out - it’s a longer term investment.

you need to see what he invested in so you can make an informed decision about your relationship and so he cannot pull the wool over your eyes about his gambling.

If you don’t understand the s and p go on you tube and watch an introduction to s and p etf in an isa - that is a uk investment but there are plenty of videos that will explain it in layman’s terms. Some investors put their portfolio on screen, check a few out, you will see what the s and p has done since 2020. I’m sorry but he is lying.

OP,

I wouldn't believe a word out of his mouth.

He's an absolute liar.

Neither trust him nor believe him.

I'm sorry you hoped to have children with this liar, but if you had one now, your life would be so much harder.

You need to wake up to the fact he is playing you.

Gambling is a likely possibility.

You need to focus on protecting yourself as he is not to be trusted.

The idea that you forgave him and now have to bite your lip is ridiculous. Yes you forgave him but you don't just have to put up with whatever crap life throws at you. Assuming (as I know nothing about investing) that the money is definitely gone, or at least gone for now your focus needs to be on the here and now. You say you are working really hard to pay back a loan you took out? Is your dh working as well? How did he feel about the loan you took out? You need to both sit down and look at your outgoings and incomings and come up with a new plan. What are all your options. I can't see how you can throw a baby into this mix however desperate you are until you've both faced up to your new reality which might mean downsizing if you own a home, bankruptcy if you can't afford your debt repayments. You need to take charge though rather than drifting into a mental health crisis because you are so worn down.

I think he's lying. The stock market doesn't work like that, your investment may go down but it can recover.

Is he a gambling addict?

Good point Nauticant.

Op you need to look at the accounts etc so you can understand exactly what he has done. If you don’t understand you need to research it. There are plenty of resources on YouTube etc.

If it is as nauticant has described I would see this as gambling and it would be a deal breaker for me. If he has told you it’s s and p but he has invested in something else that too would be deal breaker. You need to know if this was a one off fuck up or a gambling issue or if he is lying.

I don't understand either.

Is it £80K or $80K

You're mixing dollars and sterling.

Are you saying he had £401K invested and he's cashed that in and it was £80K ( or dollars?)

The OP said he lost it on the S&P. He's presumably led her to believe that he's lost it via investment in the S&P, which isn't possible. What you have described is straight up gambling. Doesn't matter if he lost it betting on the S&P, or on the horses or online poker, it's still gambling. The OP's DH has lost the money gambling, he has not kept it as a safety net as he describes. And he's not even open about the gambling. Someone with a gambling addiction who is not addressing it is a serious danger to the OPs financial security. If he was honest and willing to do whatever it takes to address it, she could be forgiven for giving him another chance. But he's not, he's still in the dishonest deception phase of gambling, so imo she should leave.

A 401k is just the same for a retirement investment vehicle in the US.

*name even

No she isn’t, you are! A 401k is what they call their pension, it’s not an amount. She also says the 80k is USD.

I see.

well as this is a UK site, it's better if she uses sterling not dollars.

OP ought to realise that not everyone is familiar with these types of investments. Might be better to post in the finance forum.

He's a gambler. But, to lose such a substancial amount of money is just not normal. I'd push for the truth. Keep pushing until you feel you've got it.

When lockdown happened the price of fuel plummeted. There were funds that had fuel futures which matured so they were about to take ownership of a huge amount of fuel - something they would normally never come close to as they didn’t need it and had no infrastructure to deal with it. The fact they were dealing with an actual product was normally irrelevant; they would sell it, hopefully for more than they paid, before it was delivered. But as no consumers were buying fuel the forecourt owners etc weren’t buying. In the end the funds had to pay someone to take it. So not only did they lose the whole value of their futures, they had to pay even more. A couple of months later lockdowns began to lift and fuel began to recover but that was too late if you didn’t have tanks to store the stuff in.

Whatever the details of “bet it on the S&P” means, he clearly gambled it away rather than making any kind of sensible realistic investment (eg, buying basic stock). At the very least you should have found out the precise details of what he did with the money rather than just take his word for it - whether it was an honest mistake IE he didn’t fully understand what he was doing or was “tricked” into it by some stupid website or whatever, would at least be a bit better than him knowingly gambling it away.

I dno how to say this without sounding awful, and I completely understand why you're so angry (mainly because what he's told you seems to be a bunch of BS), but it sounds like you had moved on successfully until your business failed.

If he shouldn't have withdrawn the 401K then he shouldn't have withdrawn it, including to fund your business. So his doing this is independent of your personal business failing, but you've inextricably tied the two situations together. Might there be a touched of misplaced blame and anger?

Figuring out these feelings doesn't mean not being angry with him, it just means making sure you are fair and justified, and angry at the right thing. Because as it stands, surely he could be equally angry at you taking out a 50K loan on a failing business?

It sounds like you've both made unwise financial decisions, though his sounds more nefarious from what I can suss from PPs, as it sounds like he shouldn't have lost this money at all, even if the decision to withdraw it was a bad one.

Good luck OP, it sounds like an absolute mess and I would think about the path of your life going forward, and whether you want to be supporting a household with him in it for years to come.

Lol that's very arrogant, I think most of us can cope with seeing dollars instead of pounds and understand what's going on, blimey.

But I forgave him and so I bite my lip because what is done cannot be undone and I stayed

There is something that can be undone. Your decision to stay. It wasn’t a contract written in blood. You are perfectly entitled to change your mind and say it isn’t working. I’m guessing the fact that all your family members are in the dark is another reason you stay. But that’s not a good reason. Leave and tell them the truth or something else, up to you. But duty and a fear of “what will people say” are not reasons to stay in a marriage that isn’t working.

he bet it all on the S&P

This means it was a derivatives trade, not an investment.

Totally possible to lose all your money on that if you dont know what you are doing.

You don't invest directly in the underlying Stockmarket, you take a bet on whether the index will go up or down. And if not goes the wrong way you can lose everything.

A bit like putting everything on red in roulette.