What will replace relationships?

[JoonT]

I may be talking nonsense, but it seems to me that the conventional relationship, the one most of us grew up believing was the norm, is less and less popular. Obviously men and women are always going to fall in love, have kids, and commit to the long haul, but that's increasingly one of many options, rather than 'the norm'. The young seem so much more cynical and wary of relationships. I know three people in their early 30s who've never bothered at all. When I was a kid (in the 1980s) that would have been considered odd.

So, my question is (assuming I'm not talking rubbish), what do you think will replace the conventional relationship? Until very recently, women needed men. Today, women can pursue a career, own property, even have children without a male partner. As a consequence, a lot are now asking "what's the point of getting involved with a man at all? If somebody really awesome comes along, great, but if not, I'm not going to 'settle' like my grandmother did"

However, people still want the same old things. They still want love and company and security. They still want somebody there for them when they're old. And they still want sexual intimacy (as opposed to random/casual sex, which is generally unfulfilling). Do you think something new could fill the void?

I think in the future we will go backwards in terms of sex equality. Men will be able to buy a temporary female companion off the web, much like has happened in the past few years with the rise of sugar baby and prostitute websites. They'll be able to buy either real women or AI alternatives.
Women who want the security of a relationship will have to compete within this arena as well.

I don't think that's true - there's always been social pressure to have a man/get a husband for women. Being a spinster was to be an object of pity or social embarrassment in the past and "being left on the shelf" was a fear that far predates social media.

Oh, I’ve been looking for happily single, for life, childfree people.

Impossible to find.

That’s why I’m so doubtful of this threads/comment/articles/worries of what is going to happen to relationships.
Because nothing seems to be happening, it’s mostly all same as it has always been.

Yeah, but what sort of knobs would do that? Even more, what women in her right mind would even try and compete with that?!

Happy to hear!

Not a teenager, and not really on social media, but attitudes still seem pretty conventional.

Have you been or are currently in a relationship?
Because I swear long term singles (like me) really get to see different side of the world.
Kind of like how parents insist there is no stigma of being childfree.
There is still definitely hierarchy.

Surely men want to feel loved, seen and wanted as much as women do? I don't see how a slave or android could ever fill that need. He would always be conscious that it's just going through the motions.

And if that was the dystopia we're heading for, I would hope that no woman in her right mind would be competing for such a man or relationship. What would they need it for, and where would be in the security in it?

This is a really interesting thread and I do find the way things are progressing these days pretty fascinating.

I'd like to think that being single would be the new being in a relationship. I'm in what people think is a "traditional" / old fashioned* relationship where my DH works and (for the time being) I stay at home. We got married fairly young, long before we had DCs and we were quite churchy when we got married (less so now).

But I know lots more single people than I used to. My dbro is divorced and loves living alone. But he struggles financially as he has to pay child maintenance to his exw and then has only one modest income in his household. I wonder if some people do end up getting together with someone so they can cover their bills or buy a home. Dbro jokes that he would it if he didn't love living on his own so much 😂😬.

Single, childless/child free people don't need much space, but there aren't many small homes available to buy and they aren't great investments ATM. I wonder if this will change in the future with more, small homes being available and there being more demand for them so they would be easily sold on etc.

I think it's a really good thing that people don't feel as if they HAVE to get married and have babies as if it's compulsory. But it's also sad when people, especially women, in my acquaintance, really want to settle down and have a family but can't find anyone. I have a couple of friends in this position now and one of them is seriously depressed over it. She'd always expected the whole nuclear family thing, but waited till her mid thirties when she had a solid career and now just finds men her age waste her time or run a mile if she is honest about wanting to settle down soonish. To me, it looks as if she has a great life without partner or DCs but she's on medication for her anxiety and depression over it all.

*I know this isn't necessarily traditional, but it was in my community

I suppose a small proportion of men like those life-sized realistic dolls, don't they? But I'm assuming they're a weirdo minority rather than men in general.

I sort of agree. But I wouldn't say they'll shift back. What I suspect will happen is that bad marriages, and bad relationships, will become less and less common. Until very recently, women had to have a partner. If you didn't 'win' a man you were a failure and an outcast. So women put up with the most unbelievable shit because anything was better than being on your own.

Women are no longer in that predicament. They no longer have to settle. They can pursue a career, own property, even have a child, without a man. As a consequence, all the toxic, thick, boring and abusive men are being rejected or dumped (hence the rise in misogyny).

My gut feeling is that the number of women in long-term relationships with men will continue to fall, probably for another generation, but will then level out. Hopefully, only the women who really want to be with a particular man, and are really happy, will commit. In other words, the only women (and men) who will marry will be the ones who do it for the right reasons – because they really love the other person and feel so much happier when he/she is there. Nobody will have to marry. The social pressure will no longer exist.

Yes, women can have babies on their own these days. I suggested that to my friend who is desperate to start a family. But when you think through the finances, it's very tough. She's a doctor so works unsociable hours. Little to no family support. Without a partner at home, she would need a live in nanny which is £££ and also means a bigger house with room for said nanny. On one income, even a good income, that's very hard.

I do like the sound of your future though op and hope it comes true!

Thinking about it, I'm not sure the current norm IS normal. We tend to think that the normal, natural thing is for a young man and young woman to fall in love, marry, have children, and live together for 50 years in a small brick box, sharing a toilet, a shower and a bed. But we didn't settle into villages and towns until around 10,000 years ago. So for at least 80% of evolutionary history we were tribal hunter-gatherers. We were also nomadic. We lived in extended groups of around 70 or 100, and the children were raised communally. Plus, of course, we were dead by 30 or 40. Sealing yourself away in a small box with just one person for decade after decade is completely unnatural.

That's very interesting. I read a lot of futurology books (in which scientists try to predict the coming decades). One of the things they predict is that the 'life partner' will be replaced by a series of life partners – one for each stage of life. Of course, this is assuming we really do find ways of slowing and reversing ageing. If people live to, say, 150 in good health, then they will think nothing of marrying four or five times, with each marriage running its course – each maybe lasting 40 or so years.

Maybe the divorces will also be different in nature – less bitter and painful, more calm and philosophical ("well, we've had 50 good years, let's try and stay friends").

Yep. Marriage only really came about because of the move from nomadic life to agricultural life. Land ownership became important and so handing over the land to your offspring became important. Men needed to know they were handing their land down to their offspring, not any old child, so keeping tabs on their woman became important. ie. marriage.

I love the way Abraham Hicks describes the kind of commitment best in relationships: “I like you pretty good, let’s see how it goes”.

I think it’s pretty unrealistic to expect that any people - partners, friends - should stay in our lives forever. It’s a very tall demand.

Have you ever read Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari? I just finished it this week and it touches on a lot of the stuff you're talking about here, from familial relationships when we were hunter gatherers to what our lives will be like in the near to distant future.

It's a really interesting read, I definitely recommend it.

I'm a solo parent by choice (had my child via IVF and a sperm donor) and my situation is certainly not the norm, although it is getting more socially acceptable. It's not what I'd envisaged but I'm happy with the way things have worked out. Yes it is hard on a single salary (mainly because there is no state subsidy for childcare under 3's) and I believe in good quality childcare so I make it work financially (and it's not forever). My hardest time was being childless (not by choice) in my late 30s and trying to date (to find a suitable partner to have a family with). These kinds of men are like unicorns and I wasn't prepared to settle. If you want a children the norm would be to couple up which is what most women end up doing (some because they genuinely want that partner, others because time is running out). I think "together living apart" would be the sort of relationship model I'd be looking for in the future once I'm in a position to date again, as I like my freedom and don't want to be intertwining finances with anyone. Housing is prohibitively expensive and that alone is one of the benefits of coupledom. It's undeniable.

Good post

However, people still want the same old things. They still want love and company and security. They still want somebody there for them when they're old. And they still want sexual intimacy (as opposed to random/casual sex, which is generally unfulfilling)

I think marriage as a financial and legal construct is a bit broken

I think more people will happily stay single

I’d like to see normalising living with friends especially as we age

we need also to work on this generation of kids around gender and roles

as this generations a mess !

To the pp who said you just drift into living together, I definitely won't. I had my home and life turned upside down by my ex choosing to leave for ow. I will never put myself in that position again, where all of the infrastructure of my life tests on someone wanting to sleep with me (or not). I have a professional career, kids aren't babies now so a little more freedom to be had and I moved away from the south east so I could afford a single life. I know half a dozen women, most divorcees but two never married who are v v happy with their lives and the autonomy that they have. They're financially savvy, with pensions, they'll be fine. The "stigma" only matters if you let it. I will happily rebuff anyone who patronises me about me and DP eventually, inevitably moving in together.

It's sitting on my shelf right in front of me as I type😀. I'm about 100 pages in and really enjoying it. Unfortunately, I've got a bad habit of not finishing books. Right now I have five on the go (Kipling's Kim, P. G. Wodehouse's Right Ho Jeeves, Hesse's Glass Bead Game, De Botton's How Proust Can Change Your Life, plus Sapiens), but will probably end up drifting onto something new – too many books, too little time. I also want to read (and not finish) Harari's Homo Deus.

I began this thread on the assumption that we'll soon be living a lot longer. If climate change and overpopulation don't wreck everything, and we find a way through, I'm pretty sure we'll find ways to slow physical ageing. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we're able to extend the lifespan to 120 or 150 – and in good health. 'Cycles' is a good word. Maybe, if the lifespan does increase, we'll evolve a less romantic attitude to relationships. I mean, go into them with the idea that they tend to follow cycles, as you say, and that we must be realistic. So, for example, we'll agree that "OK, we're signing up to produce and raise children together. We'll stick it out until they leave home, and then see how we feel. If we're happy, we'll renew the contract, if not, we'll try and part as friends."

If I had to predict what will happen over the coming decades, I'd say:

First, the number of women who divorce and vow never to re-marry will increase.

Second, the number of people (especially women) who choose never to form a serious relationship, but are happy as long-term single, will also increase.

Third, there will be a huge increase in misogyny and sexual violence. Women no longer need men (they may like them, love them, care about them, enjoy being with them, etc, but they don't need them). They are becoming more choosy, and less desperate. As a consequence, the worst sorts of men find it harder and harder to find anyone. Women won't put up with their shit anymore, and it makes them furious.

Fourth, marriage will become less common, but so will divorce, because the people who marry will tend to be the ones who really want to. In other words, there will be fewer people in long-term relationships, but the ones who are will tend to be happy and fulfilled.

Fifth, long-term/committed relationships will become just one of many lifestyle choices, rather than the norm.

Sixth, friendship will become more and more important. People will devote as much care and time to their friendships as they used to devote to their marriage. There will even be 'friendships counsellors'.

Seventh, we'll continue to experiment with different ways of living – multiple partners, sexless marriages, open marriages, committed but not living together, buying houses with friends instead of partners, and so on.

Still, humans are terrible at predicting the future, so that's probably all balls.

Third, there will be a huge increase in misogyny and sexual violence. Women no longer need men (they may like them, love them, care about them, enjoy being with them, etc, but they don't need them). They are becoming more choosy, and less desperate. As a consequence, the worst sorts of men find it harder and harder to find anyone. Women won't put up with their shit anymore, and it makes them furious.

I read a scientific paper a while back and it put forward a hypothesis that marriage was actually beneficial to the upper class (controlling inheritance) but also TPTB in general, precisely for the reasons you mentioned.

The author said that in societies, where polygamous relationships were the norm, women did not mind being 3rd or even 4th wives as long as it guaranteed them security and financial security as well.
This however left all the "undesirable" men single and very often their rage turned to crime and other violent acts so TPTB found it beneficial to 'level the playing field' so even poorer men could also find a spouse.

A lot of fascinating posts here, thanks.

I've recently thought it would/could be nice to live in a huge house with a good friend and their family. So in this situation two single mums. You're both effectively have your floor, but shared facilities like kitchen, laundry. You have your space, but then also some companionship and support with your own kids if needed. Basically an independent life, but not totally alone. The things you think about when you're feeling fed up!

I totally agree with you! Mine isn't because of love. If I split up, I would happily just want my own little place. Seems like bliss having the peace and quiet, less housework, only myself and DC to think about, etc. I know when I was younger, a fear of breaking up with someone was if I couldn't find anyone else (sad isn't it), now being single seems like a really nice idea! Desirable in fact.

I know a few. Sometimes they feel a bit lonely, but I'd say 99% of the time they are happy. Certainly more happy overall than my miserable married friends