Trans-ish husband. Sources of support.

[TheSquirrelOfDisappointment]

DH has in the last decade or so increasingly embraced his female side. He wears makeup and stereotypically female clothes often. He goes to trans meet-ups. Meanwhile he and I sleep in different parts of the house and I ponder the fact that I'll probably never have any kind of physical affection ever again (except from the cat). Is there any supportive organization out there for women in this situation? I heard about the Beaumont Foundation but they seem to be primarily by/for trans people themselves.

Should I ignore my childhood trauma?
My dad passed away a couple of years ago and I have a telephone relationship with my mother to check if she is still alive.

You'd be surprised. Children are resilient and get over it quickly. They're only really devastated if the split is acrimonious and they are put in the middle. To stay 'for the sake of the children' is NEVER the answer, trust me on that. They know. And they'd much rather have you both happy and apart and they have alone time with each of you than realising you're both miserable.

Trans ideology is literally about stereotypes.

I'm actually quite surprised that people are still so mistaken they think staying 'for the sake of the children' is ever the right thing. In the 1950s, maybe. But this is 2023. I really thought we were more aware now of the danger to children's mental health by staying in an unhappy marriage. I can promise you they will not thank you for it, most end up resenting the mother for staying and the mother-child relationship doesn't recover. Think carefully before you stay and harm them and your relationship with them.

Are you happy?

If not, what steps can YOU take to make this situation less unhappy for you? You won't change him or how he feels but you can change your situation.

Yes. It's not fair for your children to have an unhappy mother in an unhealthy relationship.

Slight off topic but I had to pick this up because I'm GC, but even I would say no- it's not. It's comments like this which give GC a bad name.

Dysphoria is real. It should be treated differently to how it is currently being treated, but there's so much science behind how you literally can look down at your body and think that it's 'wrong' and need to change it. And we know that for people who actually have crippling dysphoria, no amount of therapy can change it. There's also science behind why it then makes these people feel better to present to the world the way females present.

No, it doesn't make them a woman, and you can have an issue with people who then take on offensive traits of being a woman (like DM) but saying that the entire realm of being trans is about stereotypes simply isn't true.

Comments like this make me want to leave mumsnet entirely. It's putting hatred over literal science.

They said the ideology is about stereotypes, which it is. Not that the individual people themselves with dysphoria are pushing stereotypes.

Ideology and individual people are two different things.

Don’t leave, we need sensible posters like you.

'we know that for people who actually have crippling dysphoria, no amount of therapy can change it. There's also science behind why it then makes these people feel better to present to the world the way females present.'

Oh, interesting! Do you have links to this info/science?

Yes! There's so much research out there. To name a few:
www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/626484
academic.oup.com/brain/article/131/12/3132/295849?login=false

Exactly, thank you. That's exactly what I was referring to - trans ideology. Not people with dysphoria.

@TheSquirrelOfDisappointment I'm sorry you have this issue. It is clearly making for an unfulfilled, lonely marriage for you in some ways. You asked specifically about support groups in your post. There are un judgemental online groups who can offer you support whatever you decide is the right thing for you. Sharing your thoughts with those who are in the same, highly complex complex situation can really help you work out whatever solution you feel is best for you and your family. Please feel free to PM me if you'd like further details. Take care.

There's also science behind why it then makes these people feel better to present to the world the way females present.

The way females present? How do we present? Isn’t this just proving that it’s about stereotypes, whether it’s dysphoria or not?
I haven’t read one case of someone bravely transitioning without it largely relying on strict gender stereotypes.

Hi I don't know about organisations that can help, but I'm sure someone here has given you some good avenues to look into.

I just have to say that what he has done to you really cruel. He has effectively abandoned you. In some ways it's like infidelity. He is cheating on you with himself. I think you have been 'left' without him saying or doing anything or moving out.

Emotional neglect hurts. I hope you can decide what to so.

If the trans widows have meet ups I very much doubt they will harangue the op the way people are here. Yes, you have an opinion. No, it’s not your life. She came here for support not a bashing, does anyone here have any support for her??

Fuckin leave him

Your kids will be devastated anyway if you stay. Do you think your kids won't notice him dressing as a woman, being freaked out seeing him with makeup on? Even if he is hiding it he will slip up in the tiny ways and they will notice. They already know you sleep apart. The kids will put all these things together and be very confused, unhappy and is this what you want them to grow up thinking is normal?

Agreed…this issue of coming to terms with such a fundamental identity change as ‘gender’ in a long term partner/ spouse is complicated (especially when children are involved) and such an isolating experience. This woman needs and was asking specifically for support. The good news is that there are dedicated online support groups out there for partners affected by this (not just ones run by trans people like the Beaumont Society). Mumsnet can be so unhelpfully and aggressively opinionated at times they seem to forget some people’s posts are as a genuine cry for help….

@TheSquirrelOfDisappointment

PS My reply above was in response to…@Codlingmoths :
If the trans widows have meet ups I very much doubt they will harangue the op the way people are here. Yes, you have an opinion. No, it’s not your life. She came here for support not a bashing, does anyone here have any support for her??

Personally I think we should be accepting that women can be more masculine and men can be more feminine without being trans. That it is okay to not align with gender stereotypes in regards to make up and clothes and that you can go against stereotypes and still be a man / woman. I don’t think tomboys are trans any more than I think OPs husband is trans if it’s only superficial masculine feminine likes and dislikes. I am not sure what cross dressing looks like for women. It just seems more accepted for women to be more into non stereotypically feminine things.

A man can still be a man and like make up and skirts and a woman can still be a woman and not wear make up or skirts. Pants or skirts or make up or no make up don’t change one’s gender. Maybe less people would need to identify as teams if we accepted that men and women can like and wear a range of masculine and feminine things.

@Freefall212 I think the issue is though when there’s an obvious recognition on one/both sides that the expression of gender identification can extend to making it impossible for a birth assigned male and female to come together intimately without tension arising from feelings there are emotional elements of same sex intimacy which a heterosexual person is naturally going to have difficulty with as presumably would a homosexual/ lesbian person if forced to enter into a heterosexual union. I think it’s really difficult and unrealistic to try and totally differentiate between the purely physical and psychological complexity of gender.

I don't disagree. My husband could decide that my short hair style and clothing choices make me look too masculine and he isn't attracted to a woman who has a non sterotypical female look. He could decide my choices are too masculine and make me look like a man in his eyes and erode his attraction. However that doesn't make me trans. I am still a woman - I just don't wear high heels or make up or dresses.

I would far rather a male child be allowed to like pink and play with dolls and wear a dress than be told he is trans and a girl for liking for those. Or a female child who likes trucks and blue and likes overalls and getting muddy - let her just be a female child who likes less stereotypical female things - no need to say she is trans.

So if my husband liked make-up and dresses - it might erode my attraction but I wouldn't think he was no longer a man and must be a transwoman because he isn't sterotypically masculine enough. Cross dressing or not conforming to gender sterotypes doesn't mean one is transgender.

@Freefall212

Totally agree up to a point! I think there is something further with the whole gamut of gender identity. Sometimes to express an outward manifestation of clothes or hobbies etc is enough to satisfy someone who doesn't clearly feel happy in a stereotypical male/female pigeon hole. But when there's a psychological gnawing away at a person, that there's gender dysphoria and they try to be a partner to a person who fundamentally has got to know them as identifying as their birth sex, then that's really hard. Still much pressure to hold things together and bury the issue to give children stability I think...but at what cost to the mother's welfare? I suppose ultimately that depends on what two people want from a relationship...

I don't want to derail OPs thread but it is an interesting one for me because right from the time I was a very young child, I have always been 'gender non conforming' (I don't even like that term). It wasn't intentional or based on any internal distress or dysphoria, my innate preferences and interests just aligned with more masculine and sterotypically boy preferences and interests and even personality. There were times I wished I was a boy as my interests aligned with theirs and they sometimes excluded me for being a girl but it wasn't that I thought I was a boy, I just wanted acceptance in the boy world. My parents were disappointed as they had been excited to have a girl after their first child being a boy but I wasn't the girl they expected. As an adult there were presumptions that I was a lesbian. However since the whole trans movement has come about, now it seems people think I am a repressed or closeted transman. Personally I see myself as a woman who never fit into the sterotypical women's world but I don't think that makes me a man. So for me I just disagree that gender non conforming behaviour should be interpreted as dysphoria or as being trans.

In an intimate relationship, there are many factors that create and sustain attraction and I am not saying anyone should stay in a relationship where they are no longer attracted to someone because they have changed. People lose attraction for physical changes all the time (i.e. weight gain) and I can see that external changes and expressing one self in a different way in terms of hair cut or clothes or interests or hobbies or lifestyle could be off putting regardless if they are gender related or not. I just don't think that feeling like you don't fit in the small box that society has determined is how men must look and act to be men or how women must look and act to be women means you are trans. Nor do I think that a man or woman who go outside that box are demeaning others. I think we need to really broaden who a man and woman can be. If we continue to push that you must stay in a small box, more and more will identify as trans when they don't fit in the box. When in reality, in my view it is the box that should be bigger to allow a broader expression while maintaining ones gender.