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Original poster

Marriage or child first - deadlock

284 replies

Tara40Fi · 14/02/2023 23:12

Feel I’m in a deadlock with DP. He knows that I want to get married. He wants us to have a child. Told him 2 years ago that I’d love to have a family with him but I want to get married first. So for the past two years we’re in a deadlock. I wait for him to be ready to set a date for the wedding, he waits for me to be ready to start TTC. I’ve addressed it with him several times, he keeps saying that we can get married ‘eventually’, but isn’t interested in taking next steps. Thing is, I’m turning 40 next month so I really can’t wait much longer to start TTC. I feel I’ve already wasted the past two years and I don’t know how much time I have left realistically to have a baby. So I feel like giving in now and starting to TTC. He’s very happy for us to have a baby and I don’t think he plans to run off at first opportunity given that he really wants to start a family with me, but it’s obvious that he doesn’t want to get married…I think I’ve hold off as long as possible, and given my age I just need to TTC without being married if I ever want a child. I own a flat and have a good job, so at least I would be ok financially. Not sure why I’m posting because there’s no real solution I guess…I’m just frustrated that we had another nice (Valentines Day) dinner with me hinting at marriage and him brushing it off and changing the topic :(

OP posts:
Original poster
Tara40Fi · 15/02/2023 11:36

A lot of messages to catch up on, and many very good points to consider, thank you. To answer some questions:

  • together 5 years now
  • talked about our future together after 2.5 years in (when I turned 38 and needed to seriously think about family etc)
  • he’s a couple years younger than I am
  • neither of us was married before or has kids yet
OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/02/2023 11:39

He wants to be able to leave easily if fatherhood isn't as fun as he thinks it is going to be - no pension or savings to split (if he earns the same but doesn't own a house, chances are that there's a lot of money tucked away that he doesn't want you knowing about).

He's also happy to run down your clock to get you to either do it or give him an excuse to meet somebody else - you won't have a baby, so you 'force him' to find somebody else and the moment you have your first hot flush, he'll be off telling younger women 'All I wanted was to be a Dad but she wouldn't have any of it'.

You need to decide whether you want to have a child on your own with your house and pensions safe from not marrying him or whether you want your house and pensions safe but no child - and to have him until he meets somebody younger. And also bear in mind that you might not be able to conceive in any case.

Whatever way you decide, you won't be Mrs Manipulative Twat and your home/finances will be safe.

Offdutypead · 15/02/2023 11:41

Buenosfairies211 · 15/02/2023 11:31

External locus of control? How patronising!

Real life doesn’t always go to plan with milestones being hit in a sequential timely manner like a well oiled machine. Call me naive but marriage involves love and other messy emotions and another unpredictable human being. And women’s fertility doesn’t always fit in to a perfect timetable. Have some compassion and stop blaming the op who has come on-line for support not sneering!

Show quote history

Sentimental naivety is forgivable and even endearing at 23, less so at 39.

dontputitthere · 15/02/2023 11:48

To be honest I'm more concerned at his stringing you along with an 'eventually' getting married. It's intentionally misleading

If he doesn't want to. Fine. You can discuss and you can make your mind up what you want to do knowing this is his stance.

He leads you on with a 'soon' and 'just do x, y, z' first and you're in limbo.

It's this attitude which would concern me. Especially as time is not on your side if you want to have children.

Yes you have property. But as you said the child care looks to be mainly you. Have you discussed this? How will finances work? So many shitty posts on here of women surviving on maternity pay while their partner has 100% of their full time pay...

WhenDovesFly · 15/02/2023 11:57

Maybe he's holding off in case you're unable to conceive. You say he's very keen for a child. If after a couple of years you're still trying, it may seem easier to him to leave your relationship as is, rather than go through divorce. Hopefully that's not the case, but just throwing it in there.

If you go ahead and are fortunate enough to have a baby, I'd definitely give it my surname if it was me.

MarieRoseMarie · 15/02/2023 12:24

Tara40Fi · 15/02/2023 11:36

A lot of messages to catch up on, and many very good points to consider, thank you. To answer some questions:

  • together 5 years now
  • talked about our future together after 2.5 years in (when I turned 38 and needed to seriously think about family etc)
  • he’s a couple years younger than I am
  • neither of us was married before or has kids yet

I wish I could find it but there is a poster on this sub who is a heavily pregnant and now single. She started TTC with her DP and fell pregnant quickly. He suddenly wanted her to terminate, moved out and is now completely NC with the child. It blindsided her and she posts a lot about it.

I am not saying this to scare you. This is realistically your last chance at a child so I think you should go ahead. But you have have to accept the likelihood that this man will not ever see or acknowledge this child. I doubt he will stick around even through the pregnancy.

Sugarfree23 · 15/02/2023 12:34

Op you know time is not on your side, 30% of 37 year olds who decide to TTC will never concieve. If you really want kids, I'd treat him as a sperm donor. Yes many will concieve much older than you, many will use assisted conception, but there are also the many who will never openly talk about it not happening for them.

Look after yourself financially, you might be as well to get legal advice before you consider marriage with him. But remember the child might never happen.

ButterflyOil · 15/02/2023 12:39

Are you sure he wants to TTC? If he knows your line in the sand is marriage and time is running out, then he can use the marriage disagreement to put off TTC until it’s too late.

If he genuinely wants a child and with you, it seems odd to me that he is willing to risk the very real chance it will never happen for the sake of a marriage he says he will do at some point anyway.

He can say all the words he wants about wanting to TTC with you if he is safe in the knowledge you will keep delaying because of the wedding issue.

Having a child together is a lifelong commitment which is bigger than a marriage. You can always get divorced, can’t undo making another human together.

So, either he is willing to TTC in the knowledge he is not quite sure about you as a life partner or he is lying about wanting to TTC in the first place.

Mintsgreen · 15/02/2023 12:43

Tara40Fi · 14/02/2023 23:22

He says his reason for not wanting to get married is that he thinks it’s not important to have a piece of paper documenting our commitment and love. But what bothers me even more is that he says we will eventually because it’s important to me, but it’s a just words and no actions…as the past two years have shown.

The comeback to this is that if he really does think it’s just a bit of paper, no biggie… then he won’t mind ‘just’ doing it for you, would he?

Sorry OP but he doesn’t want to marry you. And it’s a disgrace that he has meant that you have wasted 38-40 on him.

sjxoxo · 15/02/2023 12:44

StarsSand · 14/02/2023 23:27

What a dick.

If you're in the UK- I wouldn't have a baby without being married.

It's not a 'piece of paper' it's something that will give you legal and financial protection if he decides to skip off and fiddle his income to avoid child maintenance like to many men before him.

If you do TTC without being married I suggest you make a financial agreement with him- in that half of the cost of medical expenses etc will be covered by him. If you miss work due to pregnancy he will pay 50% of your lost wages. He will pay you 50% of his wage while you are on maternity leave caring for your child and then he will also pay 50% for any lost wages due to part time work due to childcare.

And Don't give up your job.

Basically he would like you to assume all the financial risk in order to give him what he wants without compromising his own position at all.

This

AthenaPopodopolous · 15/02/2023 12:44

Is it possible he wants to make sure you are able to have a child before he commits to marriage?
Id say crack on trying to conceive as you are getting older and actually marriage would mean he would have rights to your home.
In any case don’t leave it too late. Your future child might be your little flower girl or page boy.

Sugarfree23 · 15/02/2023 12:51

I don't know why that section of my post is underlined.

britneybitch23 · 15/02/2023 13:05

His reasons are irrelevant at this point. You are playing with fire. I can not believe you haven't even started trying and it's only occurring to you now as you hit forty that you are risking your fertility.

You want a happy wedding day. Great, you can have that at 50, 60, 70 whatever with any one.

You can not however have a kid unless you're incredibly lucky at 50. So if you want one and you aren't ambivalent fucking get on with it. You'll be sat crying into your cereal five years from now when he fucks off and leaves you because as he has consistently said, he wants a child. He will have one with someone else and you won't be able too.

So. Either leave him or stay. It doesn't matter at this point. What matters is if you actually do want a child, the carrot you're dangling to get a ring is beginning to expire. Saying that, maybe you're rich and can outsource the job and get a poor vulnerable surrogate to do the job for you.

Puppyseahorse · 15/02/2023 13:25

@Sugarfree23 do you have a ref to a clinical study for this stat?

30% of 37 year olds who decide to TTC will never concieve.

Puppyseahorse · 15/02/2023 13:28

OP, how did the conversation go when you were 38, and you say you started talking about the future? He said he didn’t want to get married, and you waited for him to propose?

I think you need to take control of the situation: decide what you want, and how to get it. Don’t wait around for this man to determine your future any further.

moozles · 15/02/2023 13:47

Or maybe he see's having a child together a huge commitment in itself?

GoldDuster · 15/02/2023 14:01

Whichever way you come at this, he's dicking you about OP, and I'd be thinking very carefully about whether this is a man to have a child with at all, fertility timescale aside.

If he was serious about a future together with you and a child he would marry you, especially if it's just a piece paper.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 15/02/2023 14:08

britneybitch23 · 15/02/2023 13:05

His reasons are irrelevant at this point. You are playing with fire. I can not believe you haven't even started trying and it's only occurring to you now as you hit forty that you are risking your fertility.

You want a happy wedding day. Great, you can have that at 50, 60, 70 whatever with any one.

You can not however have a kid unless you're incredibly lucky at 50. So if you want one and you aren't ambivalent fucking get on with it. You'll be sat crying into your cereal five years from now when he fucks off and leaves you because as he has consistently said, he wants a child. He will have one with someone else and you won't be able too.

So. Either leave him or stay. It doesn't matter at this point. What matters is if you actually do want a child, the carrot you're dangling to get a ring is beginning to expire. Saying that, maybe you're rich and can outsource the job and get a poor vulnerable surrogate to do the job for you.

So she should saddle a potential human being with these circumstances as its "family life" ?

That's morally wrong imho.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 15/02/2023 14:13

Schoolchoicesucks · 15/02/2023 10:45

Yes. But if they are not married then the mother gets to decide whether he goes on the birth certificate or not. If they were married, he would be able to register the birth. As he won't marry her, he's legally unable to do so.

Show quote history

So blackmail? Fuck me

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 15/02/2023 14:15

MarieRoseMarie · 15/02/2023 10:34

Oh, they don’t bother listening to me. They’re too busy getting married to men who love them and are willing to commit to them. It’s sickening, really 😄

Show quote history

Course they are

mathanxiety · 15/02/2023 14:16

Dump him. Have a baby with donor sperm.

I don't think he wants a baby or to get married. Two years ago you were 38. You're now 40. He surely knows the chance of a baby are getting smaller and smaller as the months go by and were already small at 38.

What was he doing to achieve the goal of fatherhood up to two years ago?

There's something about marriage that he is rejecting.
Is it commitment?
Is it the feeling of being tied down - and if so, what does that say?

I think he's a time waster who likes the fact that you own a flat.

mathanxiety · 15/02/2023 14:17

And you have to ask why he refuses to give you the legal protections that the 'piece of paper' offers.

billy1966 · 15/02/2023 14:20

LimeCheesecake · 15/02/2023 11:31

In my experience - men who claim marriage is just a piece of paper so don’t want to get married, know full well it’s not just a piece of paper, any more then their employment contract is just a piece of paper or their car insurance is just a piece of paper or house deeds etc. they know full well it’s a legal contract and one they want to avoid being in for whatever reason. (If he really thought it was meaningless yet important to you and he wanted you to be happy, he’d go along with getting this meaningless piece of paper to keep you happy. He’s not because he doesn’t think that at all.)

you have to work on the principle the reason he wants to avoid being legally tied to you is that he doesn’t see your relationship lasting and wants it to be as easy as possible to walk away. That might not be the reason, but in the absence of a real explanation - you have to plan for the worse.

at 39 i would try for a baby but be clear the baby is having your surname, you are going back to work full time and while his “traditional” industry may refuse flexible working requests /part time working requests, he is the one who doesn’t want the legal protection of marriage so he has to at least apply for part time /flexible working.

keep the house in your name, make all decisions based on the premise your relationship is temporary, even if you do end up spending the rest of your lives together.

This.

He's not a good man.

He's one who absolutely wants to and will put himself first.

He has the door open enough and one foot out it if things don't go his way.

Your pleadings for him to marry you are absolutely cringe, as is his dangling it the way he does, as a possible reward for you down the line.🤢

He is stringing you along until you have backed yourself into a corner, he will not give an inch and will wait you out.

You have chosen poorly.

Good men who are genuinely in love and think you are the one, don't behave like this.

Guys who have one eye open for a better bet and are passing time, do just this.

You deserve so much better than making so little of yourself for a twat like him.

Like he's some great prize🙄

mathanxiety · 15/02/2023 14:23

YYY to @StarsSand

You have a self centered man on your hands. This means he is not parent material.

Start exploring your other options.

AnotherEmma · 15/02/2023 14:26

Tara40Fi · 15/02/2023 11:36

A lot of messages to catch up on, and many very good points to consider, thank you. To answer some questions:

  • together 5 years now
  • talked about our future together after 2.5 years in (when I turned 38 and needed to seriously think about family etc)
  • he’s a couple years younger than I am
  • neither of us was married before or has kids yet

So you got together when you were 35 and obviously needed a year or two to see how the relationship went before making any big decisions. But what I don't understand is why, when you had the talk, you didn't just get on with it. You didn't have much time then so really if you wanted marriage and he wanted a child, you should have got straight on with both of those things. You didn't have more years to wait and see if he'd propose.

He doesn't want to marry you and I don't think this relationship will last in the longer run, I think you deserve better than someone who won't marry you when it's important to you. The question is how much you want a child and are you willing to be a single parent. You risk becoming a single parent further down the line if and when the relationship ends. And you do also have the option to go it alone from day one (with a sperm donor) if you prefer.

Perhaps you would find it helpful to get some individual counselling to decide what's important to you? I really advise you to do some soul searching now to avoid any regrets further down the line.

Oh and if you do have a child with him, the child should have your surname, no doubt about it.