Red Light District

[Prawnsma32]

Just out of curiosity, how many of you would NOT mind your partner visiting the Red Light District during a stag party to Amsterdam.

I was just about to ask if any men had seen this thread... and be interested to hear their thoughts. Genuinely.

Did any of your party partake in more than just watching? Just in case your group can actually disprove my belief that that's part of the attraction?

@neverhand - none of them other than the groom in the Banana Bar was coerced into taking a bite out of a banana strategically located if you get my drift. The other times it was a mixed group and nothing even close.

I've done a few places in Bangkok with my then partner and a female friend and her partner. It's like Amsterdam a bit of a tourist attraction. There are a lot of seedy men in the Bangkok clubs but we had a good night - highlight being in a ladyboy bar chatting to the staff about how hard it is to get a bikini that fits.

I wouldn't do the Bangkok stuff again - it was quite obvious there were some really unpleasant men there

I found it one of the seediest paces I have ever been. Gangs of men roaming around the streets and drugs being sold on every corner. I didn’t feel safe there to be honest. As for the sex worker side, it looks so clinical. I don’t know how anyone can get turned on by that.

@Ssssssshhhhh - I first went to Amsterdam in the 80s - it has actually been massively cleaned up since then. Sure you will get Moroccan guys trying to sell you hash in the street but back then the main station was chocka with heroin dealers and the side streets had the schoolgirls and housewives working informally (ie not in the shop windows but on the street).

I know. Politics aside. For that to be a turn on- something missing? So clinical and grim.

Its unfortunately a tourist attraction, entertainment and laughing at those who are prob human trafficed. But as its Amsterdam i honestly think he might go there like others but not do the deed.

Yes I've heard tales like that. I suppose through for all of the people that have a good time there, immersed in but not really taking part in the seediness... there's huge abuse. It's difficult to not be part of it even if you're a willing interested observer. I have to say I was expecting to find it fascinating the first time I went as had heard so much about it. I was sickened. I've had female pals go to ping pong shows etc in Thailand. Not for titillation but for the fascination. I think that's weird, almost condoning it in a way.

@Neverhand - it's poverty in a lot of places - was taken to a nightclub in sub Saharan Africa many years ago and it was obvious that all the women in there were prostitutes. They have nothing other than - given the country I was in - HIV.

It wasn't the sort of country you would move your family to so the few European men in the joint were basically exploiting them.

Gross. Thailand etc is awful. The number of western men that pay a pittance for sex there and brag about it. I consider them less than human.

@Neverhand - know someone who was in a war torn African country in the 90s - a local girl was about 50p for the night at the time.

DH and I went through it in a taxi once. We both felt uncomfortable. A bad place for bad people and their victims.

Yes. It would make my skin crawl.

A few comments that might add to this debate or perhaps make some people's skin crawl

1. I read somewhere a while back that 10 per cent of men have used a prostitute. I've never done it but I reckon from my experience over the years that that estimate is way too low - reckon it's at least a third certainly in big cities. That doesn't mean they are habitual visitors but someone who has done it once at least once
2. Governments in Western Europe have been way too lax in policing trafficking certainly from Eastern Europe run by Albanian, Russian, Ukrainian and old Yugoslav mafia.
3. Similarly they need to stamp down on child abuse in many of our inner city areas which largely, although not exclusively, from gangs of Pakistani origin
4. Immediate prosecution for anyone organising facilitating or carrying out female circumcision

And immediate deportation for anyone not a UK national

That would be a big start

I'm not sure anyone thinks it is 10% now in reality. I think in the Uk there's research that says 20% - 25% so one in 5. They live all amongst us. I expect you're right about cities. Will differ with location, age, demographic, job, peers.

How come you haven't? And what about your mates/colleagues... any insight?

In other countries it differs widely. I think Thailand, Japan it's the vast majority. So demand varies culturally. I expect too that's why some men have done it as a one off in Thailand or Amsterdam - seems almost the norm, but haven't back "home". When in Rome?

You other comments might be controversial but I think there's some truth there. Unpalatable though it is. However, making money or getting free sex via exploitation isn't the preserve of these men, but I expect culturally or financially the same applies as above. More the norm if your peers are doing these things - whether having sex with a vulnerable teenager or making money from sex trafficking.

I know someone who hired a "high class" "escort" at a hotel in the Uk as a one off. Apparently they were Eastern European. Of course I will never know but for all of their defence that she seemed happy , was gorgeous, funny, in control and independent etc...I can't help but suspect there could be huge exploitation behind the scenes. Who knows, and that's the point isn't it. They don't know, and don't care, really.

One of my friends recently went on a stag do to Amsterdam, group of about 10 middle aged blokes. He said they visited the red light district, but more out of morbid curiosity and obligation than any of them having any actual desire to pay for sex (he's a 40 year old virgin so I've no doubt about that). All except for one bloke in the group, who spent almost the entire time in brothels there. He was constantly sloping off from the group to pop into one, and at one point he was seen going from one brothel straight into another.

My friend was rather shocked by this blokes behaviour - not least because he's the last bloke you'd expect to be addicted to paying for sex. We're not friends with him directly, but he's someone we've both vaguely known since our school days, and now he's known as a well regarded, upstanding member of the community. A family man, happily (on the face of it) married with kids. I'm sure from his behaviour that this wasn't his first experience of paying for sex, but in Amsterdam he behaved like a kid in a sweet shop with it (excuse the terrible analogy).

So I guess it depends how well you trust your partner (and also how well you know and trust the rest of the blokes in the group). Excluding the example above - a big generalisation is that blokes tend to end up in social circles with other blokes of similar moralistic values. So you'd get one group of blokes who'd none of would ever consider using a prostitute, and another group where they nearly all would. But a lot of men in that group would get sucked in by peer pressure - if all their mates go into a brothel they're unlikely to refuse to go in as well.

@cheshirebloke Yes I think that’s well observed. I suppose stag nights are interesting as you get a bit of a mix of friends groups. I’ve heard numerous times this same story. That’s there’s often one or two who are really into it, and they’re not who you would expect. Whether that’s their behaviour in Amsterdam or in a UK strip club on a stag.

I think I understand the morbid curiosity and obligation, esp if it’s your first time there. I think you’re right - this wasn’t his first time with prostitutes. But, you do hear of those that don’t normally do this, but then what goes on in Amsterdam, stays in Amsterdam.

I know men who have done it, once or twice. Even in Thailand or the Dam. Find it odd. Almost like it has to be experienced there. I’m sure some of those men would look down on someone doing it with a street worker in the Uk. Same thing to me, but men are (mostly) weird 😂

That poor blokes wife. Wasn’t he worried someone might out him? Would it not occur to any of the group that maybe his wife should know what he was doing or is the code of honour really that strong, even if you disapprove. 🫤

@cheshirebloke It’s pretty wild the kind of men who turn out to use prostitutes. A neighbour at a trading estate had the unit next to mine, the office cabins were adjoining and seemingly separated by a single sheet of plasterboard, you could hear literally everything, including me hearing him arranging meet ups with prostitutes. This guy was young, very middle class, good looking, Boy Scout vibe, basically Kevin from Motherland but maybe late 20s and better looking. And he had a very attractive girlfriend. The mind boggles.

@ManAboutTown

Do you / did you worry if any of the women were trafficked / didn’t want to be there / on drugs etc?

How did making this thread and these conserns made you feel?

Would you date / marry a woman who worked there?
Would you be proud if you had a daughter who works there?

And also @ManAboutTown

There are a lot of seedy men in the Bangkok clubs

What’s the difference between these men and you?