Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

To think this is more than enough maintenance to raise a child? (Friend conflict)

366 replies

Bessyioo · 20/01/2023 21:49

My very close friend was left when her dc was 1. It was brutal, he was having an affair with one of our other friends in our group.

She is now paid 1,050 in child maintenance. However, all I hear is how she is on the ‘back foot’ financially as she is on her own and a lot of our conversation is about how he should be providing more as he is a high earner. She has her own home and I don’t even have a mortgage yet! I may be being sensitive as I feel i struggle financially but surely surely anyone can see that that is a lot of money and pays for everything the child needs?!

OP posts:
Sweetmotherofallthatisholyabov · 21/01/2023 18:08

She's gone from a situation where she's had two incomes and together deciding to raise a child to being in a situation where she's to raise said child on her own. That deserves sympathy. I don't blame her panicking. She's used to a certain household income and now it's dropped massively and from her perspective she still needs all the things she had before. It's been 4 months. Give her a chance to readjust.

why will the childcare costs end after a year?

C8H10N4O2 · 21/01/2023 18:10

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 17:57

I've not mentioned a single thing about her job prospects. Have you replied to the wrong post?

I've also said if it's not CMS and he's not paying enough then of course it's not okay. But I can't see it being voluntary if he's done a disappearing act.

As a woman, even with a fantastic husband, you still know you're giving your job prospects up to some degree. Because even if you're not the primary carer, people assume you are. Avoid hiring you. Think you're unreliable. Of course none of this is right but its true.
Yes as a single parent it's worse for her, but it's nothing to do with maintenance.

Show quote history

No I'm stating that as key facts you are overlooking, alongside your spurious claims that the man is paying what he has been "told to".

The fact that some men are lousy parents who don't pull their weight does not alter the fact that a single mother where the father has fucked off will have no help from a second parent at all and will see a bigger career impact that a mother who has even a modestly contributing co parent.

You are very invested in defending a man who (from the OP's actual posts) has abandoned his child.

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 18:17

Mom2K · 21/01/2023 18:06

Am I missing something here? Why are her childcare costs expected to come out of what she receives in maintenance? I'm in Canada so maybe it's different here (or maybe it even varies case by case) but I receive child support every month and according to the legal agreement we have, he was also expected to pay his share of childcare costs proportionate to his income (in addition to child support) if I needed it to work. I had to pay a share of childcare too but significantly less than him since he is the higher earner. He was expected to pay 78% of childcare/extraordinary expenses.

If that's all she gets every month including childcare costs, that's terrible.

Maintenance in the UK (if you get any) is all you get from the non-resident parent. They are not required to pay their share of childcare costs on top. So in this case the mother would receive £1k, and then need to pay everything from her income plus the £1k. Including usually around £2k for a full time nursery place and in many places a similar amount for rent, then everything else on top such as local Council tax, utilities, food.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 18:20

C8H10N4O2 · 21/01/2023 18:10

No I'm stating that as key facts you are overlooking, alongside your spurious claims that the man is paying what he has been "told to".

The fact that some men are lousy parents who don't pull their weight does not alter the fact that a single mother where the father has fucked off will have no help from a second parent at all and will see a bigger career impact that a mother who has even a modestly contributing co parent.

You are very invested in defending a man who (from the OP's actual posts) has abandoned his child.

Show quote history

I'm not overlooking them at all, but the reality is, if in fact he is not paying maintenance through the CMS, and she persues it, they will not care about this. It makes no difference, legally.

I'm really not. Perhaps read what I have actually said.

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 18:20

That's my point @Mom2K , it's an absolte joke compared to what happens in most civilised countries.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 18:21

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 18:17

Maintenance in the UK (if you get any) is all you get from the non-resident parent. They are not required to pay their share of childcare costs on top. So in this case the mother would receive £1k, and then need to pay everything from her income plus the £1k. Including usually around £2k for a full time nursery place and in many places a similar amount for rent, then everything else on top such as local Council tax, utilities, food.

Show quote history

It is not around 2k usually for nursery. In some places it is. In a lot, it's half that. Same for rent. We don't all live in the bloody South East.

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 18:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 18:30

And a large proportion of people DO live in the South East, and are allowed to speak about their experiences when others make ridiculous generalisations. Hence all of the posters pointing out to you how much it actually costs to raise a child in many parts of the country, even if it happens to be cheaper where you live. Just because you think people's headline salaries or maintenance or whatever are good, does not mean they have any spare money when you look at their costs as well. It's really not that hard to understand.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 18:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You've literally just said nursery is usually 2k. I was correcting you. I didn't misread. You said that.

Its relevant to whether we think it's a lot, but it's not really relevant to whether it's fair, as it's based on his income and nothing else, the CMS don't care about fair, or where you live, or anything else. And I'll say it again before you say something ridiculous, yes it is a shit system and yes it needs changing, but it hasn't changed yet so it is what it is unfortunately for everyone who has to use it.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 18:33

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 18:30

And a large proportion of people DO live in the South East, and are allowed to speak about their experiences when others make ridiculous generalisations. Hence all of the posters pointing out to you how much it actually costs to raise a child in many parts of the country, even if it happens to be cheaper where you live. Just because you think people's headline salaries or maintenance or whatever are good, does not mean they have any spare money when you look at their costs as well. It's really not that hard to understand.

Yes, I know. Just saying stating what something "usually" costs is bollocks because it varies wildly.

OCDmama · 21/01/2023 18:37

How did you get those figures?

Mom2K · 21/01/2023 19:22

Maintenance in the UK (if you get any) is all you get from the non-resident parent. They are not required to pay their share of childcare costs on top. So in this case the mother would receive £1k, and then need to pay everything from her income plus the £1k. Including usually around £2k for a full time nursery place and in many places a similar amount for rent, then everything else on top such as local Council tax, utilities, food.

Omg that's terrible 😢

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 19:28

Yes. It's horrendous and the main reason why we have such high child poverty rates: the majority of that child poverty is in single parent households - almost all women - left to fund everything while men pay little or nothing, and the state does nothing to set fair contribution levels or even enforce he existing ones that are a pittance. And then you have people on this thread saying £1k is too much, because many men get away with paying a fraction of that so it's normalised. It's disgusting.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 19:42

Not sure anyone has said it's too much.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 19:43

And let's face it, a lot of men (and women) simply do not earn enough to pay £1000 a month, do they? So then what?

ChillysWaterBottle · 21/01/2023 19:45

I'm shocked people think an absentee father paying £1k a month for the mother to raise their child is a lot or something she should be grateful for. A lot of women get less, because their deadbeat exes are low earners or scumbags who don't declare. But that doesn't make it ok. The standards people have for deadbeat men on here are just so low. OP's poor friend - one mate who ran off with her partner and one who seems quite self-absorbed and frankly petty. I feel for her.

ChillysWaterBottle · 21/01/2023 19:46

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 19:28

Yes. It's horrendous and the main reason why we have such high child poverty rates: the majority of that child poverty is in single parent households - almost all women - left to fund everything while men pay little or nothing, and the state does nothing to set fair contribution levels or even enforce he existing ones that are a pittance. And then you have people on this thread saying £1k is too much, because many men get away with paying a fraction of that so it's normalised. It's disgusting.

I agree completely.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 19:49

Out of interest then how much should they be paying? Because as we have discovered, there is no set amount that it costs to raise a child.

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 19:51

I really can't help you if you're going to play dumb.

Nothing "dumb" about not understanding the following exchange, because it made no sense.

I said:
Even the US system is better than here, with more sensible contribution levels and properly enforced. It's not difficult. It's not that nobody has thought of the idea. It's that people have abhorrent views and there is no pressure from the public to change it, because too many people have views like the ones you've expressed where it's fiiiiine for a man to walk off and not pay his fair share. And CMS rates - even when paid - are nowhere near that.

You quoted that post and said:
Stop lying! I've said he's paying what he's been told to. Which he is.

And I said:
What?

Because your response seemed to have nothing to do with my comment, my comment contained no lies, and in any case as others have pointed out to you nowhere has the OP said that this maintenance level was based on a court order or CMS anyway so we don't know if anybody "told" him that is what he should pay.

And then you called me dumb.

Okaaaay.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 19:52

You said I think it's fine for a man not to pay his fair share. I don't think that, hence, you're lying.

Sleepless1096 · 21/01/2023 20:10

Her ex gets to retain a huge chunk of his income for himself, work as much as he wants, no childcare costs, no evening and weekend childcare, no sick days, no school drop-offs and pick-ups... He gets to walk out of his responsibilities for £1k per month and continue life unencumbered by his child.

Failing to see how she's got the better bargain here.

Shopaholicnik51 · 21/01/2023 21:41

You're a bad friend, you should be supporting her rather than being put out by how much she is getting from her ex. You have no idea how much it takes to raise a child, so really I don't think you are entitled to pass judgement oh and BTW you do come across as jealous of her money

OhIdoLike2bBesideTheSeaside · 21/01/2023 22:26

None of my friends get £1000 a month maintenance and most that are separated have 2/3 kids

She's very lucky to get a good amount so many men dodge the system and don't pay or don't declare their earnings properly it could be a lot worse!!

NocturnalClocks · 22/01/2023 03:43

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 19:52

You said I think it's fine for a man not to pay his fair share. I don't think that, hence, you're lying.

🙄🙄🙄

Oh dear.

Lying?! 🤣🤣🤣

Read your own posts back.

And then calling people "dumb", and then getting their posts deleted that didn't contain any personal insults, unlike your own.

I won't be responding to you again.

NocturnalClocks · 22/01/2023 03:45

OhIdoLike2bBesideTheSeaside · 21/01/2023 22:26

None of my friends get £1000 a month maintenance and most that are separated have 2/3 kids

She's very lucky to get a good amount so many men dodge the system and don't pay or don't declare their earnings properly it could be a lot worse!!

This is entirely my point. Just because many men get away with even worse because the system is broken does not make somebody "lucky" that a man pays an amount that wouldn't even cover half of a full time nursery bill in much of the country, and therefore he is still paying nothing towards his half of the rest of the child's essential living costs.